daeron

thats 140K achieved last night. boo-yah, but it made it all the way to 139,958 with the factory starter.. it died on me before but i resurrected it by cleaning the armature and brush assembly and re-assembling it.. gave me another 20K miles, with lots of on and off.... so I had no complaints. I have spent the last several weeks thinking i needed to do somethnig special for the car for her 140th... and i did. I installed a starter relay circuit, because my starter wasnt clicking on due to resistance buildup in the switch.. junkyard fix of the highest caliber. hey, it was all i could afford. I would have loved to give her a five speed and get rid of the uber-kweer automatic (just a lifelong prejudice against torque converters, having to do with push starting as a matter of fact.. grr..) so if I am rambling then ignore me.. but I'm glad about my upgrade:headbang:

its now official; for lunch, Chef Daeron is serving Relayed Starter Control Circuit, with a side of blackened Shrinkwrap. Bon appetit!

i wanted to minimize power load into the cabin, and maintain a stock look at least.. this car is a pizza deliverer, so it gets started like 20+ times a day sometimes..... that alot of juice to run thru wires, any way it gets cut. the shorter the hot wire, the better in my book. thanks for the input though, wiring is always fun

nice work. my GL-10 has maplights right there, integrated with the sunroof controls.. so that is ONE thing i have that alot of you folks dont. of course, you all get four wheel drive, and manual transmissions, and dual ranges, and real gauges (i hate the digidash!!) and turbochargers with wastegates and knock sensors and spider intakes, but I got a MAPLIGHT in MY car....so THERE............ sorry, I got a little carried away..... but like i said, nice work, it looks stock.

well i got a bunch of relays, and several plugs at the junkyard. I went ahead and snagged a both the relays mounted behind the passenger strut tower, along with plugs out of one car, and then spares of both relays out of another.. (late 80s GL/loyale spfi) I also nabbed some bosh relays and mounts out of a bmw.. i nabbed a bunch of the relays, ive got hella 40A relays that Im gonna use for now. does it really matter which side of the relay the wires all go to? i know i have to have my big hot wire on the right pair of terminals, but it shouldnt matter which way it goes, right? as for the switched power (from the key) and the ground, they should be interchangeable as well?? the relays have diagrams on the side of them, and im fairly certain i can tell which prongs are the hi power ones... (ive got one hella relay where they are actually FRIGGIN huge..) but for anyone who cares, the bosh relay brackets can be found in a late 80s-90s BMW 3 series, they seem to mostly have three slide off relay plugs on the driver shock pillar... and the relays abound in any VW, audi, or BMW.. just your standard sqaure bosch relay. those were the only ones i found that reliably gave me an amperage rating, so its a good bit of knowledge to have if you ever do any wiring for lights, etc.. there was a kit in pep boys for 20 bucks with a swtich, the wiring, and the relay.. i paid five bucks for two relays (token, the rest was in my pocket ) and i am golden.

I still dont see why i cannot just take positive battery voltage, from the starter end of the battery cable, where its bolted onto the solenoid terminal.. and use this to power the relay? i have 14 gage wire, thats adequate too then? if 14 gage is enough to run it from the battery then I will just do that, I thought I would need to go higher (10-12 at least) i also just installed my new ground strap.. it was the old positive battery cable before it got replaced due to a bad (bolt on-and off) terminal, but it had good connections to the two wire lugs on the ends, so i connected that to one of my strut mount bolts, and the other end to the battery ground terminal on the starter (the little piggyback thingy where the ground cable gets bolted to.) So I guess I'm set. Using the screwdriver starter to get her to the parts store and back home, it seems to work reliably enough. and maybe after the short drive the starter will crank when its time to drive home. If the relay is that expensive in the store, I will just get the heat shrink tubing or something.. i need some more sundry supplies however i do this. the screwdriver starter simplifies things, it means i can drive around myself Thanks for all the comments by the way.. this was certainly not beyond my scope, I just didnt have the necessary knowledge on the amperage needed to mock it all up reliably. Chances are its gonna end up with a junkyard relay soldered in better than they wouldve done at fuji heavy industries, just like GD said.. but we shall see.

okay, once more I am about to embark on a search, but I shall ask the question first.. How do I go about selecting a relay to install, and what size wire and fuse do I run to the relay from the battery?? In other words, how much amperage are we talkin here??? I have found the following diagram courtesy of Skip here on the board, which was essentially what I had in mind... once again, that diagram is gratefully re-linked here; the original artist to thank is Skip. Credit where Credit is due. My idea was originally to run my live line into the relay, from the starter end of the positive battery cable... is this a bad idea?? even if I install a fuse? I didn't see any theoretical problems with it but I am not all-knowing.. plus I fugured that the shorter distance to run would allow me to get away with a smaller gage wire... but I wasn't planning on scrimping. I just figured a 10 gage would function better on that short run than the long run from the battery terminal. I suppose the best course might be to hit the junkyard to find a relay on a bracket in a vehicle somewhere i can use.. but I would like to find something a little less ghetto than that... of course, its going to cost me, I'm sure. Maybe when i go to the parts store they will be able to answer my questions? thanks for the help.

thanks for the tip, and I plan on adding grounds at several points.. but im going for the relay solution. its simple, and complete. a band-aid fix of the highest degree.

yah i didnt mean to mock you or anything, apologies if my "tone" wasnt humorous enough.. I had honestly assumed it was a ZX, as i described its virtually impossible in a first gen Z. My main purpose was to laud the wonderful engineering that can prevent it.. but in 79 they had locks just like on the soob.. if you lock it and shut it, it unlocked.. you had to lift the handle while closing door to lock it.. but i dont understand why not have the doors totally unable to lock unless fully shut, like the old Zcars. It makes sense on any vehicle, and it is NOT an inconvenience in the slightest, especially with a modern remote lock/unlock on the key fob....

none of you with the CEL that "comes back after a few minutes of driving" have your green test mode/timing connectors connected do you?? because the ecu uses the timing connectors to enter diagnostic mode.. you plug in, and rev engine above 2k for over forty seconds, the CEL comes on.. or maybe it flashes. maybe its a dumb question. but maybe im catching a mistake?? just a thought.

i have a sunroof, and the sunroof controls have small directional maplights pointing down towards the driver's and the front passenger's laps... probably those are your maplights.

davalos: its a breeze, i shouldnt have had any worries about it.. I have had it off two or three times now... the hardest part is extracting the old starter from behind the heater and AC hoses, and getting the new one in.. of course, make sure you disconnect the positive battery cable first. any problems I had, I had because of a faulty circuit that i KNEW I had an issue with... I just hadnt realized it was as simple as installing a relay.

awesome. I just got to a point in my reading where I decided to come back and post, asking whether it might be best to use a relay, switched by the wire that now runs the solenoid.... and then run good hot power thru the relay and into the solenoid. so... its just what i said, right? my stock plug has been replaced with a yellow spade terminal, but i can use that plug to switch a relay that i should be able to pick up from my neighborhood parts store. I can run the wiring to power the relay.. but what sort of amperage are we talking here? need specs. thanks GD, you had my idea before I did. however.. would the installation of a relay eliminate my need to worry over the quality of my connection to the fusible link block? the occasional click click start has been my only issue..

okay, this is NOT a new subject to me. I have been around the block hunting for magic wires in a starter circuit before.. I have the 89 FSM (it features retracting seatbelts and a few other features i dont have on my 87, but it should be enough). I have a harbor freight multimeter. My fusible link block has a crummy wire going into it from the battery cable. I have re soldered the connection on the bottom to the best of my ability, which isnt saying MUCH but im not a total hack either.... is there any way to take the block apart to ensure a positive connection?!?? I know i need to run a good heavy ground cable from the battery to chassis... i would like to also ground it to the radiator. should I be able to run a strap straight from the negative battery cable to one of the fan shroud bolts on the radiator? it seems so to me... but i figured i would throw the idea out to get picked on if I'm wrong. I am also feeling alot of heat in the wires coming from the keyswitch. We arent talking broiling my leg or anything, but it gets hot as I am trying to start the car.. I suppose I should mention that I just put a JY starter in (tests fine, works fine SOMEtimes) and I have a good strong charge on the battery. Ive jiggled around the link block, and I jiggled the crimp connection joining the molded battery terminal wire and the soldered fusible link block wire together...and it started. I left it running. Got home tonight, and turned it off.. started it right up. Let it run a few moments.. cut off, tried to start, click, click... no werkie. so, my mission (i have no choice but to accept it) is to hunt down my magic wire/poor connection in the circuit.. I am searching away on the forum archives, and I am reading my wiring diagram.. but basically, there is a wire powered thru the fusible link block that is routed through my keyswitch, and gives the solenoid terminal the signal to engage. If anyone wants to save me some seaching and give me a link to a breakdown on the ignition switch, that would be super.. but not vital. I am already searching as you read this. I just thought I would start a thread now, and get any comments I can, beginning now.. and when i hit a snag I shall return here for updates. I have already been informed there is no relay.. does the current for the solenoid wire go thru the fusebox? Like I said, I know what kind of task lies ahead and I am already doing my research.. Im just fishing for any help, the easy way so thanks in advance.

well, wrapup post.. the starter i had resembled my datsun starters. large motor housing inline with the ear, eccentric solenoid about 2" in diameter that the battery cable and hot wire go to. the starter im replacing it with is different.. its got what appears to be an offset motor housing like a datsun gear reduction starter, and about that size.. and the solenoid seems to be built into a squarish aluminum housing that is inline with the ear.. IE, the gear that is forced to mesh with the flywheel lines up with the solenoid, axially... not the motor.. so it looks like a gear reduction starter where the solenoid has been hidden in the gear housing, behind the gears... thats the only conclusion i can come to.. there is not external, eccentric cylinder to identify as the solenoid... anyhow, i swapped it in and had no problems.. until the 4th or 5th start. clikc, click, click... popped hood, jiggled the line going into fusible link block.. managed to start it, and then once more with a good start, then back to the click click.... so, for the continuation, see my new post.

dent seems OK... but a pic of the sealing surface would be needed.. if its not pristine (or close) then there may be issues but if its nice and shiny... should be OK. let us know when you find out :- )

all the same.. or all interchangeable??? because this one is almost certainly different. Im getting a ride up to my car in fifteen minutes either way, but a little reassurance would be welcome :- )

no ones been that blunt yet :- ) thanks, ill find the lowest mileage car then.

how did you lock your keys in a Z?????!!!!! it must have been a ZX (sorry to be anal) because all the 70s Zs (maybe not 77-78 280s, they changed the doors a little bit but i thought id checked that..) from 240 to 280 were almost impossible to lock the keys in the car!! the dorrs simply will not lock unless they are shut.. so you either have to be inside the car, with the door shuit, locking it from the inside.. or outside, with the door shut, locking it with the key. the only way to lock them in is to lock both doors with the hatch open, AND THE HATCH BUTTON LOCKED already, and toss the keys in the hatch. the 280ZX i believe removed this unique feature of the 70s datsuns... IMPOSSIBLE to lock your keys in. simply by making it impossible to lock the door when it was open.

i dont think i have any riveting tools... not that i would want to use anyhow. ive done some riveting at a job i had fabricating hurricane proof sliding glass doors.. and I had an air-powered hydraulic rivting gun. That gun did break once or twice, and I had to do it the old-fashioned way.. NOT my cup of tea. I am a small guy, a weakling to be honest.. and my hands just cant take that kind of exertion repeatedly.. ESPECIALLY not with the tools at my disposal. I'm a nuts-and-bolts kind of guy anyhow.. and theres no such thing as certain. I may have a different soob in the future (this ones rusty) and i may want it on that... who knows? thanks for the thought though.. I may contradict myself and use rivets after all, we shall see. good to know what all is a need to do, whats a not to do, and what i *could* do.

okay. this is NO big deal to me, as a job... but i am trying my hardest to make EVERYTHING go as planned tomorrow. my starter finally died on me today. It died a few months back, and I took it apart, cleaned it.. the brushes were nominal but I put it back together anyhow and it worked like brand new!! for another 20K miles. today, no more.. it was acting like it might be a dying battery, so when i had to go to work (pizza delivery, yikes) i got a spare battery (of questionable virtue and short recent charge, it usually holds good though and it was charged <2 weeks ago...) and went to work anyhow. i didnt turn the car off after sunset, until i had time to swap batteries... and no dice. the starter is DEFINITELY dead, im making it jump itself over with a screwdriver between hot terminal and solenoid terminal, while hitting the solenoid and/or motor housing with a hammer.. PRETTY sure im hearing the grinding of the destroyed brushes. Anyhow... im going to the JY tomorrow for a starter. any ea automatic, right? i have 2wd, i think they may all be pushtbutton awd autos at my JY.. but im pretty sure any auto starter would work. worst case scenario, i think i may be able to frankenstein in the parking lot but my big question... what else MIGHT be fried?? i tried to use 2 sets of jumper cables to maintain a connection to my car while changing the battery.. (the stereo tuning buttons work rarely, but the memory stays fine... until it gets cleared from no battery ) so i was wondering if there may be a starter relay (i hear a click thats not from the starter when i hit the key, where is it?) that couldve burnt out.. should i grab it out in the boneyard, just in case? thanks for your thoughts, i need as much feedback as i can in the next 12-24 hours or so, because im trying to avoid getting up to the car, and NOT being able to fix it. theoretically, this should be a 30 minute job... its JUST a freakin' starter, right? ive had it in and out several times already, thats not my problem.. my problem is... GREMLINS!!! which ones might bite me?

do a search... it has come up in the past month, in a link in one of the threads, i promise.. i dont keep a link handy because i dont want to be funneling people to someone else's computer unsolicited. maybe im being a bit fussy about that, but it can be found. its only part of it, but its the most important part.

it is GREAT to hear someone with MilesFox's reputation say that if the covers pop snugly back into place, they are not likely to fall off... granted, its taken with a HUGE grain of salt, but it is good to know that a situation has arisen where it has held

wonderful discussion. at this opint the craftsman in me HAS to say that i at no point actually wanted to use sheetmetal screws.. but i was trying to illicit some discussion on the subject. thanks for the catch on a bit of paint onf the areas i drill. I'll probably go to harbor freight to get a good holesaw for a socket cutout, and just use some SS machinescrews (maybe allen heads, i'll see) and some locknuts. I'm not planning on removing it, and I don't know if I'll ever even USE it.. but the car needs something back there to look right, in my mind.. the profile is the loyale's best view I think, and the rack completes it.. if only this car had a jawline to speak of!! I keep looking at the front end and dreaming of mocking up a fiberglass bumper cover/air dam to knock a mold off of....it would look better than a late 80's maxima, almost take on a squared off , trapeziodal headlighted 510/2002/80's BMW 3-series sorta look.... but as it is its just a simpsons-style overbite:eek:

+1, your original unit may be just as good as the other junkyard solenoid..