LEGACY GT RECALL INITIATION!

[hardus77]

Hi guys! I am starting a recall for LGT owners from 05-06 who has a catted up-pipe.

The up-pipe for the legacy GT in these given years has a catalytic converter in there and after a certain mileage, the debris of the catalytic converter breaking down would shoot back into the turbocharger. that would cause the turbo failure and stall the vehicle unexpectedly. the catalytic converter in the up-pipe does not have any indication of % of wear and most non-car enthusiasts would not know what the issue is caused by except for an expensive turbo replacement and up-pipe replacements.  https://scrabblewordfinder.vip/ 

Most of the owners of these issues turn over to catless up-pipe but that would cause the check engine light coming on and over boosting or the engine run rich, further damaging the engine.

This can be dangerous if a person is on a road trip and having a long drive as it directly impacts the drivability of the vehicle. Subaru has recognized the issue and therefore 07+ turbo models all have a catless up-pipe with the ecu tuned to that specification.  https://www.applock.ooo/ 

I believe it is not fair for 05-06 legacy GT owners to have to suffer from such a critical issue without some sort of compensation or recall.  https://www.7zip.vip/

If any of you guys have suffered from this issue and hope NHTSA can issue a recall and make our up-pipe catless and possibly a new turbo! Please report this complain!

The NHTSA ID Number: 11204499

Thank you for your time

Edited May 31, 2019 by hardus77

[carfreak85]

I applaud you for taking the time to file a NHTSA complaint.  Not enough people do that.  Early WRXs also have the catted up pipe.

[GeneralDisorder]

They won't do anything. It is not a safety concern in that it is not likely to cause an accident any more than any other failure resulting in engine stall. Vehicles are designed to not violently explode or careen into other vehicles if the engines stall. You simply coast to the side and that's why tow truck drivers are radio dispatched....

Honestly your complaint in laughable. It is the Highway Traffic SAFETY Administration. Not the Highway Traffic Angry Customer Administration. LoL. 

The 05-09 Legacy turbo platforms (LGT and OBXT) are complete garbage and are basically cursed. Besides having turbo failures, piston ring land failures, pickup tube failures, and (05/06) catted up-pipes, the 5EAT has sensor and wiring harness problems, and the climate control/radio panels fail and are no longer available. They are frankly AWFUL cars.

Should have done your research before buying one.

Catted up-pipe failure is actually much more rare than the other issues I listed. And putting in a catless up-pipe will not adversely effect the turbo spool (what little there is, lol), or cause a CEL. It's quite easy and relatively cheap to flash a new map that deletes the up-pipe cat just like Subaru did for 07 models. The downpipe cats are the same on 05 - 09's.

I see plenty of these cars with perfectly intact up-pipe cats with well over 200k miles. Generally this is the lifespan of converters and they should be inspected and replaced (or removed in this case).

GD

[carfreak85]

GD, I work over the cube wall from our warranty department (OEM manufacturer).  I write recalls, interact with our legal counsel as well as with NHTSA reps.

"Sudden loss of control" is only one of the criteria used by NHTSA to determine if something needs to happen.  A cat disintegrating, locking up the turbo or taking out the engine is absolutely something that could be covered under a safety recall because guess what, if you engine munches your turbo, you lose the ability to accelerate, brake with power assistance, steer with power assistance, all things NHTSA generally frowns upon.  Is it likely to happen?  Maybe not, but it could, and that's all that matters really.

NHTSA isn't only interested in safety, that's why they have a customer portal on their website, the link says "Report A Problem," and there is no criteria given for what they consider acceptable types of complaints.

Manufacturers generally don't initiate recalls on their own, unless people are dying or the company stands to lose millions in dissatisfied fleet buyers, so it's really on us as consumers to report anything and everything.  You may disagree, but take it from someone working in the belly of the beast...

Edited May 17, 2019 by carfreak85

[GeneralDisorder]

The failure of a turbo would not cause the engine to lock up. It would simply cause the turbo to stop spinning. A turbo is not a positive displacement pump so air will still flow and the engine will still run. Albeit with a slight performance loss.

The failure of the cat in and of itself is NOT  safety concern. If the vehicle continues to be driven under these conditions it may result in futher collateral damage but the driver should heed the warnings of noises and power loss long before this becomes an engine stall situation.

Just because it's inconvenient and expensive to tow the vehicle if you're on a "long road trip"?!? LOL. That should be budget for in your trip. Duh. $hit happens. It's not Subaru's responsibility to fix your budgetary oversights. You ever heard "save for a rainy day". Downpour is here yo!

Furthermore I am not aware of any safety related recalls for converter disintegration unless it's very early in the cars life. Converters fail and sometimes they create collateral damage. It's a fact of car ownership. 

Seriously this is ridiculous. Go call the whhhaaambulance.

Sorry you had to pay for a converter and collateral damages on your decade old Subaru turbo? LoL. Welcome to the club - buyer beware. 

GD

Edited May 17, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[1 Lucky Texan]

true - you likely will be in something like 'limp' mode.

if there wasn't a recall for stuck air-cut valves, they aren't gonna do one for this.

stupid air-cut valves

 

[carfreak85]

1 hour ago, GeneralDisorder said:

The failure of a turbo would not cause the engine to lock up. It would simply cause the turbo to stop spinning. A turbo is not a positive displacement pump so air will still flow and the engine will still run. Albeit with a slight performance loss.

I just spun around and asked the warranty folks, and yes, we've seen turbos take out engines when the impellers are damaged and become ingested.  Not frequent, but it has happened.

So there you go.

[FerGloyale]

While GD's take may be a little uhhhh.....less than sympathetic.......I have to agree.

#1)  They aren't failing in massive numbers.  The few I've seen didn't make the car undriveable.

#2) Same design on years and years of WRXs, again pointing to a very low failure rate.

#3)The car is 14 years old.  Well out of any warranty.  So it made it as far as they designed it to at least.

 

 

To the OP.  If you are really worried, put a Catless Uppipe in it.  There really is no danger to that. it'll be fine.  Relax and enjoy your car.

 

Also, I don't think the NHTSA has any ability to do squat in India.

[GeneralDisorder]

2 hours ago, carfreak85 said:

I just spun around and asked the warranty folks, and yes, we've seen turbos take out engines when the impellers are damaged and become ingested.  Not frequent, but it has happened.

So there you go.

On the cold side maybe. Cat matrix is on the hot side. I don't see how it's going to cause the engine to ingest anything. 

I've seen this failure. Multiple times. In no cases that I've seen has the up-pipe cat failure caused an engine seizure or ingestion of anything. Indeed it's actually one of the more benign failure modes as it doesn't usually cause engine oil contamination. You swap the up-pipe and the turbo and move on with life. 

This IS NOT a safety related failure IMO. It's also the least common of the "common" failure items on the JUNK LGT/OBXT platform cars. Seriously they are junk. Way too many design flaws. The yards are just filthy with cosmetically perfect examples with drivetrain failures far outstripping their value. 

GD

Edited May 17, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[FerGloyale]

8 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

 

I've seen this failure. Multiple times. In no cases that I've seen has the up-pipe cat failure caused an engine seizure or ingestion of anything. Indeed it's actually one of the more benign failure modes as it doesn't usually cause engine oil contamination. You swap the up-pipe and the turbo and move on with life. 

This IS NOT a safety related failure IMO. It's also the least common of the "common" failure items on the JUNK LGT/OBXT platform cars. Seriously they are junk. Way too many design flaws. The yards are just filthy with cosmetically perfect examples with drivetrain failures far outstripping their value. 

GD

 

+1

Just 2 months ago replaced the uppipe in a Baja turbo.  

And your right about the cold side/hot side issue.  Debris stops turbo from spinning well/blocks the pipe.  This means the turbo doesn't spool.  No chance it's gonna blow up or wear the shaft if doesn't spin.  Worst case you have to replace the turbo with the uppipe.   For this Baja recently I did not.  Tiny bits of Cat material the made it into turbo chipped up and spit out.  No detectable turbo damage.   But hell, the turbos fail themselves all the time, and need replaced anyhow.  Soooo..........

[impostor]

+1 on them being AWFUL cars, possibly the worst car Subaru has ever built. I hate when they come in and being the 'last one to touch it.' 

We have a saying at our shop: "Friends don't let friends buy Legacy GTs"

I recently told someone in the local FB group that I could rewrite the lyrics to "We Didn't Start the Fire" with all the common problems these cars have.