This is rather mind boggling....

[bart2546]

Greetings again to everyone!

 

This will be the first problem I have had that was not, I guess you could say thus far "an easy fix"....About a month ago, when I would start my car while the engine was cold, it would be fine, then about at the half-way temperature point, the CEL light would come on, and so would my cooling fans. Then once it reached operating temperature, the CEL light would go off. As I posted before, once when this happened I brought the car to a stop to see how the engine was running when the CEL light did kick on, it ran at about 250 RPM's but did not stall... flash over to about 2 days ago, I get in and begin to start the car, and it cranked and cranked and cranked multiple times, strong battery, strong starter, no turn-over. After about 5 minutes of trying to start her, she did turn over, and her RPMs were extremely low, barely running, I attempted to give it some gas and it just bogged down even more. Anyway, about 2 more minutes after letting her do her thing, she was up to between 500 and 750 RPMs which is her normal, drove on home and she was fine, has not happened again...however what has changed as of today, is when I first start the car, the CEL light clicks on and remains on, and so do the cooling fans, and they are kicking on while the engine is cold. They run the whole time while driving (no matter what the temperature gauge does) and then when I get to my destination they continue to run until I turn the car off. To experiment, I pulled the fuses for each fan (one in engine compartment and the one in the interior compartment) The fans did stop however the CEL light remained on, so I figured ok, let me try to reset the computer of the car. Disconnected positive and negative terminals to the battery, let it sit about 30 to 45 minutes. Reconnected and still the same situation. Now, here is what is primarily bugging me: 1) What is this that is happening to my little Zubie? 2) I am a little worried since the problem started then got worse, can it get even worse from doing nothing? 3) Relating to question (2) if nothing can get worse, will it hurt to just leave the fans run all the time or will that burn them up? 4 and final)If I just pull the fuses for both fans and leave it like that, could that be of any damage since generally the fans never needed to kick on because my car never got that hot...I do apologize for this terribly long post, but I feel to have any idea you would need to know the whole story. As of right now also I have not had the CEL light diagnosed by a code scanner because I feel it may be possible to diagnose the problem but all of the other symptoms of the car besides the CEL light. Thanks to everyone in advance for any posts and please provide me with your input.

 

 

Best Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

1995 Subaru Impreza L 1.8 Liter

[Subaru_for_LIfe]

I'm not a mechanic but sounds like ECU (computer) is confused about the actual temperature of the motor. Did you check and/or replace the temperature sensor. You might want to check the O2 sensors as well.

 

Do not take the fuses out for the fans. You'd rather have the fans running than no fans at all. I'm sure other knowledgeable members will help you out.

 

Good luck.

[nipper]

Check tow things. Check the engine temp sensor for the ECU a,nd check the fan switch temp sensor.

Fans can run all the time, as they tend to do with the AC on. DO NOT pull the fuses, otherwise you will have 200 lbs of scrap metal under the hood.

Next time the CEL comes on and goes out, get the codes pulled and see if anything shows up.

 

nipper

[Andyjo]

The computer will store the codes, even if the light isn't on (at least mine does :-\ ), i'd bring her over to an auto store, and get yourself a free CEL checkup

[Subaru_for_LIfe]

The computer will store the codes, even if the light isn't on (at least mine does :-\ ), i'd bring her over to an auto store, and get yourself a free CEL checkup

 

Hey that's good news but I thought they only do that on '95 and later models with OBD II connection and not the pre-'95 models with OBD I If it's true than it's great news, I'll take mine down to Autozone

[bart2546]

Thank you all for the replies. If I may ask, where would the fan temperature sensor be located, along with the ECU's engine temperature sensor...I will take a look at both when I can find them... Thanks again!

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

[nipper]

Brandon,

Go get yourself a haynes manual. Since this may require more troubleshooting then we have done so far it will make it easier for us all

 

nipper

[frag]

On the 96 2,2L engine there is only one coolant temp sensor (two leads) both for engine management and for switching on the fans. There is another sensor (one lead) but it only sends info to the temp gauge. I dunno if the 95 2.2L is the same or different.

To locate the coolant temp sensor make a search on this board and you'll find plenty of info (pics included) telling you how to locate, test and replace.

Good luck!

[bart2546]

Ok, looked up the temp. sensor in my Chiltons, states that on the 1.2L the sensor is some where on the intake, however for mine for example, the 1.8L, it is on the radiator. I took a long look at the radiator, from top to bottom, and I cannot find where there is a sensor that goes on/in to the radiator, now on my old Jag, it was right there on the side and it stuck out, and the plug set up was the same as what my chiltons manual says, but I cannot locate this one to check it out, however while under there, I believe I found what would be the thermostat. On the lower radiator hose that leads to the engine, there is a diamond-ish shaped obeject with 2 bolts on each tip that hold it up to the radiator, in where I would believe to be the gasket, there is some built up greenish gunk, leading me to believe there may be a possibility of a leaking thermostat/gasket combo. If someone could give me some info if that is the correct assumption I would appreciate it and also if someone knows the exact location of this coolant temp. sensor on the radiator, please indulge me because I am lost as to where this thing is. I did take a look at some searches and some pictures that are posted on the site. Deffinitely helpful, but they were from a 2.2 liter, would my 1.8 have them in the same place?

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

95 Impreza L 1.8 liter

[nipper]

i keep forgetting you have a 1.8L, sure be difficult. If you can find pictures of them within the same Generation, the sensors should look all alike across the engine range. i dont have any 1.8L info for that year

 

nipper

[bart2546]

Ok located temp sensor unit, is under extensive wiring ETC ETC. I found it was located down and to the right of my PCV valve contrary to what my chilton manual said for my 1.8 L. Anyway, tried piddling with that no luck. (Mind you I had to take one of the last couple of availble days off of work because the stupid thing would not start to get me ther) Anyway, once I got it started good enough to drive it, I drove to several mechanics around my area, since mine is a 95, and that was the transition year from OBD to OBD II, no one has my connector to run a test on the CEL light, everyone has OBD II connectors but no versions before that, and of course mine is NOT OBD II...any input would be helpful, I guess at this point, is there some ease of replacing the sensor without practically dismantling the entire top side of my engine to get to the sensor??? Thanks for your input..

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

[frag]

If it's anything like on my 2.2L, you can disconnect it with fingers or a pair of long nose pliers. Then push aside or if necessary disconnect some wires and hoses to get access to the sensor. A short lenght of extension between ratchet and socket is necessary to remove the sensor. The sensor you're after has two leads, not to be confused with the one, just next to it, and having only one lead (it goes to the temp gauge). Lower the coolant level a bit if you dont want to spill any.

Good luck!

[bart2546]

Ok everyone, got the new sensor, disconnected and cleaned the contacts, installed the new sensor, made sure all lines where back in place, replenished coolant. Even went as far as to DC the battery and let the car sit for 10 minutes or so to reset the ECU, and all of this to no avail. Car still does the exact same thing with the exact same symptoms. Now at first thought I began to wonder "would it be the fuel injectors" but then it keeps taking me back to the fact that...the cooling fans stay on the entire time, making me think it is still something temperature related, you wouldn't think the ECU itself is fried in some parts, specifically that part?....please now I'm in need of real help because this puts me at basically square zero. And I repeat, no one near me has a code reader for my version of O.B.D. because they all have OBD II diagnostics....thanks in advance...P.S. if someone can find a regular OBD reader to buy, preferably online, please post the link because I have been completely unsuccessful in finding any code readers other than OBD II online... thanks.

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

95 Subaru Impreza L 1.8 Liter

[1 Lucky Texan]

My fear is you may have 2 problems. One related to the IAC mechanism or TPS or something. And the other - I dunno, A/C fan control relay or a bad wiring harness or ECU???

 

sorry - just wild guesses

 

maybe your car has some diagnostic connecters that will give you 'blink' code?

 

Carl

[nipper]

My fear is you may have 2 problems. One related to the IAC mechanism or TPS or something. And the other - I dunno, A/C fan control relay or a bad wiring harness or ECU???

 

sorry - just wild guesses

 

maybe your car has some diagnostic connecters that will give you 'blink' code?

 

Carl

 

here we go

1- connect the self diagnostics connector under the dash (look and you will see something that looks like it needs to be pluged into the connector next to it, thats it) I thiink its green, Hayes says you need to partially remove the drivers side dash panel on the right side of the steering column.

2- Turn the ignition key to ON (do not start the car). The CEL should be on

3- Dissconnest the self check plug (sounds odd to me too) If the light is falshing really fast the plugs are still connnected (gee how come no one says this when they try to drive with this connected)

4- Watch the light (go to the light hehehehe). Long blinks will be the first digit, short blinks will be the second digit. FOur long is a 4, two short is a 2, hence 42.

5- The CEL will repeat once it has spilled its guts

 

Tell us what the trouble codes are and we will look them up. There are deeper trouble codes, but that requires special readers. You can clear the codes by disconnecting the negative terminal for 30 seconds or more (i hate loosing all the radio settings doing that)

 

nipper

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

ok, let me put in my 2 cents.

 

 

1: the cooling fans turn on and off at will (under normal conditions). they turn on when you drive, you just don't know it.

 

2: the problem will be easily fixable if you take it in to a garage. langston subaru is very good.

 

3: good to see someone where from the area!

[bart2546]

Ok did the whole self self-diagnostics thing, only code that it spit out was 2 long blinks and 1 quick blink, so if I'm getting this right, the code is 21. Please is someone knows what this is, let me know, and don't let this stop you from helping me but if I can't get it with this, I'm going down to the dealer and buying myself a brand new subaru. I'm tired of messing with repairing cars. Thanks.

 

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

[1 Lucky Texan]

Ok did the whole self self-diagnostics thing, only code that it spit out was 2 long blinks and 1 quick blink, so if I'm getting this right, the code is 21. Please is someone knows what this is, let me know, and don't let this stop you from helping me but if I can't get it with this, I'm going down to the dealer and buying myself a brand new subaru. I'm tired of messing with repairing cars. Thanks.

 

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

 

I'll let you look for yourself - but if this link is right for your car, you're not gonna like what it says;

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/80s/specs/ecucodes.html

 

 

 

Carl

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

Ok did the whole self self-diagnostics thing, only code that it spit out was 2 long blinks and 1 quick blink, so if I'm getting this right, the code is 21. Please is someone knows what this is, let me know, and don't let this stop you from helping me but if I can't get it with this, I'm going down to the dealer and buying myself a brand new subaru. I'm tired of messing with repairing cars. Thanks.

 

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

 

what are you getting? from where?

[nipper]

Ok did the whole self self-diagnostics thing, only code that it spit out was 2 long blinks and 1 quick blink, so if I'm getting this right, the code is 21. Please is someone knows what this is, let me know, and don't let this stop you from helping me but if I can't get it with this, I'm going down to the dealer and buying myself a brand new subaru. I'm tired of messing with repairing cars. Thanks.

 

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

 

Haynes actually says what makes perfect sense, a bad coolant temp sensor or circuit malfunction

 

nipper

[bart2546]

Ok so each one, no matter what model, states the coolant temp. sensor or circuit. Well it must be a circuit because I just replaced the temp. sensor and i still have the exact same problem. Now I am not trying to brag anything up or something of the sort but the wiring and everything on my car is CLEAN, and I discovered this basically by looking through connectors and wiring, no dirt, no loose connections and no cuts or crimps, now I know this could still be electrical flow itself, but I wouldn't know where to begin or what...as far as getting a new car I'm looking into a subaru baja and if not that, I may be leaving the subaru world and go for a toyota, nothing other than a RAV 4 however if I go toyota.

 

Regards,

 

Brandon Bartolomucci

[nipper]

So you have a 10 year old car with a problem and your going to fault subaru for it. Things break with time

i also assume you havent gotten a manual yet.

For what it is worth, from what i can tell is that there are four relays involved in the circuit in the USA models. There is a Sub Fan Water Temperiture relay, a Main Fan AC Relay, a Main Fan Relay, and a Sub Fan A/c Relay. When The Main AC relay comes in, it trips the SUb Fan Relay. These are controlled by the AC relay. If there is low pressure in the AC system it will affect the running of the fans too. I would check the AC relay and its feeds. How is your air conditioning. Does it do this with all the hvac controls in the off position.

One possability - Pulling the AC relay should kill the erratic fan operation if the HVAC control is causing it.

Second Possability - Thermo Evap switch may be acting crazy and turning the fans on and off.

Third possability, do you have one or two temp sensors, one for the gauge and one for the computer

It is much easier to trouble shoot this with a manual in front of you (and not that complicated a circuit), and way too difficult to do on line.

 

nipper

[bart2546]

It does do all of the same symptoms with A/C on or off, and heater on or off, I deffinitely wanted to test that, now the other thing is, my A/C is very cold, I just re-charged it last summer and it runs like it's new. As a matter of fact, if it's possible or if it's mental I'm not sure, but after I replaced my coolant temp. sensor it felt like it got even colder. And yes I have had a chiltons manual from when I bought the car. I just don't know where to go for reference. I see in the under-hood fuse/relay box there are 5 A/C relay/fuses under there, know which one it is that I should pull? And as far as blaming subaru for anything...no I do not, I love subaru still, it is an old car and going this long without problems and about 130,000 miles, 40 of those my own with no problems. The only reason I would go to Toyota is because the car prices I've been looking at in my area seem to fit what I could buy better than subaru could. I would still recommend subaru to anyone at anytime. P.S. I have two sensors, one with just one lead that controls the temp gauge, the other one is the one I replaced, with two leads one for the ECU and one for the fans, from what I understand. I'll go ahead and find the one that I need to pull to test in my manual if you can just provide the name of it.

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

[nipper]

It does do all of the same symptoms with A/C on or off, and heater on or off, I deffinitely wanted to test that, now the other thing is, my A/C is very cold, I just re-charged it last summer and it runs like it's new. As a matter of fact, if it's possible or if it's mental I'm not sure, but after I replaced my coolant temp. sensor it felt like it got even colder. And yes I have had a chiltons manual from when I bought the car. I just don't know where to go for reference. I see in the under-hood fuse/relay box there are 5 A/C relay/fuses under there, know which one it is that I should pull? And as far as blaming subaru for anything...no I do not, I love subaru still, it is an old car and going this long without problems and about 130,000 miles, 40 of those my own with no problems. The only reason I would go to Toyota is because the car prices I've been looking at in my area seem to fit what I could buy better than subaru could. I would still recommend subaru to anyone at anytime.

 

Regards,

Brandon Bartolomucci

 

If you can get a haynes, in the back it has the wiring diagram fairly clearly laid out. I've never been a fan of chiltons. Are the relays marked under the relay cover, i think they should be.

Main fan realy under dash on left side

in the box uiunder the hood you have

ac fuse (working from the nose back)

ac main fan relay 1

ac sub relay 2

ac fan relay 2

ac comp relay

 

i think thats the order

 

nipper

[bart2546]

They are labeled, in the lid of the cover, just labeled oddly I would think, generally the fuses I pulled earlier were (under hood) the Sub Fan I believe is what it said and (under dash) main fan...small fuses that is. However, all the A/C ones are labeled just A/C SBF and no furthur details...But I'll try pulling each A/C one when I get home from work tonight one at a time and see if that changes anything as I pull them. Thank you.

 

Brandon