nevbrat Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 i was just wondering how those whom have this set up like it. if they have fast take off? how fast can they drive on the freeway? compare it to a 4 speed if possible. i want to do the swap but cant find the tranny. i wondering if i should do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I love it. Major points, in order of importance: 1. far, far better linkage. Smoother shifting, less play 2. Way better mounts. The 4's mounts are tiny, and just generally suck. The 5's mounts have twice as much rubber, and the 5's is lighter besides. 2. 3rd gear - it's between 2nd and 3rd on the 4, so allows decent RPM at 25 MPH. 3. Lower "Lo" gear. 1.59:1 compared to the 4's 1.45:1 4. Better clutch combinations possible - XT6 for example. 5. Better T.O. bearing design (see #4). 6. Easier to find parts for 7. More rugged - due to the improved linkage, there's no tendancy to partial engagment of reverse (resulting in eventual destruction of the reverse shift dog), and the syncro design is superior so 2nd and 3rd don't grind like the 4's do. 8. Longer lasting. I have several 5's well over 200,000 that still shift like new, and one that's over 300,000 without any noticeable degredation of performance. On the other hand I have 3 blown 4's in the garage - all with less than 200k on them. As for your question about gearing - there's no appreciable difference between the 83+ 4 speed gearing and the 5 speed D/R gearing other than the addition of 3rd gear between 2nd and 3rd on the 4. 2 is lowered a bit, and 4 is raised as well, but the gear *range* covered by 1 though 4 and 1 through 5 respectively is not altered enough to notice at all. Acceleration is improved simply beacause you don't have to wind out so high before shifting, but the top speed is going to be the same with either one. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 in other words GD,it's about a 1000 rpm lower all the way around . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 in other words GD,it's about a 1000 rpm lower all the way around . well - yeah it's just like driving the 82 4 speed, but with an extra overdrive gear. None of these trannies are particularly good for "race" applications. The syncro's aren't built for it, and the 5 speed has TWO overdrive gears GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevbrat Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 two overdrive gears? does that mean i could drive faster on the freeway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Not really. The 4th gear on the 83+ 4spds is actually higher than the 5th gear on the 5spds (0.769 vs 0.780). On the 5spds, there just another gear lower than 0.78, but still above 1.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoTGrimes Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 If you want the possible gears possible within reason, you'll want a 5 speed and 3.7 gears front and rear if it's 4WD. I wanted to do it (search 3.9 to 3.7 swap doing?) but my idea was shot down due to cost and how much work it involved. If running at 4000+ rpms that bothers you, don't worry these engines can take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevbrat Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 i am concerened with the rpms on the freeway. i havent really gone over 3500. i didnt think that was good for the engine. how hi can the rpms be substained on freeway? and rpm's definately will lower on freeway with 5 speed. i dont really understain the gearing # well right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevbrat Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 if i did due 3.7 front & rear what would driving be like? street? offroading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 First off, what year is your EA81? Second, if you're going from an 83+ 4spd to a 5 spd, the difference in the final gears is not much at all. If you go from an 80-82 4spd to a 83+ 4spd or a 5spd, the difference will be noticeable. Don't worry about running your engine at 3500 down the freeway. I've had numerous cars that was typical engine speed for the highway, and the subarus are no exception. They can run at 3500 all day long without breaking a sweat. Hell, the aircraft people run 'em at higher speeds for longer without trouble. Its a lot of work to swap a 3.7 diff into the front, so get that out of your head unless you really know what you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 there really isn't a good freeway combination in any EA82 tranny. the ones with a 3.7 axle ratio have lower 4th and 5th gears so they're actually worse. not that bad of a swap, just have to swap the inner axle cups and rear diff aswell. but there really aren't any gains (unless you're going for the full-time 4WD). I'm working on a hybrid trans so I can get some better gearing, but it won't help much. it sounds great that it has 2 overdrives, but the axle ratios and tire sizes kill any advantages you might get. check out the gear ratios here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/80s/mick/gear-ratios.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevbrat Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 i have an 86 brat non turbo d/r 3.90 i assume, & i found a trans at the junk yard unfortunately its a 86 turbo d/r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 4,000 is nothing for the EA engines. The aircraft guys run their EA81's at 7,000 all day. That's their "cruise" speed. My Brat w/5 speed is at 3500 RPM at 80 MPH.... that's a bit too fast anyway, and the RPM is no concern. And I rarely shift any of my engines before 6,000. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I haven't driven my 5 speed car for a while due to a few problems that developed after WCSS8, but I love it. I came from a 3 speed auto in that car so the difference was huge. I don't have to downshift on the freeway to pass, and having extra ratios means I can keep the engine in its powerband, even if some of those gears are overdriven. To summerize this entire thread, DO THE SWAP!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 4,000 is nothing for the EA engines. The aircraft guys run their EA81's at 7,000 all day. That's their "cruise" speed. My Brat w/5 speed is at 3500 RPM at 80 MPH.... that's a bit too fast anyway, and the RPM is no concern. And I rarely shift any of my engines before 6,000. GD hmmm, your ea81's must have some major breathing improvements made to them, cuz they really don't enjoy much over 5k in stock form, power pretty well goes to crap, and i know for sure those synchro's you spoke about must not like you very much, and with that kind of abuse/missuse its no wonder why you say you have three broken ea81 d/r's laying around, under "normal" driving of my teenage years i had a 86 brat with the stock transmission at 212k with abosulutely no grinds at all in any gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoTGrimes Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Aircraft owners typically have lots and lots of money to spend on custom made parts to make their engines uber-reliable and efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 hmmm, your ea81's must have some major breathing improvements made to them, cuz they really don't enjoy much over 5k in stock form, power pretty well goes to crap, and i know for sure those synchro's you spoke about must not like you very much Delta cam, valve job with stronger springs, new lifters, SPFI, 1600 pistons, chrome rings, .025" off the heads, etc And the other one I'm driving lately is an EA82 SPFI block with a Weber. It redlines at 6 anyway, and freely revs to 7500 due to the SPFI valve train. and with that kind of abuse/missuse its no wonder why you say you have three broken ea81 d/r's laying around More correctly I should say I have TWO in the garage, and the third is still in my wagon. But the first two weren't blown by me. They came out of other people's rigs that I didn't swaps for. One has NO 3rd gear syncro, one has severe grinding on 2nd, and the one in my wagon has no reverse shift dog (you can put it in reverse, but the car won't move). I did blow the one from my wagon, but it was partly due to poor linkage from flat transmission mounts. I fabbed up EA82 mounts for it, but it was too late as the damage to the shift dog was already done. under "normal" driving of my teenage years i had a 86 brat with the stock transmission at 212k with abosulutely no grinds at all in any gear They can last 200k or more if you are careful with them and keep the linkage tight. But the 5 speed's still last longer, and the linkage is superior. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Delta cam, valve job with stronger springs, new lifters, SPFI, 1600 pistons, chrome rings, .025" off the heads, etc And the other one I'm driving lately is an EA82 SPFI block with a Weber. It redlines at 6 anyway, and freely revs to 7500 due to the SPFI valve train. More correctly I should say I have TWO in the garage, and the third is still in my wagon. But the first two weren't blown by me. They came out of other people's rigs that I didn't swaps for. One has NO 3rd gear syncro, one has severe grinding on 2nd, and the one in my wagon has no reverse shift dog (you can put it in reverse, but the car won't move). I did blow the one from my wagon, but it was partly due to poor linkage from flat transmission mounts. I fabbed up EA82 mounts for it, but it was too late as the damage to the shift dog was already done. They can last 200k or more if you are careful with them and keep the linkage tight. But the 5 speed's still last longer, and the linkage is superior. GD i'm happy for you, but we never touched the transmission linkage from 23k when we bought it all the way up until it was sold, and as i said i was a teenage driver, i didn't really take care of much of anything at the time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Rick, I gotta ask why you're even hanging onto those old 4-speeds anyway, you don't own a boat, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Rick, I gotta ask why you're even hanging onto those old 4-speeds anyway, you don't own a boat, do you? They are both 82's with different problems and the 82 gearing is nice..... so I had thought to make one good one from the parts. But as it stands now I'm out of the 4 speed game completely having swapped or in the process of swapping all my rigs over. So now they probably are going to the scrap man soon. They are just burried under a TON of other subaru parts. Several dissasembled engines, and a mass of twisted manifolds, and misc. parts. I do have a good 85 4 speed from my Brat that's in relatively good shape with 180k on it. Last 50k was me, and it's never been off-road. I'll probably get $25 for it from a member. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 They are both 82's with different problems and the 82 gearing is nice..... so I had thought to make one good one from the parts. But as it stands now I'm out of the 4 speed game completely having swapped or in the process of swapping all my rigs over. So now they probably are going to the scrap man soon. They are just burried under a TON of other subaru parts. Several dissasembled engines, and a mass of twisted manifolds, and misc. parts. I do have a good 85 4 speed from my Brat that's in relatively good shape with 180k on it. Last 50k was me, and it's never been off-road. I'll probably get $25 for it from a member. GD if you want to sell the good one check with rdnkbrt, he was looking for one a while back and is on your end of the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Delta cam, valve job with stronger springs, new lifters, SPFI, 1600 pistons, chrome rings, .025" off the heads, etc And the other one I'm driving lately is an EA82 SPFI block with a Weber. It redlines at 6 anyway, and freely revs to 7500 due to the SPFI valve train. More correctly I should say I have TWO in the garage, and the third is still in my wagon. But the first two weren't blown by me. They came out of other people's rigs that I didn't swaps for. One has NO 3rd gear syncro, one has severe grinding on 2nd, and the one in my wagon has no reverse shift dog (you can put it in reverse, but the car won't move). I did blow the one from my wagon, but it was partly due to poor linkage from flat transmission mounts. I fabbed up EA82 mounts for it, but it was too late as the damage to the shift dog was already done. They can last 200k or more if you are careful with them and keep the linkage tight. But the 5 speed's still last longer, and the linkage is superior. GD the mods that you have done to your motor, is it possible to do it to mine?(ea71) and what could i do if i wanted to put a 5 speed onto that motor(or 6 ) what steps would i have to take? what tranny would i have to look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 only six speed is the sti, a pricey tranny to say the least, and since you have a top mount starter ea71 i'd say a d/r spd isn't too likely, you could always go with an ea81 swap, and then do 5spd, some mods are neccesitated but not out of the realistic range, then most asuredly you could do his mods to your motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 the mods that you have done to your motor, is it possible to do it to mine?(ea71) and what could i do if i wanted to put a 5 speed onto that motor(or 6 ) what steps would i have to take? what tranny would i have to look for? Best to start your own thread instead of hijacking someone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 the mods that you have done to your motor, is it possible to do it to mine?(ea71) Not really, no. The EA71 has too many disadvantages (solid lifters, too small for the SPFI manifold, etc). Get an EA81 and then you can do all that, and the 5 speed. 6 speed is WAY out of your price range / technical abilities. It's got computer controlled VC's, and a strong clutch that would require at least hydrualic actuation. Then there's the matter of the adaptor plate, custom flyhwheel, etc. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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