My 95 legacy starts grudgingly 50% of the time, but other 50% just "clicks" starter. If I keep trying or have it sit for awhile it starts up at a higher % (80% of time). I replaced the alternator, starter (new not rebuilt), belts and tested the battery to make sure it's ok. Not sure what else I can check. I cleaned the terminals really well and checked all the connections to the starter. The only thing I can think of is that there might be a voltage drop over one of the wires due to corrosion underneath the insulation. other than that I don't know what other components affect the start up of the car. any ideas?

 

Before I replaced all these parts, I had the old starter's points replaced and this still came up.

How well did you clean the terminals. Did you remove them from the battery, then clean the battery posts and inside the battery cable bolt on connector?

 

Even when new, it is possible to get a bad starter.

Yeah, i removed the cables and cleaned them well. also cleaned the posts well. I used a standard wire brush post/terminal cleaner. I thought about the starter being bad too but its the same symptoms as before I had the points replaced on old starter. The mechanic replaced the points and it still did this. So in short, these symptoms have been present from the original starter, after mech replaced points, then still after a brand new starter. I'd like to try something else before I try the starter again, but I'm at a loss as to what to do next.

How was the battery checked?

My guess would be worn starter contacts. Common issue. You can replace them yourself if you find correct contacts.

+1 Starter contacts. Dealer sells them for $10.

 

If, after new contacts, it still occurs - you need to add a relay to the crank circuit. You may have a poor connection in the circuit somewhere. A relay will cure the problem forever.

 

GD

How was the battery checked?

 

+1 on checking the battery again.

 

Just a thought........see how well your car starts with a "jump start" from another car. If repeatedly starts well when jump starting, then I would really suspect a bad battery.

Or time for new cables.

 

It is amazing how cables can corrode in the middle somewhere from a hairline crack in the coating or something.

 

If the starter, alternator, and battery check out. And no reson to suspect ignition switch, cables gotta start looking good.

 

 

Edit: That battery needs LOAD tested. Not simply hitting it with a multimeter.

Edited February 13, 201214 yr by davebugs

I think he's calling the starter contacts the "starter points", so they were replaced and again with a new starter. I agree with davebugs, take a good look at the battery cables, and look at the circuit going to the solonoid on the starter(were the contacts are). If there isn't enough power going to the solonoid, it won't fully engage. Check to make sure the ignition switch is good, and the wiring from the switch to the solenoid. Check the starter relay as well. If it is fully engaging, then there isn't enough power to turn the starter. Try jumping the solonoid by taking off the cable coming from the battery, and touching it to the other terminal on the starter, this will bypass those starter contacts and only turn the starter. Then maybe disconnect the battery positive and use a jumper cable from the positive terminal to the terminal on the starter where the positive cable would go and try to start it. If it doesn't click, then you have a bad cable.

 

In this picture, look at that gold colored cap on the image on the right, that's where the contacts are. I bet you know that already. That gold lug below it is where the cable connects from the battery, the one on top with the gray cap is the one you jump to, to bypass the solenoid.

 

I think Frank B. has the correct answer. If the solenoid contacts have been replaced along with a different starter being installed then the real trouble is with internal wire corrosion inside the battery cable. If you cut the insulation open at the battery connector you will find the trouble there I think.

Edited February 14, 201214 yr by Cougar

The electrical expert has arrived!

I think Frank B. has the correct answer. If the solenoid contacts have been replaced along with a different starter being installed then the real trouble is with internal wire corrosion in the battery cable. If you cut the insulation open at the battery connector you will find the trouble there I think.

 

There are cases I've seen where the circuit through the ignition switch and inhibitor switch doesn't carry enough amps to kick out the solenoid hard enough. New battery cables won't solve that problem and a simple voltage drop test doesn't show anything - but installation of a relay for the crank circuit solves the problem forever. I've done half a dozen of these and it always seems to be the automatic's that suffer from this most.

 

I've seen corroded cables from split insulation also. I would say that about 50 percent of the time it's solenoid contacts, 40 percent battery cables, and then there's that last 10 percent where it's the ignition circuit that won't carry enough capacity.

 

GD

I second the relay problem, I was having the same problem on our 1996 OBW AT it would do nothing on key turn, A "heat soak relay" fixed the problem for good.

Edited February 15, 201214 yr by weldersd

Original poster never mentioned how the battery was tested.

Most of the auto parts stores will do a cycle test for free now.

LOL. That's a good one Nipper. :-p

 

The trouble could be with the ignition circuit going to the solenoid like you say GD. Instead of adding another device to the circuit I would opt to fix the real trouble. Like you also stated, the percentages are with the main battery cable.

the standard model has a relay biult into the circut its a yellow relay up under dash it somtimes gets dead spots in it and messes up its called the starter clutch relay gets a clutch peadal signal to tell relay to operate i canged a starter 3 times before i found bad relay verry intermitant problem

You can test the circuit from the ignition switch by using a jumper wire from the battery to the solenoid, where the little wire is on the starter. Just make sure it's not in gear first! Just touch the jumper to it and see if it turns over or just clicks. Do it over and over until your satisfied with the results. It's either going to act just like it does when you turn the key, or it will turn over every time. It if turns over every time, check the circuit from the ignition and the starter relay.

Is this car a manual or auto? My 96 5-speed sometimes doesn't turn over unless I mash the clutch down hard because of the switch on the clutch pedal. Other times it's fine.

 

Here's some info on adding a relay to the circuit as mentioned by the other members,

http://www.glenn-ring.com/tech/relay_starter.htm

Here's another one from a tractor forum,

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=129440

 

I did this on my lawn tractor.

 

The idea is that the wiring, or the ignition switch gets old and voltage/amperage is lost. It doesn't have the power to fully engage the solonoid, but it's enough to engage a relay. You remove the little wire on the solenoid and use that to energize the relay. The relay is just a switch in a new fused circuit from your battery. But, you should really look into what the problem is first before you decide where to spend your time and money.

 

I've used the Pilot 30 amp relay before to replace relays in Subarus, it's the 4 prong type that's common on our cars, I'm not sure if it's the same for the starter relay. But it has a higher amp rating and it's cheaper than the replacement you'll get at the parts store or dealer. I found them at autozone once for $3.99 a piece! They were by the fog lights.

The part number is PL-RY1

http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-PL-RY1-Auxiliary-Lighting-Accessory/dp/B000BL2Z3I/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1329237728&sr=1-1

 

Your local parts store may be able to order them.

 

 

Good luck and let us know the results please.

Was a flaky NSS or clutch switch ruled out?

 

I am leaning towards a tired ignition switch myself. You can always emporarily just put a light in the solenoid circuit and see if it lights up when it refuses to start just for diagnoses.

First, I'd like to apologize for not getting back to all the great posts in a timely manner. I've been tied up at work and could not get to this at all.

 

I did do a load test and the battery checks out fine.

 

I replaced the points prior to purchasing and installing a brand new oem starter. Same symptoms either way.

 

Jumping battery doesn't improve starting. I still have a 50/50 chance of starting up.

 

I never thought about the relays... I'll check on that this weekend. I also think the cables might have a lot of corrosion which may be causing the voltage drop that prevents starting. Not 100% on that though.

 

Again thanks to all who took time to help. I'll post results as soon as I can try these ideas out. I expect to have some time this weekend if not then within a week or so.

 

oh and its an automatic tranny

Edited February 15, 201214 yr by Grumble7
added info

If you verify that 12 volts is getting to the small solenoid wire on the starter when you go to the START position then you have pretty much proven the trouble is with the main battery cable. If you don't have 12 volts there and is something a lot less then the starter safety circuit needs to be checked for the trouble.

Next time it happens, put the car in Neutral and tell us what happens. Could be a worn contact in park.

 

Remeber Electricity can be irrational and wierd at times.

Since this is a automatic the trouble could very well be with the inhibit switch instead of the battery cable.

You can test the circuit from the ignition switch by using a jumper wire from the battery to the solenoid, where the little wire is on the starter. Just make sure it's not in gear first! Just touch the jumper to it and see if it turns over or just clicks. Do it over and over until your satisfied with the results. It's either going to act just like it does when you turn the key, or it will turn over every time. It if turns over every time, check the circuit from the ignition and the starter relay.

 

My '92 Legacy had very similar symptoms a year or so ago, and the above test was what I did.

 

In my case, the problem was the electrical portion of the ignition switch itself. The switch has a two-part construction, and the crimping holding the back portion to the metal shell had loosened up, and the switch contacts didn't make very good connections inside the switch. I could make the car start somewhat reliably just by pushing on the back of the switch.

 

I replaced the switch with a used one from the junkyard, and never had any other trouble with it.

I'm definetly going to try the jumper wire test this weekend. I'm also interested in the ignition switch portion too. The ignition switch is a bit flakey these days.

Thanks Again and I'll post as soon as I get some time.