vamos Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hi, I drive a 1996 legacy with 100,000 miles on the clock, EJ22 motor with auto transmission. Car was recently purchased from a dealer. Only had the car a week and whilst driving in traffic about 15-20 mph the engine just died and all instrument lights came on. Pulled the car over turned off ignition and turned the key and it started straight up again. Since there was a Suby dealer only a few miles away I drove over there and they checked the car but there were no fault codes. I was told the only way it would leave a code is if the engine died again and wouldn't start. Then I would need it towed to the shop. I drove home 60 miles without it happening again. Two weeks later same thing happened 3 times within 3-4 minutes. Each time just put it in neutral and restarted the car no problem. Again I was driving at a low speed in traffic. So did some research and thought maybe a dirty air flow sensor so cleaned the sensor with the CRC MAF spray and put in a new air cleaner. Engine has not died since (about a week ago) but yesterday driving on the freeway around 60 mph the engine started to die or miss as though it was starved of fuel for a couple of seconds. It hiccuped like this 2 or 3 times then was ok and I drove the 70 miles home without it happening again. Has anyone comes across this same problem or have any ideas where I should look next? Don't really want to replace good sensors if they don't need it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Do not start throwing parts at the car hoping one of them will do the trick. I would probably start with the cheapest approach: look for a vacuum leak somewhere, and make sure all the connectors to vital sensors (i.e. MAF, TPS) are corrosion-free and tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Either volume or pressure. I would check the fuel pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recian Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 To me it seems like ignition problems. Fuel delivery is possible but the starting back. Up kinda throws me. Id look at the plugs. They will tell you by color whats missing. Fouled black color with gas means ignition. If theyre nice and white theyre just old. Lack of fuel is hard to tell since it wont leave a trace. At 100k its about time for a tune up. Also it may seem like a stretch but check your engine ground. It bolts to the firewall and to the starter. Its the ecm ground and if it is loose it could cause the ecm to shut down. Also check the body grounds on the strut towers and by the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 seems like cars of that vintage had crank angle sensors that would fail intermittently or when they got hot. dunno why it wouldn't throw a code. has the fuel filter been changed? Are the coils/plugwires in good shape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Still waiting to receive new plugs, fuel filter and plug leads from Amazon ( i live in Australia). Meanwhile the engine cutting out just happened again. After a long drive I stopped for a few minutes to pick up a few groceries before heading home. Got in the car and within 30 seconds engine died, put the car in neutral whilst still moving and it started right up. A couple of miles later the engine nearly stalled and perked up but died later as I entered my driveway. I did have plenty of fuel in the tank. This problem only seems to occur after a long drive. I have checked my sensor connections but will wait and see what happens after I put in new plugs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 It could also be a sticky idle air control valve. Does it only stall when you have your foot off the throttle, or does it die when you're still giving it gas? If it only dies when you have your foot off the throttle then the IAC is the most likely issue. It has to let air in to keep the engine running after the throttle has closed and if it's gunked up it can stick and not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 MAF sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Crank and cam position sensors only throw codes for faults while the car is running. Stalling do to a sensor failure wont throw a code as the car needs to be running. If the sensor misbehaves then it will throw one. These things are tough. Lest start with basics. Clean the battery terminals, make sure they are tight, and give the car a tuneup. That would goive us a good baseline to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 It could also be a sticky idle air control valve. Does it only stall when you have your foot off the throttle, or does it die when you're still giving it gas? If it only dies when you have your foot off the throttle then the IAC is the most likely issue. It has to let air in to keep the engine running after the throttle has closed and if it's gunked up it can stick and not work. Thanks for your reply. The engine has died whilst idling at traffic lights and also while I'm speeding up. Engine only dies while travelling at low speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Crank and cam position sensors only throw codes for faults while the car is running. Stalling do to a sensor failure wont throw a code as the car needs to be running. If the sensor misbehaves then it will throw one. These things are tough. Lest start with basics. Clean the battery terminals, make sure they are tight, and give the car a tuneup. That would goive us a good baseline to start. Thanks Nipper. I have ordered a fuel filter, iridium plugs and leads from Amazon. Also because I have only had the car a few weeks and unsure when the timing belt was last done, I have booked it in. Getting the full treatment, belt, pumps, seals and idlers. Will be asking the mechanic to give his thoughts on my problem and check a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 MAF sensor. Thanks for replying. Interestingly, I found this when searching the net for this same problem and look what came up:- We own a 1994 Subaru Legacy 250T station wagon. Over the past few weeks while driving along the engine cuts out. All the lights on the dashboard come on, and the power light flashes. You can then put the car in neutral or park and turn the engine on and it restarts without any problems. We have taken the car to our local mechanic and he ran the computer diagnostic on the car, but of course while the mechanic had the car the problem did not occur and he could not find any problems with the car.*** We have checked all the connections to the battery and any other electrical connections but cannot find anything loose. Have you any idea what may be causing this problem? Reply Hi, we contacted the Anything Electronic Co. and they advised that the problem could be a fault with the Airflow Meter. We took the car to the Subaru dealer and they put it on the analyser and it did report a possible problem with the airflow meter. We replaced the Airflow meter with a new part and have not had any problems since. So you may be right about the MAF sensor. Before I replace it, I have booked the car in to get a timing belt change done and will ask the mechanic to offer his advice and check it out. I also have new plugs, leads and fuel filter on the way from Amazon. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'll elaborate a bit more on my suggestion. Should have before but I was having a hard time sitting still. I had the exact same behavior from my 96 when I bought it. I was blessed with a Check Engine Light, being an OBDii car the diagnostics are a bit more sensitive when intermittent problems arise. I've also read of at least one other instance where intermittent stalling was caused by a bad MAF. The problem comes from broken solder connections where the pins connect to the PCB inside the housing. Most of the time the broken connection is still touching, but every now and then because of movement or vibration a small gap opens and cuts power or signal to the sensor. The ECU loses the signal from the MAF for a split second and flips out. When it loses the MAF signal it kills the engine. You can unplug the MAF and it will stall, but once restarted it will run or at least should run in a safe mode that will allow the car to be driven, though it may be rough and stumble, it will still run. You can do this as a test, if the engine runs without stalling for an extended period of time, then you can safely blame the MAF for the stalling problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'll elaborate a bit more on my suggestion. Should have before but I was having a hard time sitting still. I had the exact same behavior from my 96 when I bought it. I was blessed with a Check Engine Light, being an OBDii car the diagnostics are a bit more sensitive when intermittent problems arise. I've also read of at least one other instance where intermittent stalling was caused by a bad MAF. The problem comes from broken solder connections where the pins connect to the PCB inside the housing. Most of the time the broken connection is still touching, but every now and then because of movement or vibration a small gap opens and cuts power or signal to the sensor. The ECU loses the signal from the MAF for a split second and flips out. When it loses the MAF signal it kills the engine. You can unplug the MAF and it will stall, but once restarted it will run or at least should run in a safe mode that will allow the car to be driven, though it may be rough and stumble, it will still run. You can do this as a test, if the engine runs without stalling for an extended period of time, then you can safely blame the MAF for the stalling problem. Absolutely awesome information. Thanks Although from what you describe, you would think the problem would occur even on my short drives around town (10-12 miles at a time) which it never has. It's only been happening after a long drive and then getting caught up in traffic. I'll see if the mechanic can pick up a code when I give him the car next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I had something similar happen on my 92 Legacy. Ended up being the plug wires. It was arcing around the boot directly from the coil to the base of the coil and somehow causing the computer to reset when it arced, thus causing the car to stumble at high speeds or die at low speeds. Probably not your issue but throwing it out there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 one thing you might also consider is the alternator might be going bad? thus when it heats up it short out? i know when i've had a bad one it can cause all kinds of problems, like the temp guage won't work properly or other dash instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 feul pump and feul pump check power distibution box have seen fuses that have shook loose cause thiss had impreza that the 30 amp fuse had broken end and was just barly contacting had very intermitant starting problem the fuses dont have to look bad to be bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 You can unplug the MAF and it will stall, but once restarted it will run or at least should run in a safe mode that will allow the car to be driven, though it may be rough and stumble, it will still run. You can do this as a test, if the engine runs without stalling for an extended period of time, then you can safely blame the MAF for the stalling problem. I did unplug the MAF as you suggested and whilst the engine idled OK as soon as I increased the revs the engine would nearly stall so did not bother to even try to drive it any distance. By the way the engine did die this time on a short drive and also lost power a couple of times but came back up before stalling. Another annoying problem has developed the last two mornings. Have to jump start the car, Turns over but battery goes dead after a few seconds. Funny thing is the multimeter shows the battery to have a full charge prior to turning the key. I'll get that checked out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I did unplug the MAF as you suggested and whilst the engine idled OK as soon as I increased the revs the engine would nearly stall so did not bother to even try to drive it any distance. By the way the engine did die this time on a short drive and also lost power a couple of times but came back up before stalling.Another annoying problem has developed the last two mornings. Have to jump start the car, Turns over but battery goes dead after a few seconds. Funny thing is the multimeter shows the battery to have a full charge prior to turning the key. I'll get that checked out too. Multimeter is likely showing full voltage. But it can't measure a full 'charge'. If you or a helper measures the voltage across the battery DURING cranking, that 'might' tell us something. I've read 10-10.5 is normal during cranking. If it's a lot lower, I'd suspect a poor charge in the battery or maybe a higher than normal load, shorted windings in the starter or abnormal load or ????? A lot higher than hat, and maybe some resistance somewhere; bad connections, bad cables, etc. Bad cables/connections may be preventing full current during cranking and/or good re-charging from the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 and if you do decide to check out the alternator, you can take it to autozone, (don't know about o'reilly or other parts places) and they'll test it for free. Has to be off the car though. It may not test bad since you said you only had problem when hot. In case you do have to replace it: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=133324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I did unplug the MAF as you suggested and whilst the engine idled OK as soon as I increased the revs the engine would nearly stall so did not bother to even try to drive it any distance. By the way the engine did die this time on a short drive and also lost power a couple of times but came back up before stalling.Another annoying problem has developed the last two mornings. Have to jump start the car, Turns over but battery goes dead after a few seconds. Funny thing is the multimeter shows the battery to have a full charge prior to turning the key. I'll get that checked out too. That is probably poor connections at the battery. Try cleaning the terminals, also check the ground connection on the block just above the starter, and make sure the positive is connected securely to the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 I had something similar happen on my 92 Legacy. Ended up being the plug wires. It was arcing around the boot directly from the coil to the base of the coil and somehow causing the computer to reset when it arced, thus causing the car to stumble at high speeds or die at low speeds. Probably not your issue but throwing it out there anyway. Thanks. :)All information on this has been very helpful. Will be changing the plugs, leads and fuel filter when the items arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Update: Have the car back from the shop, new plugs, leads, fuel filter and timing belt done. Code was found which indicated the MAF sensor faulty. However, still unsure about this as I expect it would have thrown a code since I did unplug the MAF and run the engine. I realized later after picking up the car I should have mentioned this to the mechanic .. I forgot. Engine hasn't died since but there has been the odd moment of hesitation from the engine whilst driving. Looks as though I will be replacing the MAF sensor. Mechanic is looking around and will price a used one for me. Not too sure about that. As for the battery, had it checked out and it didn't have enough crank power left in it to turn the starter over so replaced it. Alternator checked out OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Update It was the Mass Airflow Sensor. I believe you hit the nail on the head Fairtax4me about it being broken solder connections inside the housing. Never did give me a fault code though. Picked up a MAF off Ebay for $17 ( out of curiosity I asked a suby dealer how much ... $823!!! ). No problems since I replaced it. Thanks to everyone who contributed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Congrats vamos--glad you got the problem solved--and for a reasonable price! (Yikes . . . $823???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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