The Dude

There may be a push button on the underside of the moulding right above where your legs are when sitting in the driver's seat. Push the button while cycling the key off and on. BTW, if you don't have an owner's manual, BUY ONE!! This car is fairly complex and many things are NOT intuative. BTW numero dos, you are about the billionth poster to buy an used Phase I Subaru and have it develop a head gasket leak on the way home. For some reason, that ride home must be really tough on a used Phase I engine.

I owned a 99 Forester. It definitely has the idiotic plastic separator plate. It is guaranteed to warp and leak oil. The engine or transmission has to be pulled to replace it. So, if you ever have the chance, replace it.

Andrew, exactly what happened to your engine? How did a failed crank pulley destroy your engine? A brief explanation would allow us all to learn from your experience. Sorry about the loss of your engine, it's an expensive ordeal.

Your mechanic may be honest, he may be nice, he might be kind to stray dogs and small children, but how well does he know Subarus? That's the question I'm asking myself. He might be doing his best, but he's thrown at lot of shop time and expensive parts at the problem with no results. Unless the Subaru dealer in your area has a horrible reputation I would take the car there. I live in SC. Our state isn't exactly Subaru central. Very few indie repair shops in SC are going to have in depth experiance with Subarus. It's a different situation in western NC with all the mountains, ice, and snow in that region.

You're right Chris, this doesn't belong here. This board is too valuable a resource to be used for pointless flaming. I'm glad that you see that. So, why did you post a message full of name-calling and flames? I have every right to refer to another thread on this board that covers the same subject. In my reference to the other posters I purposely did not use any screen names. Nor did I insult or name-call the posters on the other thread. Flaming is puerile and a waste of bandwidth. Don't start none, won't be none. Word.

Chris, it can't be easy to be 29 and still need to live with your mom. Lots of other guys your age have good jobs, maybe a wife and some kids. You? Chris, you've got your adolescent hostility, an old car, and judging by your personality, maybe a facefull of zits. But I will be kind, because the world needs losers just like it needs winners.

Interesting, because I'm having a running arguement with a couple of posters on another thread on how easily I think an engine can be hydrolcked. The combustion chamber volume (CCV) of 2.5L Subaru engine is only 50cc. That's only 1.69 fluid ounces. So, put even 1.8 fliud ounces of gasoline in a cylinder and it will hydrolock. I doubt that anyone has actually measured it, but many posters feel that about half a cup of gasoline will spirt out of a pressurized fuel line. Obviously, eight ounces of gasoline is more than enough to ruin your day. I am sorry for the loss of your engine. And I thank you for your post, because I learned something very important fron it. I very easily could have made the same mistake. Thanks.

Certainly, my calculations were close enough not only to be be in the ball park, but to be in the infield. The actual number critical to hydrolocking is combustion chamber volume (CCV). I was too generous in my previous post as the CCV of a 2.5L Subaru engine is 50cc. That's ONLY 1.69 fluid ounces, 13 cc less than my previous estimate. BTW, liquids typically do not vaporize under pressure. Actually, it's quite the opposite. So we know that more than 1.7 fluid ounces of water in even ONE cylinder will hydrolock the engine, possibly bending the con rods. I don't care what people do to their own cars. But suggesting that it takes "more water than most people think" to hydrolock a Suby engine strikes me as potentially poor advise. Unless, of course, most people think 0.25 fluid ounces of water will hydrolock a Suby engine. If a Subaru was meant to be used in deep water it would be called a boat instead of a car. Right there is a clue for you.

Actually, my math is correct. You only have to fill ONE cylinder with about 2.2 ounces of water to hydrolock the engine. Even small amounts of water aspirated into the engine can drastically increase the compression pressure and cause damage. Authoratative automotive websites stress how little water it takes to cause hydrolock. Bottom line, it's your car so do as you please. Most posters with hydrolocked engines write how he or she was just going through a "small puddle" when the engine froze. If you have a beater that you don't mind losing go and ford a stream. If you have a car that you want to keep, take the advise of experts and cross water only when you can see the bottom and at a very slow (5mph) speed.

Water will not compress. So.... 2457cc/4=614.25cc (cc per cylinder) 614.25/9.7 (compression ratio)=63.3 cc ("empty space" at TDC) That's about 2.14 ounces of water, that's not a lot. I'm thinking that as little as a one cup of water could hydrolock the engine. At at 2,500 rpm the engine could aspirate that much water in a couple of milliseconds. ZERO tolerance for water even remotely close to the air intake if you want to keep the engine. A bent con rod will ruin your day.

I'm pretty sure that there's an air expansion hole in the rear diff case. Fill the pumpkin full of swamp water and you will live to regret it.

Thanks a lot, that very easily could be the car. I remember my neighbors's car had a tire tread mark painted down the length of the car, so he had a sense of humor about owning it.

Back in the late early 70's, a neighbor had a very tiny litte Japanese car. The whole front end of the car, which was flat, was on hinges and was the door for the car. Any ideas on what that car could have been?

A horrible sight indeed. The person who hit your beloved Suby may be a lousy driver but at least he is honest. Try not to be too hard on him, honesty and integrity should always be encouraged.

With bubbles in the overflow tank, it should be easy enough to check the coolant for exhaust gases. Ja?

I ran my 1999 Forester to 200,000 miles with very few problems. However, my big concern with a car with 175,000 miles would be the AT. With a little luck, Subaru engines can run a long, long time time. After 150,000 miles, even a well designed AT can be on borrowed time. Another thing, at 170,000 miles that Subaru is an "auction" car. That car has way too many miles for many dealers to put it on their lot. Hopefully, you can get a very good price on it. Let it set on the dealer's lot for couple of months and see if he has a change of heart.

"Credit toward future purchase"? Why would you want to do more business with a company that sent you two bum engines? Here's the downside to the rebuilt/used engine business, they make a mistake, and you are probably out at least $500 everytime. Most people pay for a rebuilt short block or used engine because they need their car, and they want the least possible down time. If your car is off the road for weeks because someone sent you two bum engines you didn't get what you paid for. You're much better off paying a shop for an engine/install package. BUY the engine from the shop doing the install. That way, if the engine is a dud, you at least have a shot at getting them to eat the re-install labor. ALWAYS do business with an instate shop, you will at least have easy access to small claims court. Say you buy a used/rebuilt engine and then have a local shop install it. Well, the engine pukes its' guts out one week after it's installed. Too often the rebuilder says, "we sent you a good engine, that installer of yours screwed it up". The installer says, "we did a perfect install job, that rebuild company of yours sent us a bad engine". Want a nightmare, try that situation on for size. My opinion ? I think a large percentage of the time when someone is burnt by a used/ rebuilt engine they eventually give up trying and just go away. The only reason I got a replacement engine for a rebuilt engine that failed in my car is because I went to court. The rebuilder I used seemed to a have a well used routine of deny and delay, deny and delay, deny and delay. Probably most customers aren't angry enough to go through the hassle of going to court and just walk away from a $3,000 screwing. I'd rather be called angry than a sap.

It's your transaction, and if you're happy, then I respect that. However, you were shipped two rebuilt engines with serious defects . Most shops would want a minimum of $500 for a engine install, so you'd be out at least $1000 for unnecessary labor charges. Plus, how many weeks was your car off the road as the result of receiving two bum rebuilt engines? If it happened to me I'd be out for blood, figuritively speaking. It's a lot of money for a rebuilt engine, I would want it right the first time. Kinda like heart surgery.

Did you get any consideration for the install/de-install labor charges you incured due to two defective rebuilt engines?

I agree, but a Subaru with a utility trailer is even better. With a utility trailer you can carry full sheets of plywood, lawn tractors, almost anything you could put in a big pickup truck.

I would say from the list of replaced parts that the timming belt snapped on this engine. PROCEED WITH CAUTION. This engine may be perfectly repaired, then again, it may not. You'll find out after YOU pay to have the engine installed. If it's not right, then YOU will have to pay to have the engine de-installed. If the sellers "fix" the engine again, then YOU will have to pay to have the engine re-installed. See where this is going? Make sure you have a warranty. Buy only in-state, so you have easy acccess to small claims court. And see if the seller will pick up the install/de-install charges if his "fully repaired" engine takes a dump, which it very well could.

1999 Outback has the infamous 2.5 DOHC Phase I.

Actually, the downside of constantly disconnecting and reconnecting the battery is that there is a chance that the battery will expode in your face. If you're ugly, the upside is that you might require plastic surgery after the explosion. The downside is that you can't sue yourself for stupidity to pay for the surgery.

I have nothing bad to say about you, this board is all about open discussion. But I do have a few questions. How do you know that the first engine had the wrong valves, bad valve seals, and a missing oil pickup seal? Did you open up the engine? CCR specifies new piston rings, not new pistons. So, if you got new rings, you got what you where promised. How did CCR handle the shipping and installation expenses? Did CCR pick up the shipping for the return of the bad engines? Did CCR pay for any of the install/de-install labor charges on the defective engines? Based on my personal experience and observations, too often, the used and rebuilt engine industry can be a pretty scummy business. If the buyer gets a "good" used or rebuilt engine, fine, he's a lucky winner. But too often, if he gets a "bad" engine well, that's just too bad. Sure, the supplier will send another engine under warranty. But the customer is responsible for all shipping expenses and all the install/de-install labor charges. Too often, after the customer has paid for the shipping and install/de-install on a couple of bad "replacement" engines he wises up. He realizes that most likely he's never going to get a good engine. He's just going to pay shipping and install/de-install charges on a series of bad replacement engine until the "warranty" expires . If the used engine seller or engine rebuilder is in the same state as the buyer, then the buyer has at least got a shot in small claims court. If the seller or rebuilder is out of state, too often he can kiss all that money goodbye. That's why a known honest engine rebuilder or used engine seller is such a valuable resource. That's why it's worth a paying extra for a rebuilt or used engine from a provider that you know will willingly step up to the plate if things go bad. My rebuilt engine was NOT from CCR, and the whole experience was an absolute nightmare. Fortunately, I got the engine from an in-state rebuilder and I was able to file in small claims court.