Jack in Norfolk Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Very interesting. I have been discussing this with my esteemed collegue (my golden retriever). We have decided that there is no way that this could work without a flux capacitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Very interesting.I have been discussing this with my esteemed collegue (my golden retriever). We have decided that there is no way that this could work without a flux capacitor. thought you needed the the Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator. At least thats what the bunny says :cool: nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack in Norfolk Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 thought you needed the the Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator. At least thats what the bunny says :cool: nipper I'm going to have to defer to my collegue on that one. He is the brains of the operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 thought you needed the the Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator. At least thats what the bunny says :cool: nipper I thought that was what Marvin said. I am pretty sure it wasn't his dog, as he didn't talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I thought that was what Marvin said. I am pretty sure it wasn't his dog, as he didn't talk. Marvins was explosive. Bugs bunny has used the line on occasion, and we all know daffy duck doesnt drive a subaru, he cant say it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack in Norfolk Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 The cat is weighing in now. Something about needing a flying phone booth with an antenna rigged w/ delmonte fruit cans; oh, and a water pump from a Corvair Monza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobs Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 It is funny now , but once upon a time.... the world was flat. Some still believe it! http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/FlatHome.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HATCHY Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 They have water welders/. that can turn a 2 inch ball of iron glowing red. in les then 8 sec, and then you can touch your finger right on the torch tip.... :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HATCHY Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 tesla is really interesting. He had a thing built. where you could plug right into the soil in his backyad and have power.. wierd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobs Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 tesla is really interesting. He had a thing built. where you could plug right into the soil in his backyad and have power.. wierd If Tesla’s most important inventions hadn’t been covered up by big business, this world would be MUCH different today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HATCHY Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yeah I agree He had some seriouslly unbeleivable projects. I ahve the tesla book here. Everytime I look at it it amazes me and Ive looked through it so so so many times. Wierd Wierd stuff. I think the world would be a much diffrent place JACOBS:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexx Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hmm ... How about this? Denny Klein http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obe-5vIHJms And Stanley Meyer's water powered Dune Buggy and It Runs on Water... Granted, they're not soobies ... but... I was told that Stanley Meyers drove across the country on approximately 22 gallons of water, and that some time thereafter he was poisoned in an Ohio Restaurant and died in the restaurant, and that he screamed out, "I've been poisoned" just before he collapsed and died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 3rd item down on: http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-05/052606action.html Water is not fuel. It is already burned Hydrogen. Making Hydrogen & Oxygen from water takes significantly more energy than you get from burning the resulting Hydrogen & Oxygen. The welding torch thing is very old tech. They never caught on - F'n dangerous, and made bad welds. Hydrogen & Oxygen stored in the same container (implied by the idea of HHO gas, which is improper use of chemical syntax) is EXTREMLY unstable. Worse than Acetylene. No surprise the tip of the torch isn't hot - the burning is taking place outside of the tip. The gas moving through the tip would keep it cool. These things go in cycles. Crazy claims by scammer / dupe / nieve person. Clueless reporters fall for it. Eventually gets debunked. Never goes anywhere. Conspiracy theoreies abound. Fades away. Siome years later, resurfaces with similar claims, similar bad "science", cycle starts over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 ... Bugs bunny has used the line on occasion, and we all know daffy duck doesnt drive a subaru, he cant say it Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexx Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 These things go in cycles. Crazy claims by scammer / dupe / naive person. Clueless reporters fall for it. Eventually gets debunked. Never goes anywhere. Conspiracy theories abound. Fades away. Siome years later, resurfaces with similar claims, similar bad "science", cycle starts over. You didn't mean motorcycles did you? It's a shame the reporter didn't actually demand to drive the water vehicle for a day or two, Meyers could have simply followed him in another car if the water car was not big enough for two people. I've heard that the oil companies regularly buy patents from inventors that have a breakthrough product. For instance, battery technology has really advance by the oil companies may have bought up the latest technology to foil electric car advances. Apparently charging an electric car costs around a buck, making it something like 10 times more efficient than a fuel based car. Although I don't know what happens to the batteries once they are no longer functioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 You didn't mean motorcycles did you? It's a shame the reporter didn't actually demand to drive the water vehicle for a day or two, Meyers could have simply followed him in another car if the water car was not big enough for two people. I've heard that the oil companies regularly buy patents from inventors that have a breakthrough product. For instance, battery technology has really advance by the oil companies may have bought up the latest technology to foil electric car advances. Apparently charging an electric car costs around a buck, making it something like 10 times more efficient than a fuel based car. Although I don't know what happens to the batteries once they are no longer functioning. Remember that to get a patent, the item being patented does not have to operate or be functional. There are many many many patents that never worked or un feasable. I hold a few patents, and whne you do the research you see all sorts of silly things. With cars electric or otherwise, it all depends where you want things in the waiste stream, in the begining, middle or end. Electric cars its the end (though batteries in theory are recyclable). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet82 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 What I saw burning in those balloons was alcohol. The color of the flame gives it away. What those guys were smoking was Dope. The invention itself gives that away. The car never did run good when they were messing with it. No Sale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexx Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I went to the first annual altcarexpo and depending on how much it costs to actually charge an electric car, it does seem to actually be much more "fuel efficient" than a gas powered car or even a hybrid. The oil industry did a huge PR job on U.S. consumers back in the 90's to completely diss the use of battery run cars. They basically got their way when it came to declassifying SUV's as trucks, and the U.S. MPG average dropped from around 27.5 mpg to just over 20 miles per gallon in the past 12 years. Additionally, the oil industry apparently did such a good job whining about how electric cars would lead them to bankruptcy that they pretty much killed the integration of the electric car. Whats fascinating about our power grid is that at night there is much more energy available (typically when you would recharge your car) and that as more and more solar and wind energy sources come online, the "grid" gets cleaner as time goes on, so as long as breaking down the battery is not a long term bio hazard, it's a no brainer to integrate battery technology for running our cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexx Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 What I saw burning in those balloons was alcohol. The color of the flame gives it away. What those guys were smoking was Dope. The invention itself gives that away. The car never did run good when they were messing with it. No Sale! Was the car driven across the country, was that a claim or was it actually done? Anybody know anyone who knew Stanley Meyers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I went to the first annual altcarexpo and depending on how much it costs to actually charge an electric car, it does seem to actually be much more "fuel efficient" than a gas powered car or even a hybrid. The oil industry did a huge PR job on U.S. consumers back in the 90's to completely diss the use of battery run cars. They basically got their way when it came to declassifying SUV's as trucks, and the U.S. MPG average dropped from around 27.5 mpg to just over 20 miles per gallon in the past 12 years. Additionally, the oil industry apparently did such a good job whining about how electric cars would lead them to bankruptcy that they pretty much killed the integration of the electric car. Whats fascinating about our power grid is that at night there is much more energy available (typically when you would recharge your car) and that as more and more solar and wind energy sources come online, the "grid" gets cleaner as time goes on, so as long as breaking down the battery is not a long term bio hazard, it's a no brainer to integrate battery technology for running our cars. Oddly GM's ceo when asked what his biggest mistake was, he admited it was killing their electric car program. He said they could have had a hybrid out of that that would had put toyota to shame. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Here is some info on *real* alt. energy cars: http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/ The biggest problem with electric cars right now is cost of batteries & efficency of batteries. I went to one of the Tour de sol events a while back. "Regular guys" have converted cars to electric. You can buy motors, adapters, controllers and everything. For basic getting started decent performace they want 120VDC for the main motor. The most affordable battery for such a conversion is 220AH flooded cell lead acid batteies. Commonly used in lots of industrial equipmnet and golf carts. I use 6 in my electric lawn tractor. Basic quality ones are about $70.00 each. It takes 20 to get 120V, so that's $1400.00 for the battery. If you take the best care possible, lowest possible cycles, lowest possible cycle depth, ideal conditions - even better - never draw current from them - they are good for about 5 years. Sometimes they go longer, but the AH capacity is noticably reduced, so they really aren't the same as new ones. What this means is that the operating cost of an electric car should include the cost of the batteries as well as the electricity to charge them. If electrics do catch on, the government will find a way to collect the significant taxes that they would loose out on. I do like the electric tractor - low maintanance, always read to go, no warm up, no noise. But it costs more because I have to buy batteries periodically. A new set is $420.00 every 5-6 years. I have thought about converting a Loyale wagon. It'd loose the hauling capacity. Have to beef up the suspension just to haul the batteries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexx Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Here is some info on *real* alt. energy cars:http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/ The biggest problem with electric cars right now is cost of batteries & efficency of batteries. I went to one of the Tour de sol events a while back. "Regular guys" have converted cars to electric. You can buy motors, adapters, controllers and everything. For basic getting started decent performace they want 120VDC for the main motor. The most affordable battery for such a conversion is 220AH flooded cell lead acid batteies. Commonly used in lots of industrial equipmnet and golf carts. I use 6 in my electric lawn tractor. Basic quality ones are about $70.00 each. It takes 20 to get 120V, so that's $1400.00 for the battery. If you take the best care possible, lowest possible cycles, lowest possible cycle depth, ideal conditions - even better - never draw current from them - they are good for about 5 years. Sometimes they go longer, but the AH capacity is noticably reduced, so they really aren't the same as new ones. What this means is that the operating cost of an electric car should include the cost of the batteries as well as the electricity to charge them. If electrics do catch on, the government will find a way to collect the significant taxes that they would loose out on. I do like the electric tractor - low maintanance, always read to go, no warm up, no noise. But it costs more because I have to buy batteries periodically. A new set is $420.00 every 5-6 years. I have thought about converting a Loyale wagon. It'd loose the hauling capacity. Have to beef up the suspension just to haul the batteries! I saw a converted car exactly as you described. It was a 1990 rabbit. 8 batteries in the front, 12 in the back. A metal skid was installed under the car to support the batteries. One drawback was it only charged at 110 volts versus 220, but they claimed that was probably better for the life of the battery. Some of the cost savings to consider are, no motor oil, no anti-freeze, and no tune-ups. Over those five years of use, at 12,000 miles a year, one would purchase approximately 2,500 gallons of gas, aka between $5,000 to $6,500 in fuel expenses. I don't know how much electricity would cost to charge the batteries approximately 600 times to reach 60,000 miles, but at two bucks a charge that would only be $1,200.00 There does appear to be a significant math savings. I suppose the downside is the safety of these cars. If that battery loaded rabbit rear ends anybody, it will probably feel like a sledgehammer to the car that gets hit from behind by the Rabbit. One of those battery cars goes spinning out of control on an icy road, yikes. However, there are allegations that the oil companies bought up the best battery technology and are sitting on it, this technology may significantly reduce the weight issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Slower charge rate is better for the batteries, and efficiency. 220AH x 120V = 26400WH = 26.4KWH. 26.4KWH at $0.18/KWH = $4.752 per charge. The charge efficiency is something around 30-50%, so increas the per charge cost by 40%, it is arouund $6.65. Cycle life of these batteries is 300-500 cycles. 5 year life is under ideal conditions - no or few or very shallow discharge cycles. The suspension and brakes need to be upgraded to handle the extra weight. My main worry about driving a car full of batteries is where the acid might end up in an accident. All over the driver & passengers. From my looking around a while back, motor controllers & motors were in the low to mid $1000. for each. 120V was the minimum ok voltage. Higher gives better performance, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-electric car, Just trying to be realistic. I might still convert one someday. There is such a large demand for batteries with more capacity, lighter weight, smaller volume for so many applications that I doubt anyone could "cover up" or stop a real development / improvement. These can help with surges that most batteries have trouble with: http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/products/large-cell/bcap0650.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 However, there are allegations that the oil companies bought up the best battery technology and are sitting on it, this technology may significantly reduce the weight issue. One of the companies around here (Energy Conversion Devices, Inc.) got virtually bought-out by GM, and then in-turn wholy bought-out Chevron Texaco. It virtually put a halt to that company's battery research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexx Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Slower charge rate is better for the batteries, and efficiency. 220AH x 120V = 26400WH = 26.4KWH. 26.4KWH at $0.18/KWH = $4.752 per charge. The charge efficiency is something around 30-50%, so increas the per charge cost by 40%, it is arouund $6.65. Cycle life of these batteries is 300-500 cycles. 5 year life is under ideal conditions - no or few or very shallow discharge cycles. The suspension and brakes need to be upgraded to handle the extra weight. My main worry about driving a car full of batteries is where the acid might end up in an accident. All over the driver & passengers. From my looking around a while back, motor controllers & motors were in the low to mid $1000. for each. 120V was the minimum ok voltage. Higher gives better performance, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-electric car, Just trying to be realistic. I might still convert one someday. There is such a large demand for batteries with more capacity, lighter weight, smaller volume for so many applications that I doubt anyone could "cover up" or stop a real development / improvement. These can help with surges that most batteries have trouble with: http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/products/large-cell/bcap0650.asp Very informative, so we're up to 5 bucks a charge, range not known. "Who killed the electric car" is an excellent documentary to check out, it's available on DVD. I haven't viewed it yet but one thing I did hear was that the oil companies did indeed buy up some type of battery patents and are sitting on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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