TeamCF

Well they are working on more "parks" for us. But then the problem will be that we'll all be crammed into ORV parks and that in itself has problems. Don't know that they'll get rid of us completely though. We do have some organizations fighting for us. But they mostly focus on the high exposure trails. Things like the Moab area, Rubicon, ect. What we gotta do is is let them know about our little corners of the woods.

So I take it a level B road is kind of "uinmaintained". We have some of those. Lolo Pass near me has a fun one with some nice waterbars that are high on one side almost a river on the dug out side. But it only makes for 4 neat little obsticals then it's just another gravel road. I wish I could get my Soob to MI and run down some of the fire roads up north. My dad has property up there and you need 4WD (or just gun it and jump stuff, did it with a rental car once, hehe, bashed the floor in on a rock, needless to say I'm on Enterprise's black list now, that little Pontiac was kind of a mess, still drove fine though). Lots of cool sandy service roads with pits to play in here and there. And as its all "roads" they are proly not going anywhere, or the gas companies can't get to thier wells. (two of those on my dad's property) They do still want you to have an ORV permit on your vehicle though.

Yeah go up far enough and you'll see the other "closed to OHV, watershed" sign at the other end. Then you can play. Ya turn left at the no shooting sign. (you see the backside and it has some b-day party spraypainted on it) And then make your next right after the bridge. Keep going aways there is the gravel pit (you know it) and further up there is the "road" to the top of Squaw (more like a milder version of Firebreak 5 at this point). And keep going and going and you end up south of Gov. Camp. The road is closed due to a washout. But it's Soobable and the only closed sign is at the Gov Camp end. Proly just to keep the tourists safe rather than no one is allowed on it. I don't know if I know the fire tower you are talking about. I tried to go to one over this last summer, I spotted on google earth. I went down the right road. But it had a big orange sign after awhile saying no trespassing. I never was able to get to the tower. :-\ That one was near the intersection after the bridge on the way to the gravel pit. Ya go straight instead of right and there's a little road off to the right that goes down through a clearcut. I missed the sign on my way in but it's up in a tree just before you go out of the woods into the clearcut. Saw it on my way out. it was dark, lights caught it just right. I didn't get there as a river blocked the trail after going back into the woods. And being it was dark and I was alone I figured best not to try it.

Heres a link. Not here but in Cali, but it's happening all over the country. This is just an example of a meeting on the whole subject. http://www.ravenoffroad.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=3256 This is the part that affects all of us wheelers: "For decades, OHV users drove the forest pretty much as they pleased, following both designated routes and hundreds of miles of unmapped user-created trails. Many of these user-created trails led to dispersed campsites used by hunters, fishermen and horseback riders. Now comes a national mandate, straight from the Secretary of Agriculture, instructing forest supervisors such as Cole to get a better grip on OHV use. From now on, all trails must be part of a designated system. And for user-created trails to become part of that system, each must satisfy a checklist of conditions ranging from environmental and cultural impacts to whether the recreational opportunity they provide is diverse enough." I have a feeling that what we think is going to be a another long buracratic process that we won't have to worry about for years..... is gonna start happening fast.

We'll have to check it out. Well. A dude at the FS office in Estacada (I did not talk to him, a guy on the XJ forum, I browse everywhere for wheeling, stopped in today on his way up there for some snow wheeling and asked) says all the forest areas around Goat and outside of Estacada are closed to wheeling with plans (yeah that'll take 20 years) to create a new official trail system. B freakin S. Hopefully it was just some eco-freak working there and told him that cause he hates wheelers. I'm thinking. Unless they plan on 24 hr. patrols up there. The wheeling will go on. It's just too popular and I'm sure 90% of the people who think of heading up there never check to see if they are allowed. I mean giant groups of high schoolers in 'Yotas are common up there. And you know how kids are, they proly don't check in at the office. Almost every time I've went up at night there's a group partying at the top. (amazing there is no trash up there, at least they seem to pack it out) Only problem with that is it'll proly piss 'em off and we'll never get "real" trails. Then you got crap like this. http://www.stopthrillcraft.org/index.htm We have to fight back. And it starts by being educated and responsible about where we put our tires. This is what is going on in our area as well. But ours is not going to be released for the public to see until spring 2009, and will be decided on fall 2009. At that time they will pick clubs and such to help with OHV trail building and maintinace around the Mt.Hood Forest. That is if some hugger group does not get the majority vote and kick us out for good. Example of another districts travel management plan and options: http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/w-w/recreation/ohv/trav-mgt-newsletter-9-08.pdf

The top gate has been closed all year. they seem to open it in the winter. proly not wanting to deal with opening it in the snow if they need to work on the towers. Yeah I kinda stopped hitting up the rock quarry at the bottom. Went in once a few weeks ago and lost a trim piece climbing that back hill. It's all dug out on one side from some yahoo with an open diff in 2WD or something. and when I stuck it and slid back down (it was greasy) I hit the back corner of the bumper on the ground so hard it popped the trim on the body. Didn't think to look and realized it was gone when I got home. Lolo really has no actual trails, all roads like you say. There are a few up there (Found some 4WD trails on an old map). And I found how to get to them. But concrete blocks the size of minivans are blocking the way. And unless a Soob can climb a vertical cliff face. no way to get around them. And yeah the "trail" up Squaw is considered a road. So it's cool.

Yeah La Dee has been closed for awhile mainly due to erosion. But like I said there is a plan to cunstruct new trails systems in several areas around here. I'll have to find it on the FS website but two of the areas had class two trails planned. (the trails are already layed out on planning maps which I have, just not cut in or legal yet) And La Dee is one of the areas. Squaw, I believe, is past the La Dee area and still open. I've been up it once. That was a fun trail, get's kinda offcamber, deep, and slick at the top. Goat had various trails closed off by the logging. Last time I went up all the gates were reopened and a few trails you could not get to for the past year or so are still there back in the west side up tight to the mountain. I would like to hit then up in the spring if it's ok to do so. I think the biggest thing is we are going to just check. The fun times of just turning off the road onto whatever trail we want are coming to an end and is the very thing that is going to get ALL our trails taken away. I wish that was not true, but that's just how it is. We live in one of the biggest tree hugger states around. And us and our Soobs are one of the biggest evils in the world to them. And they are very active politicly in stopping us. We behave. They back down some. We go willy nilly, they start locking gates. Sad time for wheelers. Yeah there is almost too much snow now. Even Wildcat is already impossible for my Soob. Pics came back from the 4x4 group's hangover run up there on the first and I'm glad I decided to skip it. I would have just been getting pulled around like a sled. All I've heard from veteran wheelers is that Goat has been an un-inforced off limits area for a very long time. For all we know it'll stay that way. And as popular as it is it would seem they don't care about us being up there. I've even went to the top once and when I got there. There was what I always feared seeing. Trucks with official markings on them. And uniforms. Amazingly the only thing they said to me was "Nice view huh?" I about pissed myself. The gate was open though so thats proly why they left me alone. After that I started only going up at night. And that was the only time I've seen patrol trucks up around Goat. (Also there have been city of portland trucks up there with service crews.) Seen em a few times out on La Dee. Afterall. They put these scary laws in effect cause they don't have the money or manpower to properly mark trails and have patrols. So they just say no to everything and hope we listen. I'm just hoping that does not change.

Good evolution of a wheeler Soob. Mines on 2 years now. As much as I want to move up the wheeler foodchain. I think I'm gonna try to make it go for many more. I look at picking up a different rig but can't help but think of all the awesome times I've had in it.

Makin' some progress.

^^^^ Exactly. Though in the many trips I've taken my list of breakage is such: 1 brake line, 1 ripped out front strut, 1 bent front suspension arm. (not related to the strut) Other than that I have only gotten various dents, scrapes, rubs, ect. SC told me I got lucky and must have gotten a good Soob that's not showing it's age. I can hit all the same stuff as everybody else on an outing and others break thier stuff. My Soob tends to go home uglier (depending on how you look at trail rash) but in one piece. Even watched a built up Jeep blow a transfercase on a hillclimb out at TSF. Just to make him and his "I Drive a Bronco *spits out chew*" friend get all butthurt I climbed it twice while they were trying to hook it up to get towed out. After they told me there was no way a Subaru could climb it. Then joined the rest of my party and we hit more trails. But like I said I know my time is coming. My Soob is getting more tattered every trip. Like has been said it's all about knowing when to gas it and when to let off. But the time will come where I'll just have to gas it and snap.

A good site. http://www.oregonrecreationcoalition.com/ You know. I've been told of the new law. I remember seeing things about it months ago and was worried then. But I'm searching and can't find it now. Proly buried in some forest service website and hard to get to. Best bet though would be to hit up the Estacada Ranger station and ask. And it was not 30,000 some odd acres around Mt. Hood. It was 128,400 acres of wilderness area added. Meaning that many taken away from possible wheeling areas.

This is a new 2009 law. The info came from a FS rep. The guy who got the fine I do not know. And I guess it happened a few years ago. It was used as an example that happened of what they can do to you. (he proly did get caught on the wrong side of a gate or on a trail known to be closed) I do know of a guy that got arrested in the La Dee Flat area behind the RV park though, he was wheeling in the mud pits along the road. That was the last time I was out that way. And that area IS listed as off limits to wheelers, has been for a few years on the Forest Service website. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/recreation/ohv/index.shtml#regs But people still wheel the piss out of that area. (I have been back there a few times myself, I admit) And that is why this new law went into effect. They say nothing about the Goat area though. But they also say: "If it's not MARKED open, then it is to be considered closed. No sign is the same as a closed sign." Meaning if a trail does not have a sign like the ones out at TSF, then it's closed. I'm just passing it along. Alot of areas in Oregon are getting "Wilderness Area" designation here soon as well. That makes them an environmentally protected area and no motorized vehicles are allowed travel on. There's like 30,000 or so acres in the Mt. Hood forest that is getting it this year alone. And just because it's Federal land does not mean we automatically have the right to wheel it. (The Goat area is state and BLM) The white house lawn is federal land. We can't make trails there. (extreme example, but makes the point) And public land does not mean we are allowed to wheel it either. I talked to a guy that wheels and keeps up on the tree huggers for the sake of fighting them to keep trails open. He was saying that the average Environmentalist puts in more time and research to getting places closed and stopping us from wheeling than the average one of us puts into working on our rigs to go wheeling. All that means is we gotta get orginized and fight for our trails, or we will be stuck in the few ORV parks around. The good thing is that there are several projects going on right now to open legal trails in the estacada area. Like I said in another post. The La Dee Flats area is going to have class 2 (thats us) trails built there. But until they give the OK and print out the maps. it's a no no. And they may just chase ya out. They may just give you a talking to and a warning. Or it may be the max punishment. Depends on the ranger. And really how often do you see them up there anyway? Not much. Though I have seen the Forest Law Enforcment running around a few times I was out that way. And they did slow down and stare me down hard. Good thing I was just on a road. I. Don't think I'm gonna take the chance anymore. For all we know the new law will be an excuse for more patrols and quick cash. And you know me. I'll still be up there.(Goat) But 90% of the time I don't wheel out that way until late on weeknights. Long after all the rangers have went to bed. I've been up there in the daytime so few times.... It's amazing we run into each other up there so often. Anyhoo. When all this thaws out we gotta PLAN a wheeling trip. Get Greg and Chaz out too. As I think we've yet to get the whole group out at the same time. From a club site, this can point ya in the right direction and know what to ask about: "The forest sevice is in the process of their travel managment plan. I would highly suggest someone from your club contact them about the trails in your area. As we were told, if they're not on their maps, and listed as open (after the planning / discussion time) then they are either gone (legally) or closed. BUT! They plan on re-evaluating their plan yearly, so trails can get added or removed every year for numerous reasons." The "travel managment plan" I need to hit up an office for all the info and maps I can get regarding it.

I thought it was a federal thing. But it may just be a OR thing. I'd have to look back into it. All I know is yeah it's a big bummer. If it's not MARKED open, then it is to be considered closed. Thing is. There are proly plenty of places around here that they don't care if you wheel it. But if it is not a marked trail you have to stay off. And we would get more marked ones, but the FS is streched too thin as it is, I doubt they will spend the cash and time to go and mark trails for us. It's alot cheaper and easier to just say say "live with what you got, stay the heck out of everywhere else." It really comes down to if you want to wheel, become involved in the system to keep your trails open. Plenty of info and such can be had by your local Forest Service office. And they can get you in touch with the people that can give permissions to open a new "official" trail once you have your plan approved. It really is "If you want to wheel, you have to be willing to put the time, and money into planning, building, and maintaining the trails." (unless of course the area you want to wheel already has a group taking care of it, then just respect thier hard work.) I'm getting involved with a 4x4 club soon that is adopting some trails out at TSF. It'll be our responsibilty to take care of the trails and make sure they are in good shape each year to get the approval to stay open. Canopener is our first trail.

This is news about trails. So I figured it be posted here. Was just on another board and was reminded of the fact. As of 2009. If a trail on Forest Service land is not marked "Open" Then it is closed. If it is unmarked, it is closed. (unless you checked in with the local FS office and found out otherwise that day) So this means for me, that everything up Lolo Pass. All around Goat Mt. and really everything except the TSF area. Is now closed to wheeling. Like I said it does not have to have a closed sign to be closed. This is sad. But even more sad would be to be like the guy that got a $5,000 fine and his rig taken away. Not just impounded, it's no longer his. For drivng down an unmarked trail. Not sure of other states. But that's how it is here in Oregon now. It is now our responsibility (always kinda was, but now it's ENFORCED) to know what is wheelable and what is not, with or without signs. Quote from another site from a guy who works with the Forest Service to get more trails opened: "Please be careful, On a "Criminal Trespassing" charge they can and sometimes will take your rig, fine you big time and throw you in the clink to think about it. Not to mention it looks really bad on those who try and keep areas open / get them open!" Guess my last trip up Goat. Was my LAST trip. Goat is a mix of BLM and FS land. So for us north Oregon wheelers TSF area is it for future wheeling. At least around here. Until the new Hood River trails are done. Legal areas can be found here. http://oohva.org/ (go to the bottom, links down there) A nice little site where you can select what class OHV you want to ride/drive And an area and it shows you whats what. http://atv.prd.state.or.us/places.php And here is a little info. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/recreation/ohv/index.shtml#regs (La Dee Flat is the area behind the RV park past Estacada for those who know it. Closed now, I had read there are supposed to be new class 2 trails being built there soon. ) Sucks to be a buzzkill. I wonder now if I'll ever get that trim piece back that I tore off up on Goat now (I know where I did it but didn't realize it came off til I was home).... Midnight recon run!

hehe I almost bought a 4WD Tercel. Then I spotted the Soob and it was cheaper so I grabbed it instead. (dodged that bullet) I think I may just lift it. I wheel like my gas pedal is made of eggshells so breaking one off road will proly never be a problem. Anyone whose wheeled with me knows I get into the technical finesse of it and get bored with the all out pedal to the metal crap. Going full on with SAS front and rear with a t-case. would take it off the trails too long. I'd feel the need, pick up a Jeep or something, and after that the Soob would sit and rot, family would get pissed, (they are already kinda miffed about my 3rd car sitting around, the RX7 thats not street legal) it would get hauled of the the JY. :-\ I don't want that to happen. So in light of everything. (I am still looking at solid axle rigs on CL but I'll proly keep the Soob in the end) I'm gonna proly lift it. Better tires. GM alt. And fix the leaks, my headliner and driver seat is soaked with all the rain. And beef up the unibody. After that last TSF run my doors are out of alignment and the body seems to be bowed. All the rust popping does not help. :-\ (I don't think it lived out here all it's life.....) Finish my new engine and proly put it in. And pick up a few spare axles. If I have 'em on hand and DO break one. it won't be as inconvenient. Thank you to all for the info. There are a few good tidbits in here for future reference.

I've never broken one either. I'm all about finesse on the trails. Skinny pedal should be used sparingly. My Soob does good just idling around trails and when it bogs a tad gas pedal will pull it right out. But I can just feel it coming. Proly in Safeway parking lot. Really I could avoid it by just finally getting my passenger side unfroze at the wheel end. My diff seems to be offset so the driver's side, though it's all antisiezed up, will not come out until the diff is out first. (need about another 3/4" of clearance, pass side would just fall out) Then I wouldn't worry as much. Just lately when on the street it sounds like someone is beating on the driveshaft with hammers as I turn. :-\ I just have the solid axle itch these days. I historically get bored with vehicles fast. (I'm making payments on 3 different new cars rolled into my current car payment cause I kept trading in too fast and putting too many miles on them.... that was dumb....) Like I said. This is gonna be a process. Maybe I should just throw and order Scott's way, beat that axle out of there, and be happy.

Well one thing I was thinking is 510 axles for the rear. I know of a whole 510 rear suspension and drivetrain just sitting in a shed. And the u-joint axles look pretty beefy. Hey they take our LSD's, why not take thier axles? Be pretty straight forward at the diff end. but the wheel end may (or may not) take some figuring. (huh, another thought, wonder how much I could get that rear end for?....) If I was gonna go solid up front I would just do like McBrat. His current build is freakin' awesome. And then I think. Well then why not just start with a rig that already has solid axles under it? As neat as a total SAS'ed Soob would be. It's just not a project I want right now. Not when it's such a buyer's market right now for used vehicles. Cheaper to buy a decent 4x4 truck or some such thing than go gonzo on the Soob right now. And the satisfaction would be great with a monster Soob. But I'll be back on the trails faster with a ready to go rig. I'm still processing all of it (why I wanted info and ideas from the USMB peeps). So who knows which direction will be followed in the end. For all I know I'll blow the $$ building a new computer for my flight sims and I'll be wheeling my stock GL for the next 3 years.

And other parts. So I searched for a couple hours last night. (maybe I missed something) Didn't really find the info I was looking for. Found a bunch of other good info though for more elaborate rigs. So I want the lowdown. I want to put a solid rear axle in my GL. 3.900 ratio. To match the front diff. Which truck do I look for in the JY. I know plenty of guys have done it but a definitve answer I have not found. I'm not doing a transfer case. Don't want a monster Soob, just a more durable one. Just a solid rear axle with a 4" lift up front. Sadly my other option... Is to buy the other wheeler I found and am going to go look at. In that case the Soob will be retired as I'll need to sell it for $$$ to blow on the new wheeler. I recently decided that I do not want to be a part of the axle breaker club. And I feel it 's going to happen soon. One of those choices is going to help with keeping me out of it. What it boils down to is I saved up enough cash to make a change in my wheeling. And stock rear Soob drivetrain will NOT be part of it. I could SJR and Swamper my GL right now. But the first axle that breaks will proly piss me right off. For me wheeling is to be more of a relaxing thing. Not constant breakage. Honestly. If I was in Scoobyclimbs shoes and broke an axle 3 of the 4 first times I took my new hatch out. It would proly be scrap. That's just excessive in my book. And I've been thinking alot about it lately. My rig progress is halted for reliability due to the weak rear end. I don't want to get to the point I'm throwing $50 at the back of my Soob every time I wheel it. That'll cost me $100 a week! So yeah. No himhawin' around. I want to know what I need to go get and about how much to expect to spend to make it happen. Simple. I don't know what the final outcome will be for me. But a definitive list of parts could make this conversion easier for future Soob wheelers as well. Wait. I might have just found what I needed. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=86691&highlight=solid+axle+ratios But still feel free to chime in with ideas.

Buggers are heavy full of fluid though. I keep gutting my Soob out to lighten it up . Plus I have a bum shoulder (shatterd scapula years ago, bothers me enough it has cost me good jobs in the past) and they are a pain for me to change in other than optimal conditions. Thinkin' I'll just live with open for now. This time of year the Soob somewhat becomes the DD. So I need convenience and reliability. And it sounds like someone beating my driveshaft with wrenches back there on the street right now around corners. (Axle frozen in good, heat didn't even work, other one only comes out when the diff is out, too long to clear/diff is mounted off-center) The best solution. Solid axle it.

Been discussed so much. But yeah. A rear locker that is selectable is #1 on my list. I'm actually gonna be removing my welded because as much as the traction is nice. I'm sick and tired of the pain in the a** it is and dread the breakage of stuff. I'll just pick my lines better.

I worry about it sometimes as well. The U-Pull It near me, 9 times out of 10.... has no EA81's in thier lot anymore. Last year there were tons. When they do now it's almost always FWD. :-\ (And I almost always need something 4WD specific) But it seems I always find something that will fit somewhere. So I don't lose any sleep over it. I have a spare engine, but the 315,000 miler in it will proly outlive the body at this point. I know a guy that just buys whole cars off of CL. Then parts them out and keeps what he wants. Says in most cases it chaeper that way as he can sell enough off of it to pay for the purchase of the car. So his parts only cost him some time. What we have going for us that has been mentioned is the interchangability of them (with tweaking). We'll all be sportin' WRX drivetrain in our old GL wagons at some point.

Me and half of "Team Cat Flap" (what did yout think TeamCF stood for?) TCF was my RallyCross thing a couple years ago. I'm the one on the right.

My 83 GL does it bad since I flattend the last CAT on a rock and removed it. It also has a "turbo" style muffler. (one of the cheapo $20 kind) In the stock rear muffler spot. Exhaust system seems to be sealed up good (no leaks) but it'll still give a shotgun blast when I let off the gas and slow down at the hwy first thing. That's only a cold thing. But it pops like mad all the time on engine braking. And gives a decent shot on every shift.