who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 My 90 Legacy started blowing bubbles out the overflow tank , in a very "blown head gasket" type of manor. Of course this also forced coolant out making it try to overheat. So I pulled the engine, and upon inspecting the passenger side gasket I found a very blown looking spot. So. I got some good quality gaskets, and got the heads resurfaced at a very reliable machine shop. Put it all back together...still blows bubbles, in exactly the same way! So, It has to be one of the heads right??? They didn't look cracked or bad in any way... I think what I'll do is get yet another set of gaskets (I can't reuse these, only run once?) and put the, good-last-time I checked, heads from of my 94 engine (with main bearing going bad) on this 90... What do you think? Is there anything else that could cause this??? :-\ Thanks, Ciao, Stephen Ps, are 94 fuel injectors better than 90s? If so I'll swap those out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 well that sucks. try a compression test. hydrocarbon test. did you clean the bolts threads and bolt holes really well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 cracks in cylinders? Look about twenty-five mills down from the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 well that sucks. try a compression test. hydrocarbon test. did you clean the bolts threads and bolt holes really well? I can smell hydrocarbons coming out of the radiator... Also, I don't know why, but after I let it run, blowing bubbles for a few minutes, I took the rad cap off and the 50/50 mix in the neck of the rad looked clear as pure water (and was COLD). Freaky! As for the head bolts, I cleaned them and the holes were pretty clean, they threaded well, and torqued fine... (that torque procedure is funky) Are the blots/holes really sensitive to contamination? Why did you mention this? cracks in cylinders? Look about twenty-five mills down from the top. I didn't notice anything but a silky smooth bore... I've never heard of EJ22 blocks cracking (without a really good reason). ¿? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Are the blots/holes really sensitive to contamination? Why did you mention this? if the holes get dirty and corroded the torque won't be accurate. the bolts will all tighten okay, but that's not the best scenario. i doubt this would be an issue on most EJ22's since they really aren't that old yet, but i know the 80's subaru's can have very dirty head bolts and threads. if you can figure out which side is blown you can at least only replace one side since the other side is new. compression test maybe? leak down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 if? the head gaskets sealed there has to be a leak elswhere,has to be a cracked head,a cracked sleeve.think about it,this is compression getting in the coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 if? the head gaskets sealed there has to be a leak elswhere,has to be a cracked head,a cracked sleeve.think about it,this is compression getting in the coolant. Yeah, I know... I should have just put the '94 heads (that I know to be good) on there instead of resurfacing and using the the heads I took off...I was just too optimistic, because this engine ran so darn well (other than the bubbles). if you can figure out which side is blown you can at least only replace one side since the other side is new. compression test maybe? leak down? I'll do a leak down...I think my brother has one. If I'm only having trouble on one side, I'll probably try changing the head (gasket) with the engine in the car. ... depending on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 did you notice any pistons being REAL clean,every one i ever saw the antifreeze did a real good job of cleaning things up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 did you notice any pistons being REAL clean, every one i ever saw the antifreeze did a real good job of cleaning things up? Noop, all nice and carboned...I don't think any coolant is getting in to the combustion chamber...just gasses into the cooling system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 just thinking outloud,shouldnt a cracked sleeve,liner,bore,what ever we decide to call it,show coolant in the oil? i cant believe its not showing up as a miss,if the head is cracked why wouldnt coolant seep back thru that crack?either in to the oil or into a cylnder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Feel for system pressure by squeezing the top hose. There are bad Fuji rad-caps out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 did you notice any pistons being REAL clean,every one i ever saw the antifreeze did a real good job of cleaning things up? Actually its the water .. its the way you sued to de-carbonize the engine. You would point the tailpipe downwind, away from neighbors, race the engine, and use a spray bottle to get water in the intake. The smoke would be thick and hing in the air, but would get rid of the carbon. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_talk Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Hey Stephen Sounds like you might have a crack in an exhaust port, these normally start between the valves then extend down the port. You have to look under the valve to really see them. I know this can be a problem with the EA82 head but haven’t heard that it’s common in the EJ stuff. In the future, if you’re gonna spend money at the machine shop a pressure test should be on the list. And on you’re original P.S. question, I don’t think there is any difference in the ’90 to ’94 injectors, but in general its best to keep the injectors matched with the ECU/system they came with. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
color-blind Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Are you still fighting with the 2.2? The 1990 2.2 engine is the most common to have block issues, usually on the passenger side. The block will crack. Our shop policy is no head gasket replacement on 1990. 2.2 engines. Normally we will install a 1992 or newer 2.2 engine. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 Are you still fighting with the 2.2? The 1990 2.2 engine is the most common to have block issues, usually on the passenger side. The block will crack. Our shop policy is no head gasket replacement on 1990. 2.2 engines. Normally we will install a 1992 or newer 2.2 engine. Hope this helps. Dude... That sucks... So, would you recommend that I put the '94 block in? It has a worn main bearing. Around an 1/8 inch of end-play, enough to make accessory belt noise when the clutch is pressed. So...If I go that rout I'd have to split the block and change the bearing (or just throw that lump in and let it live till it dies)...Arg! More work. How hard is a bearing job on an EJ22??? And how much does it cost? I assume it involves head removal, and gaskets? (so I should go order some soon, as I already go the last 2 in town) One thing is for sure, I'm getting really fast at pulling pancakes. Thanks again for all the advice guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
color-blind Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 You should be able to pick up a good used 2.2 between $600-700. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 You should be able to pick up a good used 2.2 between $600-700. Good luck. ¡I payed $180 for this car, and my current daily driver ('82 Diesel Chevette) was $500...Only reason I am pushing to get this possum of a Legacy working is that it has a really nice alarm system, and I keep getting broken in to... I have time, but not money. So...My '94 engine looks to be the solution...the only question is whether or not it's worth the time and money of putting a main bearing in?? or just running it in to the ground as is?? (It ran OK with the end-play last time it was in a non-wrecked car) Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Where do they crack Colorblind and did you used to post as Richie Rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
color-blind Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Where do they crack Colorblind and did you used to post as Richie Rich? It's basically a design flaw, they we're cast incorrectly. I've only seen it on the 1990 2.2 engines. And no I did not post before as Richie Rich. I don't post as often as I should. It's the slow time of year now so I have some time. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I was wondering because Richie has a Subaru shop up norht somewhere and it seems like you work on them too. Good to have your experience around because it takes forever to figure something out the first time and ten minutes the next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
color-blind Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I was wondering because Richie has a Subaru shop up norht somewhere and it seems like you work on them too. Good to have your experience around because it takes forever to figure something out the first time and ten minutes the next time. So now you want me to give up all me secrets, LOL. So when do I get paid for this, LOL. Just kidding, glad I can help. I just don't have much time to post. And yes I work on a LOT of Subaru vehicles. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richierich Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Very good information, did not know that the 1990 were weaker than the rest. Seems that the 90 and 91 always have the most miles thus more problems. Just to set things straight my shop is located in Portland, OR. But expand to Seattle and than take over the world, Muuuahhh!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I work on one Subaru and probably know more about busses and trains. Glad to hear the occasional secret from you two. I used to know a heck of a lot about Ford FE engines too but they are as much history as I am. When you work on anything all the time you find you often run into the same problems over and over. I think I will beware of 90 91 2.2s after hearing from you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 So I this evening I went up to my shop, resolved to the task of pulling yet another engine (3dr in 4 days)... I don't know why, but I decided to give the ol' Possum (that's the name of my '90 Legacy) another try, and/or overheat/blow it up...:-p SO I refilled the half empty rad, and went for another drive. It started acting the same, bubbling from the overflow (not as much as before though), and after it got to op-temp the gauge would climbing toward red on downhill roads...So I turned around, and pulled up in front of my shop. By now the temp gauge was holding steady at about a cm under the red... I looked in the overflow tank and noticed that it hadn't risen all the way, and IT WASN'T BUBBLING much, if any!!!!!!!!!! Got back in to look at he temp and it hadn't changed. I don't know why, but I revved the engine really hard (Like to red-line, as I was just a bit annoyed) and instantly the temp dropped to about 2/3! I revved again and it dropped to the high side of center! Once more and it was at it's normal low side of center position... I drove it all over and it started to get hot once more, I revved it hard and it cooled back down. And behaved for the rest of my test drive. After I got back and shut it off I noticed that it was sucking coolant back in from the overflow tank, like a good car should...no pressurized cooling system. Let it cool, cleaned up, drove it home, no bubbles and no excess heat. And the heater blew nice and warm even on downhills. I don't want to jinx them, but is it possible for head gaskets to not seal initially, then seal overnight? After a very mild overheating? We'll see if this lasts, but so far this car is fixing its self...even the lifters that never quite stopped ticking the night before last, were quiet as a mouse today. If she lives another day, I'll post up pictures and some info on this unique rig that shall hence forth be known as The Possum. Thanks for all your advice guys...hope I don't need to take any of it. Ciao Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Color-Blind is right....At the dealership I worked at we did'nt replace the headgaskets in the 90 2.2 either....There was a design flaw in them and I have been through 3 count them 3 different 89-90 engines in my 90 Legacy failing with exactly the same symptoms, Finally installed a 91 engine and have had no problems since. Seems the blocks get hairline cracks, I was always told that they appeared most frequenty in the #2 and #4 cylinders but I dont know, I never pulled any of my heads to examin them. IMO I would definetly try to replace the engine with a newer model and you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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