idosubaru Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 replaced the timing belt for a friend on his EA82. that was earlier this year so it doesn't have many miles on it, 15k maybe. i replaced all the pulleys and tensioners as well. it was an ebay kit....maybe this is my first experience with "lesser" quality or is something else possible? the front main seal was leaking profusely for awhile, spattering oil everywhere and soaking the timing belt. would that cause a belt to break after 15k or 9 months, i wouldn't think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 What will happen is the oil will drastically reduce the life span of ANY timing belt. The oil breaks down the timing belt to the point of becoming weak, then one day when merging onto a freeway and putting more then normal stress on the weak belt, it snaps. It would have happened regardless if it was an OEM belt or a NAPA belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Yeah any kinda Oil, Brake fluid ect.. Will break down the propertys of rubber and it will eventually snap:( A question I have is: What happens if you're driving along and the belt that powers the Oil pump (passenger side IIRC) snaps? Will the vehicle stall before any damage is done? And how likely is a belt(s) with 100,000 on it to break under normal driving (shift's 2700-3200rpm) And the car doesn't get drivin around alot. It Just get's started to charge the batt and get the moister out. Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Yeah any kinda Oil, Brake fluid ect.. Will break down the propertys of rubber and it will eventually snap:( A question I have is: What happens if you're driving along and the belt that powers the Oil pump (passenger side IIRC) snaps? Will the vehicle stall before any damage is done? And how likely is a belt(s) with 100,000 on it to break under normal driving (shift's 2700-3200rpm) And the car doesn't get drivin around alot. It Just get's started to charge the batt and get the moister out. Car will die almost immediately if the driver belt breaks. Disty stops turning=no spark. no damage As far a timing belt with over 100k. It could break any time. I'd replace it before i driving it anywhere you don't want to walk home from. Replace all the seals (cam, crank, and probably all 3 oil pump seals) while you're in there. Do the water pump if you got the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 The oil breaks down the timing belt really, in 9 months or less? that quick? granted...the crank seal was spewing oil at an enormous rate....but i still would have thought it would last longer than that. everyone agrees oil will destroy the belt in 9 months or less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 And how likely is a belt(s) with 100,000 on it to break under normal driving (shift's 2700-3200rpm) And the car doesn't get drivin around alot. It Just get's started to charge the batt and get the moister out. Just wondering. Well - the answer of course is that it already has. No EA82 belt would ever last that long. They are lucky to last 60k - usually breaking around 50k or 55k. So the answer is to find out when it was last done. With 100k you are probably looking at a minimum of 40k on the belt, or a max of around 60k. Wonder no more.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill90Loyale Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 really, in 9 months or less? that quick? granted...the crank seal was spewing oil at an enormous rate....but i still would have thought it would last longer than that. everyone agrees oil will destroy the belt in 9 months or less? My last set of belts lasted only 45K miles instead of the standard 60K. Wonder if there may be an issue in production or materials....just another data point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 everyone agrees oil will destroy the belt in 9 months or less? Yes definitely. Oil will soak into the belt material (it's rubber and fiber, so it's porous - take a look at the ribs on the belt and you will see the embeded fibers). Engine heat will cook that oil and cause the belt material to become brittle. Heat is the enemy of rubber and the oil will absorb heat - it's very much like dunking potatoes in hot grease - you get french fries and they are definately more brittle than raw potatoes..... make sense? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 My last set of belts lasted only 45K miles instead of the standard 60K. Wonder if there may be an issue in production or materials....just another data point. i doubt it. keep in mind how old everything else is. have you replaced or regreased all of the timing pulley bearings? that alone could cause more heat and reduce the life of the belts. and then in the course of a few years and 45k on a 20 year old car it's probably likely the belt got some oil, grease, or antifreeze on it as well. see last 5 posts!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 go naked and have tools, instructions, belts ready, back on road in a few minutes, less time than removing the covers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 go naked i started doing it years ago before it became the constant USMB debate. but his is not my car, not my choice. replaced the timing belt for a friend cool, maybe we can argue that without covers this timing belt would have lasted longer! less oil would have been contained by the covers and dripping on the belt...it would have spattered all over the hood, radiator and everything else, but dispersed further away such that less was left to drip on the belt? oh yeah, let's start the no cover verses cover thing again...20 pages here we come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Well - the answer of course is that it already has. No EA82 belt would ever last that long. They are lucky to last 60k - usually breaking around 50k or 55k. So the answer is to find out when it was last done. With 100k you are probably looking at a minimum of 40k on the belt, or a max of around 60k. Wonder no more.... GD So you they were most likely replaced once, Good that takes a little off my mind. As for finding anything out about when and where stuff was replaced IDK? I don't really know anything about the car. The owners stoped taking it to it's ragular Maintenance at the Subaru dealer in like 1996. And that's all that Maintenance book shows that came with that car. And I bought it from a really bad used lot. I would do the Timing belts, New Oil pump and seals, Cam cap O-ring's and seals but I can't get my dad motovatied to help me with it:rolleyes: So I guess when a belt go's and I can't drive anywhere then it wil get thru his head. (I just needed to fume) Sorry, I don't want to steal a thread. But thank's for the peice of mine about the belts. Yeah I kinda figured if the drivers side went it would stall. Like you said "The Disty an't spinning and no spark" Thank's again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I agree with nakidity personal experience: vw diesel 1.6 only used the bottom cover, kept out the rocks, with the top cover removed, was able to check condition of belt daily, and it was able to sling off the diesel and oil ea82 front covers removed prevented excessive oil buildup, and allowed for daily inspection naked allows roadside changes, always have a good rubber ready :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTrain Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Yeah any kinda Oil, Brake fluid ect.. Will break down the propertys of rubber and it will eventually snap:( A question I have is: What happens if you're driving along and the belt that powers the Oil pump (passenger side IIRC) snaps? Will the vehicle stall before any damage is done? And how likely is a belt(s) with 100,000 on it to break under normal driving (shift's 2700-3200rpm) And the car doesn't get drivin around alot. It Just get's started to charge the batt and get the moister out. Just wondering. why aren't you driving your car? and i may be wrong, but i think you need to actually drive the car to get any moisture out as the motor won't get hot enough just idling there for a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I don't drive it much cause I don't have no where to really go, I would just take it out and drive around but I can't drive alone yet and mom doesn't want to just go for a ride that offen. As for Ideling, I don't just let it idel, I'll hold it at 2000 rpm or so for a few seconds and rev it a little. Just so it gets hot and it runs for 20min or more, But the one thing I noticed was even when I drive it it takes a little bit to get heat (About 15min) Maybe cause I have a Autozone thrmo in it? I like driving my car ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Well - the answer of course is that it already has. No EA82 belt would ever last that long. They are lucky to last 60k - usually breaking around 50k or 55k. I bought an 85 GL with around 130,000 on it. 1 owner, and the original belts. They almost disintegrated in my hand removing them, but they were the originals. Either way THE LOYALE should change those belts. And my vote is to run covers when you live in Wisconsin. Both myself and Milemaker(illinois) have had problems with snow packing in around the engine bay and f...ing with the belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I don't drive it much cause I don't have no where to really go, I would just take it out and drive around but I can't drive alone yet and mom doesn't want to just go for a ride that offen. As for Ideling, I don't just let it idel, I'll hold it at 2000 rpm or so for a few seconds and rev it a little. Just so it gets hot and it runs for 20min or more, But the one thing I noticed was even when I drive it it takes a little bit to get heat (About 15min) Maybe cause I have a Autozone thrmo in it? I like driving my car ya know. Yea it should be heating up quicker than that. My 83 gets up to temp in 5 minutes or less even when its freezing outside. I would check into the thermostat and make sure its operating the way it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yeah I shoud have bought a OEM one fromthe dealer, But I didn't know that then. I'll change it soon. As for the belts and such, Yeah I have everything I need. No I don't have a Water pump but if it go's then I'll worry about it. I'm looking forward to doing the Oil pump and T-belts, But dad doesn't. I think its his pills for Cholesterol and BP (Both have Side affects for feeling Tired) I'm going to run covers, Cause I was thinking about the same thing. And What about salty road water spraying in there (Rust) But it's a good idea thow.. Thank's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Aluminum engine = no rust. I wouldnt worry about spray to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Aluminum engine = no rust. I wouldnt worry about spray to be honest. the cam sprockets and bolts are iron and are rust-happy critters. i can only speak from the MD, WV area, but they rust up very quickly around here when driving with open covers. painting them or driving them often is necessary, mine is a daily driver that gets lots of use so no worries here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 In that case POR15 is your friend..or whatever they are calling it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yeah but even with the covers off, Don't you still have to remove the Rad? Seems like it would be in the way. Maybe not? And just wondering what about salt? Won't that break down the belt sooner too? Just some thoughts I'm having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yeah but even with the covers off, Don't you still have to remove the Rad? Seems like it would be in the way. Maybe not. Nope. And just wondering what about salt? Won't that break down the belt sooner too? Just some thoughts I'm having. Probably. Belt longevity isn't why we run without covers. Belts are cheap, my time isn't. If it shortens the life of the belts by 10,000 miles that's fine - I would rather replace them every 40k and have it take 20 minutes than replace them every 50k and have it take 3 hours. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 if you need POR15 that probably doesn't do timing belts any good. the cams rust, they get pitted and can probably wear the belt quicker. but i still run without them, mine just get rusted on the face. if it's sitting very long like that in this kind of weather and driving that's probably not a good idea, the surface the timing belt rides on will probably start to rust. just a hunch....based on what i've seen. i still run with no covers, but this isn't a "everyone has to do it the same way thing". if you drive a normal amount it won't be an issue. if not, then i guess make your decision accordingly. the EA82 and ER27 engines can all be done without removing the radiator. the XT6 ER27 is far easier to do than the EA82. the clutch fan is the big turd of the EA82. install some electric fans and timing belts are a walk in the park. no covers, no clutch fan....timing belts are like a 10 minute job, no need to pull the radiator. they are amazingly easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 and have it take 20 minutes and that includes getting the tools and clean up. i'm at about 40,000 miles on my current XT6 belts and i've run open covers since I got it. they appear in great shape and i drive in craptastic winter roads...salt, coal, you name it...and off road, high RPM mountain driving, and the car was overheating, and i tow....been beating this one up the past year and the belt is hanging tough so far. interesting discussion i hadn't thought that i'm getting close to tbelt replacement time for the XT6. guess next summer will be a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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