wingspan99 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) I found a running 87 Subaru RX on craigslist and picked it up today. I didn't know it had a dual range tranny, just that it was turbocharged. I own a fast Talon already, but I could use an off-road vehicle besides my suburban. I want to go on jeep trails out here in Colorado. What kinds of maint checks or mods should I start with and what is the largest tire I can put on a stock suspension? Thanks guys, what a great forum. -Tom Andersen, Colorado Springs, CO Edited May 25, 2009 by wingspan99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 First of all, welcome to USMB and the RX Club. Hope you have deeeeeep pockets Try doing a search her EA82T here and in the Retrofit Forum, lots of info in both. The stock engines are very problematic and if your not familiar with Subaru EA82T engines, it can be quite a challenge. The RX is not really suited for offroad use, but its not to bad when it comes to Rally and Rally X. Theres a few members in CO that are RX owners, they might add their .02. Look in my gallery if you want to see mine and do a search for my posts on the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I agree, its not really a wheeling car, its more of a gravel road, smoother dirt field car at most. If you want a true subaru wheeler there are likely some that fit the bill better than this in the for sale section. I know plenty of people would take this RX off your hands. And throw thousands of dollars into it probably Maintenance checks.... on these cars... everything under the hood. Hoses and gaskets LOVE to leak or burst on the EA82T engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingspan99 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Thanks guys. I noticed in the spreadsheet on gear ratios that for the turbocharged 5-speed transmissions the low range yields 1.19 rather than the 1.59 of the other transmissions' low ranges. So this car was designed more for speed running than off-roading? I don't have very deep pockets, if it's going to break I may want to pass it on to someone else who wants it. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Thanks guys. I noticed in the spreadsheet on gear ratios that for the turbocharged 5-speed transmissions the low range yields 1.19 rather than the 1.59 of the other transmissions' low ranges. So this car was designed more for speed running than off-roading? I don't have very deep pockets, if it's going to break I may want to pass it on to someone else who wants it. -Tom Its not a matter of IF, its WHEN. The car is 22yrs old and we know nothing about its history. If its the original engine, its going to need major work if maintenance wasnt kept up. I have alot of time/effort/money invested in mine. I'm pretty anal about everything on it and it uses up alot of my time to keep it running 100%. But damn, its fun when it is 100%. I have Rally X'd it several times, but retired it. It cant hang with the New Gen Subaru's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Yeah - it's going to break - no question about that. To put it in perspective.... if I (or anyone else around here that knows EA series engines) were to purchase an unknown EA82T and wanted to put it into daily driver type condition it would probably take around $1000 in parts and many hours of labor to put it up to spec and be reasonably certain that it wasn't going to leave me stranded. They had undersized cooling systems and the first thing that must be done is replace the radiator with a dual-core and change every hose (there's a lot) in the entire engine bay. Keeping them cool is paramount as the heads and head gaskets will not take even a single overheat at their age. A full reseal of the engine would be in order if DD status were to be assured. Pull the engine - replace head gaskets with fel-pro permatorque's, and replace every other seal on the the thing. New oil and water pumps, new timing belts, and all new tensioners and idler. You WILL NOT get away with anything less than a full engine pull and reseal with new accesories. Really you would probably be lucky if you didn't have to replace the heads with some Gen III's - they tend to crack. Basically with any EA82T purchase you are lucky if you get a runnabl short block (and that is by no means assured). You have to figure the rest is garbage or the rest WILL be garbage when something goes south. Best option is to yank the engine and install a newer Legacy engine without the turbo. More power - no problems. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingspan99 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Yea, I would have to agree with resealing the engine and new rubber lines under the hood, I probably would overhaul with new rings at least. (I just did this with a 90 Eagle Talon TSI, and I did some performance upgrades as well). The motor does not seem to make a lot of power for a turbocharged engine, 115hp for 1.8L? I have a NA 2.0 motor in another eclipse that gives 135hp, and my 2.0 turbo motor gives about 300hp. I'm guessing it's the light weight of the RX that lets it move out the way it does. Anyone know the weight of an RX, the title says 2700lbs but I think they're lighter. Wiki says 2337lbs for the 3-door hatch, I think that's what I've got, it has a hatch with a wing on it, ground effects, rear differential lock, dual range, turbo, electric windows, AC, no sunroof, two doors, says full time AWD on the side, and RX. Is this the coupe or a hatch? The EA82T uses 7lbs of boost, is it safe to boost these motors any further? -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingspan99 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 After looking through the Subaru's of the 80's pics I definitely have a 3-door coupe, the RX version. It has a big hatch, but is not called the hatchback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 the RX is considered a 3 door and comparing it to your Talon is like comparing apples to oranges..its a completely different animal. The EA82T is overly prone to HG failure and adding more boost without making some major changes will increase that chance even more. Turbone is one of the few who have successfully done it ..but that is with a CCR newly rebuilt motor and many other mods and changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 After looking through the Subaru's of the 80's pics I definitely have a 3-door coupe, the RX version. It has a big hatch, but is not called the hatchback. It is not called a Hatchback because at the time it was introduced, Subaru made another car tht was called a Hatchback, therefore, they called it a 3dr. Just curious, how much did you pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 With all due respect i had the 1.8 talon and when i did there was no aftermarket following. It was a decent engine but started burning oil at 70k. 2.0 is the ones you build up. But you know that. As far as yoru rx goes listen to these people. You can make the little guy a real snot rocket if you take your time. But you arent going to be able to do that with the current engine. You can always find a wrecked sti and put the goodies in there. Because you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 People have succesfully gone to 10 psi boost with an intercooler (it doesn't have one stock). But you still risk head and head gasket failure. Here's how the EA82T stacks up: 1. The reliable HP limit seems to be about 150 HP. In the 80's Subaru did build some race versions that reached 175 HP used for rally in europe - but as with any race prepped version it got rebuilt often and no one expected it to hold up to long term abuse. They also had access to many custom peices that are no longer available. 2. The head and head/block interface are the main problems. First the heads are thin in the area between the water jacket and the exhaust port - being that both cylinders exhaust into the same port you tend to see sustained high temperatures in that area and as a result they crack. The crack extends from between the valves down into the water jacket and they blow coolant out the exhaust or drip it in the ground. Subaru built three generations of heads trying to fix this problem and never adequately solved it. The solution was to phase out the engine when the new EJ series was ready for production. Second - because of how wide the engine is (due to the overhead cams being an afterthought to the big-picture of the engine design), it would be impossible to remove the heads from the vehicle if Subaru had used studs to secure them. Thus they used bolts. The block is aluminium and the torque values that can be acheived using bolts is insufficient to hold the head gaskets at anything above 10 psi boost. Want to install studs you say? You have ARP on the line you say? Unfortunately they are going to have a price you won't like. Subaru used a very oddball thread size and pitch - 11mm x 1.25. You can have them custom made - about $800 for a set. Third - even if you solved this problem the heads flow so poorly that you still wouldn't break the 200 HP barrier. The design limitations of the engine are just too great. People that have gone this far have broken rods and collapsed ring lands trying to get more power out. And if you *did* somehow manage to reliably get to 200HP - the transmission wouldn't hold the power. Anything over 200HP and the EA series 5 speed will just disintigrate. If for some reason you really wanted it, here's the formula: Forged pistons Forged rods ARP head studs O-ring the block Port the heads The problem is really the cost. I can buy several EJ engines that will have more HP with NO modifications for the price of building one Hi-Po EA82T. And you still have an engine with 3 main bearings, poorly designed dual timing belt system that rarely lasts over 50k miles, and a huge headache to work on - especially now that you have put studs in the block and have to yard the engine out to pull the heads For comparison, my 91 EJ22T (2.2 liter single turbo) was 165 HP out of the box. With only exhaust and an intercooler I'm somewhere around 200 HP. Plus the EJ's have the advantage of a considerable aftermarket in the WRX's and STi's. I can buy almost anything my heart desires and my engine is easily capable of 600 HP+ if I wanted that. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingspan99 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 I haven't taken my RX off the trailer yet, but here are some pics. The paint is only slightly oxidized, would probably shine with some Colorback. The windshield was smashed when the hood flew up so that needs replacement. The hood was replaced with one that had no paint so it completely rusted over but not rusted through so it's paintable. There's only one dent on the right front fender, which can be unbolted and a clean fender bolted on there. A small rust spot on the back of the hatch. Some hail damage on top, and a small dent above the windshield from the hood opening incident. The driver seat is torn up on the left bolster. Passenger seat good, rear seats good. Dash good. The hatch was ajar, it is the only way I can get in right now. I can't wait to fire it up and see what it's like. I don't think it looks bad for 206k. I have too many projects in my driveway this week, it will be Wed before I have room to let it off the trailer. This is such an interesting vehicle, maybe I'll convert it to an electric car. Its light weight would make it a good candidate, and the AWD would keep the electric motor from spinning the wheels. I've been wanting to do an electric vehicle conversion. -Tom in Colorado Springs, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingspan99 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 I just want to add a thanks to the guys who wrote detailed responses to my Q's, laying it all out for me, you probably saved me from blowing it up right away. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaki Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Definitely true that the 1.8 liter turbo engines are problematic/less reliable than their successors.But lets not forget that they were fully tested to the maxx when Subaru entered the Kenya Safari Rally,to counter the Audi Quattro and the Toyota Celica.For those not familiar with this rally,it has been the proving/testing ground for mainly Japanese and European auto makers for many decades(since the '50's)....at one time called the East African Safari Rally.If I remember correctly,Dodge entered the RamCharger in either '81 or '82. Some of us were fortunate enough to grow up in that part of the world,and had the chance to see cars flying(yes,I said flying!) 4-6 feet off the ground while doing 130+ miles per hour.Imagine driving day and night thru all kinds of terrain and weather?!(Do not confuse with the RHINO CHARGE EVENT which is strictly an offroad challenge with cahritable intentions). I have maintained good relations with some of the rally guys back home,and hope that one day we here at USMB can enter a car or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Definitely true that the 1.8 liter turbo engines are problematic/less reliable than their successors.But lets not forget that they were fully tested to the maxx when Subaru entered the Kenya Safari Rally,to counter the Audi Quattro and the Toyota Celica.For those not familiar with this rally,it has been the proving/testing ground for mainly Japanese and European auto makers for many decades(since the '50's)....at one time called the East African Safari Rally.If I remember correctly,Dodge entered the RamCharger in either '81 or '82.Some of us were fortunate enough to grow up in that part of the world,and had the chance to see cars flying(yes,I said flying!) 4-6 feet off the ground while doing 130+ miles per hour.Imagine driving day and night thru all kinds of terrain and weather?!(Do not confuse with the RHINO CHARGE EVENT which is strictly an offroad challenge with cahritable intentions). I have maintained good relations with some of the rally guys back home,and hope that one day we here at USMB can enter a car or two. Thanks for the info, its nice to be reminded of what was going on back then. But also, the cars in any Rally are never stock. They have all kinds of engine/drivetrain/suspension mods, which enable them to fly thru the air at 130mph Does anyone know how many years they used the EA82T in the Factory Rally cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingspan99 Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 One thing I would have to say in defense of the EA82T is that this thing has 206k miles on it and still runs, although with some minor oil leaks. There's a lot of vehicles out there that don't get past 80k on the odometer before the motor blows, namely the Isuzu Rodeo, and the Dodge Raider. My first car was a Chevy Vega with the aluminum block 4 cylinder. (No wonder I got it so cheap, it burned more oil than a 2-stroke weed whacker.) I did the brakes on it, and am trying to replace the windshield although it's been a trick to find one for the 2-door RX. Had a guy out here today try to install one for the 4-door RX, it was an inch short on the bottom side. I did get the rust off the hood and primed. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWX Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Its really not "as" bad as these guys say, I'd consider it better than the talon really. Mostly because once you're done working with all the main maintenance items, you can actually drive it awhile before it breaks again. Seriously though, with some TLC and some smart, well thought out mods, they're pretty capable cars but if you're looking for a lot of HP, its better to swap it. You'd be wasting a lot of money on it, when the same amount on money on an EJ would get a lot more power, and it would be reliable. Also, it needs some sort of programmable EMS before you even think about touching the boost. I know your talon can take like 40lbs before you need even a SAFC, the RX is not that boost friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Its really not "as" bad as these guys say, I'd consider it better than the talon really. Mostly because once you're done working with all the main maintenance items, you can actually drive it awhile before it breaks again. Seriously though, with some TLC and some smart, well thought out mods, they're pretty capable cars but if you're looking for a lot of HP, its better to swap it. You'd be wasting a lot of money on it, when the same amount on money on an EJ would get a lot more power, and it would be reliable. Also, it needs some sort of programmable EMS before you even think about touching the boost. I know your talon can take like 40lbs before you need even a SAFC, the RX is not that boost friendly. I've been running 12lbs of boost for a year now, with no EMS. Stock injectors. Stock fuel pump. TD04 and TMIC. It runs cool as a ice maker when the fans are hooked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 TD04 and TMIC. That's the key - with the TMIC you get cooler, denser air. And with the TD04 you are pushing 12 psi at a lower turbine speed thus a lower discharge temp. Although I would imagine that it takes longer for the thing to spool compared to the VF7. The key to your success Rob is that you went through a bunch of engines to find a decent block, and you aren't pushing the thing to it's limits. That's only 5 psi over stock and you matched up your small increase in boost with mods that almost negate the negative effects of said boost increase. The difficulty is that I don't think you'll get much farther without damaging something, and you are probably (realistically) not quite to the stock performance level of my EJ22T (not getting personal or anything - it's just the handiest benchmark at my disposal). Honestly what do you think you are pushing? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I hope to get it on a dyno before WCSS11. Butt dyno tells me 130whp. I had 100 before the turbo upgrade. And its a CCR block with less than 20K on it now. I would have to drop alot more $ into it to get more and thats not going to happen. I know when its time to quit. But I would love to get another one and do a full EJ swap like Russ is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 But I would love to get another one and do a full EJ swap like Russ is doing. I think the ticket is the EJ22E with about 10 pounds and a TMIC. Cheap, reliable, and good for about 200 HP with no major mods. That and a light EA82 body.... good times can be had with that combo. The legit 22T is better of course, but a lot more expensive and there's always the temptation for more power - when you have a block that can do 600+ HP..... well you kinda *want* as much as you can get. With the 22E though it's only good to about 300 and you would have to change the pistons to get there.... less temptation. Damn - now I want to build one! GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaneDriver Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Congratulations! I just bought an '89 RX two days ago. 73,000 miles, no rust, all electrical parts work, AC blows cold, all rubber seals are good (no cracking), and the general condition of the interior is good. The tops of the rear seats have holes in them, but I live in Arizona and the sun burns hot. I plan on making/getting made some covers to slip over the backs. The original radio is in the car but not hooked up. I plan on getting a replacement unit anyway so I may drive without tunes for a little bit. I have some questions for the users here. 1) What type of fuel are you using? Regular, premium? I would check the owner's manual but the owner didn't have it and couldn't recall ever having it (he was the second owner). This leads me to... 2) I found the owners manual for a 1988 model on eBay. Would most of the info still apply to a 1989 model? At least having the manual is better than not, right? There are a few seemingly minor mechanical things I have noticed/was told about. 1) There is a clicking sound almost like a plastic cooling fan rubbing the shroud that I hear under full acceleration above 3000rpm. If I hold that rpm steady in cruise though, the sound goes away. The owner said he had this checked at a shop and was told it was a minor vibration and not to worry. True? Maybe I'll record it sometime for you to hear. 2) There is a minor oil leak but most of the leaking oil burns off. Any common locations I should check out? 3) Finally, other than what was stated previously in the thread, anything else I should replace? Initially, I plan to replace at least one CV joint on the front left because it has cracked. That will be done in the next few weeks before the monsoon starts. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Welcome to the USMB, and to the frustrating and sometimes rewarding world of the Subaru RX I run Premium in mine, but only because of the mods. Normally in stock form, you can run Regular. If you have a real low octane where your at, and you're running regular right now, this may be why you're hearing the ticking. But not being able to hear the sound in person, its hard to tell. The 88 owners manual will work fine, all RX coupes are the same. The oil leaks are common. Most likely from the front crank seal and front cam seals. Its a straight forward job. Do you know if the timing belts have been replaced? Normally they need replacing before 60K, but I have heard (in rare cases) of them going further. The engine is a non-interference engine, so if they do break, no harm will be done. But I always keep a spare set in the back. Seeing how you're in AZ, I would go thru the entire cooling system. Check/replace all the hoses that are dried out or cracked/weak. Check the radiator, if it looks like theres any junk floating around, flush and keep a eye on the temps. This is the major common problem with this engine. Its very sensitive to heat. The most common result is head gasket failure. For more info, search for threads/posts under my S/N or go to the retrofit forum. And pay no heed to GD :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Juggalo Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 hey all about last year i just got my 88 subaru rx for 400$$ and yeah i was reading b4 and yeah yall right about the seals going out i just had to replace the intake and every gasket on the block and about 4 months b4 i had to replace the timing belts but i can tell it was never changed when i got it and it has over 100k miles but everything else on it runs great ..... b4 the gasket blew my friend hated me cuz i beat him in his 89 camaro around these mt roads lol also wondering i dont have the 1.8 motor i got the 1.6 whats the diff between the two !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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