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What's so bad about a hitachi carb?


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22 replies to this topic

#1 Subafreak

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:12 PM

Are they all bad?
Why is everyone so hot for a weber?
I hear some negative things about webers too.
Feel free to rant and rave.

#2 brumby420

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:24 PM

Are they all bad?
Why is everyone so hot for a weber?
I hear some negative things about webers too.
Feel free to rant and rave.


Well as far as the hitachi goes for reliability its not bad at all. Its just that a weber will increase your horse power by at least 20 (some have said upwards of 40.) One drawback though is that your going to see about 2-3 mpg less with a weber. If the extra power you get is worth 2-3 mpg then go for it. If not stick to the hitachi.

#3 bheinen74

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:25 PM

I am pulling off my weber this week and going to see if I can get the hitachi to run decently. If so, I will post my weber for sale. If not, I will just put weber back on for a bit longer.
I am looking for optimal gas mileage, over power gains.

#4 MilesFox

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:43 PM

Are they all bad?
Why is everyone so hot for a weber?
I hear some negative things about webers too.
Feel free to rant and rave.


1. if it doensnt run properly, it is frustrating
2. a weber is less complicated than a hitachi
3. if it doesnt run properly, it becomes frustrating.

Hitachis are not bad, but throw one at the average joe to figure out the rats' nest of vacuum lines and solenoids, and he would want a weber, too.

#5 Quidam

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

Are they all bad?
Why is everyone so hot for a weber?
I hear some negative things about webers too.
Feel free to rant and rave.


A few days ago, it was carb day here, 328 Hitachi. You have the carb kit to buy, (and they're not getting cheaper either) carb cleaner, (I use the $25.00 per gal. chem dip, however, I use that for pistons too), add your time and you've got some $$ in it. What I "think" may happen with some folks rebuilds and failure is the power valve. Have to make sure it works as designed. And enlarge the discharge hole so it doesn't get clogged. I also leave the fine filter screen off the brass seat for the float needle. I've seen some pretty gunked up and mangled ones. I'm pretty sure those fine mesh screens have given some folks fits with fuel delivery.

I can buy a new Weber for $200.00 delivered to my door, electric or manual choke. Of course, that's just the carb. Then I bought a genuine Weber base gasket, $10.00.

Just some randam thoughts there. Not just anyone can successfully rebuild a carburetor.

The Weber is bigger, works well, and it's NEW, as in doesn't need rebuilt. And $320.00 for the kit.

That carb I worked on the other day is one I've had for a while. I'll post some pics at some point, I'm in the process of further modification to it.

Doug

#6 Quidam

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

Deleted for now:)

Edited by Quidam, 05 March 2012 - 09:49 PM.


#7 Idasho

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:20 PM

Not just anyone can successfully rebuild a carburetor.


in my experience, it quite often isnt the carb that introduces the near impossible to diagnose problems that always pop up on these old cars.

It is one of the any devises tied to the carb, and the silly vacuum system the carb uses to do its job. Rebuilding the carb wont fix that. And good luck finding ANY info as to how to diagnose the vacuum system on them.

It simply isnt worth it from a reliability standpoint to bother with the factory carb and crap attached to it. A weber is simple, inexpensive, easy to tune, and it works. Reliability and driveability is much improved.

#8 bheinen74

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

with gas getting close to $ 5/gallon again, i am doing what i can to get my BRAT back to the best mpg it can, means ditching the weber for stock carb.

#9 Subafreak

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:02 PM

I suppose a better comparison would be pre-feed back hitachi,s. Any carb that tries to work off an O2 sensor was never a good idea. The carb in my 85 Brat ran perfect, the carb in my 81 wagon fought me to death, the carb in my first 78 Brat ran amazing and got unbelievable gas mileage, the carb in my 79 brat ran a bit rich and backfired alot.

Now the carb in my 74 sedan is the first one I've ever really taken apart and seriously rebuilt, It a combination of 74 and 78 parts on an EA71 and it's the best running carb I've ever had on a suby. Perfect idle functions, good power, and good fuel economy. Admittedly I'm no expert carb tuner by any stretch of the imagination, this is the first one I've ever tried to really learn, and I've rebuilt alot of different carbs and yes comparatively the hitachi is somewhat mind boggling to understand.

So I guess what I'm trying to decide is if properly understood could a well tuned hitachi or two perform as well or better than a weber? And what type of weber? There seems to be so many different kinds.

#10 nipper

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:38 PM

On the 89 Justy it has like 8 internal parts. I sort of like the electronic ones less hoses less parts. I was looking at converting the justy to a webber but i need a shaft through the bodyand the weber from what I can tell does not have that.

It is just like any carb decision, smaller less power better MPG vs larger better performance less MPG.

#11 ferox

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

I have been running an '83 Hitachi on my '81 hatch for 7 years now. If I wasn't planning an EJ swap in the near future I would probably swap to a Weber. I don't mind the Hitachi. It's worked well for me, but I also put a lot of time into learning them. I have a tote full of them in my garage. I wasn't a member here when I did my first Hitachi rebuild, so I didn't even know about the Weber at the time. They don't have a real progressive secondary, they've got a little vacuum pot instead, and most of them are totally or partially worn out at the throttle shaft. If you find a decent one it can be made to run well.

A properly tuned Weber will get you close to the same mileage. I don't think there is really an hp increase, but there is better low end feel and a real secondary. The trick with the Weber is keeping your foot off of it.

If you like puzzles, don't need to have your vehicle operational everyday, and can find a non-worn-out Hitachi, then taking the time to fiddle with a Hitachi might be ok for you, but if you can afford a couple hundred bucks the time you save, reliability, and performance of the Weber is well worth it.

#12 Subafreak

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:58 AM

It seems safe to assume the biggest killer of the hitachi,s is the throttle shaft bushings. Once those are worn out theres nothing you can do to get it to run right, and thats the moment i could see most people running for the weber.

Now i imagine like most upgrades just slapping a weber on your car isnt gonna give it much more power without some head work or a cam.

Are most webers a bit to much for a stock EA71 or EA81 out of the box?
I would guess thats why most people have reduced fuel economy and some over rich conditions with the webers?

Also why are there so many different types of webers that we could use on our cars? Is one type better for certain aspects of your intended goal with the car?

#13 Idasho

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:01 PM

A weber is an instant performance upgrade. Peak hp and torque remain about the same, but average torque across the rpm range is vastly greater than stock.

#14 Subafreak

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:24 PM

A weber is an instant performance upgrade. Peak hp and torque remain about the same, but average torque across the rpm range is vastly greater than stock.


Now that.....is a good answer. :)

We gotta get these things on the dyno!

#15 bheinen74

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:17 PM

well, i will come back on here, cause when gas gets 5.00 a gallon, or possible up to 10 a gallon (yes that could happen in hurricane season/newest war on islam) I will take a 3mpg better with the hitachi over a weber. I was getting 25-26mpg with weber on my 85 Brat, I think i can pull 30mpg with a good hitachi non feedback carb.

My first hitachi was a California feedback and it sucked. 4 years ago, I put a carb rebuild kit on it immediatley after purchase of said brat, and it still sucked, big time.
So about 2.5 years ago i put on a weber. Night and day change, lots of low range power, but mpg only about 24-25.
I had in the mean time purchased a free abandoned 83 gl rescue wagon, and that carb was hot stuff. ran as good as the weber and got 28-29mpg. Then recently i got a 85gl hatchback 4x4 ea81, and the hitachi carb on it is running and pulling hard.

so. I am going back to try a hitachi.
I will sell my weber if this is a good dream.
nothing bad on the weber, just i want a stock Brat, that would pass as new and not have emissions issue in ANY state. I also want the rare stockish BRAT seems nobody has one these days.

#16 Quidam

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:50 PM

Are they all bad?
Why is everyone so hot for a weber?
I hear some negative things about webers too.
Feel free to rant and rave.


Just what I'm doing today, I have three of thesei 28/32 Hitachis and I spent three hours on this.
Posted Image
I went a little too far with the editing of this picture. Everyone needs an editor. "Note to self", ESPECIALLY YOU:)

Anyway, this is a fulley functioning adjustable vac secondarry deal.

It's not finished, but it works. needs calibrated, spring shortened. IIRC, secondary comes on at 8" vaccum. One of these carbs I'm setting up for E85 Fuel. Thirty percent more volume needed with it.

More pics to come. Power valve and such.

Doug FYI three shots of Vodika. And I don't drink. :brow:

Edit

Posted Image
You ask that question, you get A story. smile

Later on,

Doug

Edited by Quidam, 07 March 2012 - 12:31 AM.


#17 Quidam

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:33 AM

Now that.....is a good answer. :)

We gotta get these things on the dyno!


Dyno my rump roast. Drag strip.

Quidam

#18 moosens

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

One guy drinking "vodika" another buying free cars .... :drunk: and I'm way too sober here.

Jesse , I believe there is a bushing kit for those throttle shafts.

Anybody?

#19 ivans imports

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

TBI TBI TBI pich dem carbs in the dirt my TBI ea81 runs like a champ and gets milage and the power is better than the webber im shure need on of you webber guys quickly drive up here and race the tbi brat and we can c shure works good night and day from the carb it had

#20 nipper

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

I was wondering about a throttle body (cheap FI) as opposed to a full fuel injection conversion for the Justy

#21 Subafreak

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

F.I. Is cool, I swapped an EA82 turbo into my 81 wagon because I got so sick of trying to get that carb to run rite.
There's no argument here about what is the superior fuel metering device. If carbs were better car manufactures would still be using them. Lol.

But lets stick to the carbs here. I'm still curious about the different types of webers. The DGVA,s GTFO,s OMFG,s and all those other ones. What is the differences?

#22 Quidam

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

Posted Image

Hey,

Haven't caught up with this thread, but I will, mabie tomorrow. I snapped this today. I've had an Hitachi bolted to it and that's a Weber gasket on there now.

Doug

#23 bonvo

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:57 AM

F.I. Is cool, I swapped an EA82 turbo into my 81 wagon because I got so sick of trying to get that carb to run rite.
There's no argument here about what is the superior fuel metering device. If carbs were better car manufactures would still be using them. Lol.

But lets stick to the carbs here. I'm still curious about the different types of webers. The DGVA,s GTFO,s OMFG,s and all those other ones. What is the differences?


dgva is automatic choke
dgv is manual choke

if it doesnt start with dg it isnt a downdraft carb

thats about all i know




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