patkennedy78 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I've searched a bunch and read the USRM article on the rear disc conversion. It seems pretty straight forward once you have all the parts. My question comes in on what donar to get the parts, I understand it has to be turbo. I have a 92 Loyale Sedan 4wd 5spd. So I should be able to get the discs from any 4wd 5spd turbo ea82? Or does it have to be a 4wd 5spd turbo ea82 Sedan? I only saw one post that talks about the sedans having smaller calipers. What is the difference in disc/caliper size, and can the larger wagon size fit on the Loyale Sedan? http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59469&page=2&highlight=rear+disc There's really a lot more differences than people here realize - for example there are two sizes of rear discs - wagon/coupe and sedan. For some reason the sedan got smaller rear calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Legos... From what I understand, any EA82-style vehicle could have been ordered with rear discs. The Turbos seem to have come standard with them, so they are the ones to check. As long as you have the full set-up from an EA82-style, it should fit any other EA82-style (as long as you take into account FWD or 4WD). There seems to be some debate as to whether the Sedan and Wagon have the same sizes; I have not seen them side-by-side so can offer no insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Doesnt matter, the calipers will work no matter what you chose. Ive used Sedan rear disks on EA81 wagons, and Wagon rear disks on EA81's as well. As long as you use all the parts from the donor you should be fine. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I have seen them together, the sedans' calipers are noticably smaller and the pads are smaller as well. Legos... From what I understand, any EA82-style vehicle could have been ordered with rear discs. The Turbos seem to have come standard with them, so they are the ones to check. As long as you have the full set-up from an EA82-style, it should fit any other EA82-style (as long as you take into account FWD or 4WD). There seems to be some debate as to whether the Sedan and Wagon have the same sizes; I have not seen them side-by-side so can offer no insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Thanks for your replys! It seems to be that both will fit and work properly, correct? I guess bigger discs and calipers aren't a bad thing, unless there is a problem in the proportioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 You should be fine. There is some controversy about whether a proportioning valve needs to be swapped or ignored, and on what years/models of car it might matter. Most people are OK with not swapping the proportioning valve, and I don't think anybody here's had any problems caused by leaving it alone. While I wouldn't want to put sedan calipers on a wagon, there's obviously nothing wrong with putting sedan calipers on a sedan. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 when looking at rockauto.com there seems to be a difference in calipers between the sedan and wagen, but no difference between the rotors and brake pads that fit them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Hey Pat I did the conversion and it is really straight forward as everyone has said.I think the only real part you need to really concentrate on is bleeding the brakes.I did the conv. on my hatch and it is one of the more easy mods I have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Thanks everyone, I'm going to grab the 1st clean set I can find. I'm going to try and put in a new master cylinder at the same time, so I'll just prepare for a brake bleeding extravaganza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Thanks everyone, I'm going to grab the 1st clean set I can find. I'm going to try and put in a new master cylinder at the same time, so I'll just prepare for a brake bleeding extravaganza. Just a small bit of advice: Do the rear brake conversion first and verify everything is working properly. THEN replace the master cylinder and re-bleed the brakelines. I've never had a problem with the rear brake conversion, but I have had issues when replacing the master cylinder. If you do both together and have a problem you'll not know which end of the car is the cause of the problem. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Good Point, thanks ed. I've never done a bleed or mc before, but I know how important it is, so I'll make sure to read up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Ok, I saw two turbo wagons at pull n save. <<Caution, noob @ work>> one has the rear tires off, so i can see the calipers, they look ok at best. But the thing is I can't get the wheels to stop spinning to remove the castle nut and 4 hub bolts. I'm a noob, so go easy, but shouldn't I be able to put the d/r 5spd into 4 low and stop the back tires from spinning? I can spin the tire and watch the drive shaft turn under the car, maybe there is something up with the clutch. So should I go fo brick on the brake pedal kind of thing? Oh wait, I think pull n save drains the fluids. Lil help here please. the other has the wheels on, so I can't see the calipers too well. But on this one the rear diff has been totally taken out. So the axels are not connected on that end. Again, the wheels turn freely. How do i go about tearing into this? I wedged another tire under there but it's not tight enough. Two votes for the brick? Am I just missing something really obvious here:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Take a bar and stick it between the lugs. Use a long bar, then rotate the caliper so the bar hits the ground, and the lugs keep it from rotating. That or bring a buddy and have him sit on the brakes. But sometimes that doesnt work if the rotors are rusty. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I've never gotten the "pry bar thru the lugs" trick to work. It either slips out, or digs a divot into the dirt and then spins out, or it FLEXES while I'm trying to break the nut and boings out. I should be missing some teeth but I'm lucky. Most yards will cut brake lines somewhere on the car too, so you can't use pedal pressure in most cases. I will either clamp a vise-grip just clockwise of the caliper or I will put a steelie back on the rear and snug a couple of lugs finger-tight, and then stick a pry bar through the steelie's slots and wedge it against the caliper. I use a breaker bar with the 36mm socket on it for the nut, and sometimes I'll grab a long straight section of exhaut pipe to slide over the breaker bar to multiply my leverage. And he who goes rear disc-brake hunting without PB Blaster is in for a lousy time; it helps with the axle nut and with a wire brush, it is invaluable for cleaning the axle hub before and during removal of the backing plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yeah rear disk removal in a junkyard has to be one of the toughest junk yard jobs ive done. Find a steel rim and try it that way, ive had success with the pry bar in the lugs trick, but it may lead to bleeding knuckles and/or excessive use of swear words. PB Blaster goes along way. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I never have this fabled "removal problem" - at least not anymore. Don't leave home without it. http://bfyobsoleteparts.com/volkswagen/files/master/thumbs/t_9530.jpg With one, you can simply hold the hub in your hand, and use this like an impact. Works every time, and it's fast. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yeah, I gotta get one of those. My way works fine but involves a lot more effort Have you ever tried that flywheel lock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I never have this fabled "removal problem" - at least not anymore. Don't leave home without it. http://bfyobsoleteparts.com/volkswagen/files/master/thumbs/t_9530.jpg With one, you can simply hold the hub in your hand, and use this like an impact. Works every time, and it's fast. GD I can't tell...what is that? I've gotten it off using pedal pressure before. our yards don't mess with brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I can't tell...what is that? I've gotten it off using pedal pressure before. our yards don't mess with brakes. VW axle nut removal tool - the rear of pre-1964 buses use the same size (36mm) as the EA subaru's. Except they are torqued to 250 lbs - a full 100 lbs more than a Subaru. The VW guys developed this "hand impact" for removing them, and it works very well for Subarus too. One end gets a 1/2" breaker bar (or not - I don't use anything), and then you pound on it with a BFH. I use a copper mallet as it gives a clean dead blow, and doesn't bounce much. For $9, even if you do the occasional axle job, it's well worth having. The axle nut is so large, than ever a fairly powerful air impact will not usually loosen them - and if you have an electric impact - forget it. Never tried the flywheel lock... where would you mount it on a soob? I generally bump the starter, or I'll thread rope down a cylinder. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 How does that tool keep the rotor from spinning? -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 It doesn't - but the sharp blow works like an impact - you can just let it spin as it will impart most of it's energy into loosening the nut. Some will be spent spinning the hub too. I just line it up and hit it - rinse, repeat. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I use my electric impact tool from Harbor Freight. Works every time for the castle nut and the lug nuts are a cinch. Definitely get some PB Blaster to help with the rear backing plate. I've found spraying it on and then scraping off the rust with a knife or wire brush make getting the backing plate off much easier. Also, save all the hardware; you never know when you might need it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yeah rear disk removal in a junkyard has to be one of the toughest junk yard jobs ive done. Alright, I feel better, I'm not missing something terribly obvious. Thanks for the tips. I probably won't make it back today, but maybe sunday. I'll keep ya updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 It doesn't. He mentioned that he holds the rotor with his hand; I think I'd still opt for the vise grips on the rotor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 It doesn't. He mentioned that he holds the rotor with his hand; I think I'd still opt for the vise grips on the rotor. I don't usually hold it at all really - just like an impact wrench, most of the force of your hammer blow will go into loosening the nut. I just hit it and then reposistion for the next hit. Usually even at the junk yard there is enough drag on the hub as long as it's connected to the axle still. If the axles are gone then I would just hold it - it's not hard on your hands really. I guess you have to see to understand, but trust me for $9 plus shipping, it's well worth picking one up for your tool bag. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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