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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Illegal clutch release.


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28 replies to this topic

#1 WJM

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 11:08 PM

Ok, on my converted wagon...the clutch wont release all the way. Its done this with the previous trans - the 2wd one - as well as the current one. This FT4WD one, I got a new clutch, pres plate, thro.brg, pilot and resurfaced the flywheel. the cable is adjsuted to minimal play before it starts to dissengage...and STILL, it wont release the clutch all the way!! If I adjust it anymore, I'll technically be ridding the clutch...and ive done that before, and nothing works.

Ive also used many different length cables, and nothing seems to work, both new and used.

any ideas?

#2 Sube Wagon Kevin

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 11:11 PM

I would check the splines on the transmission input shaft

#3 WJM

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 11:13 PM

the clutch moved on it freely, on BOTH transmission, and BOTH clutch discs. the RX had the trouble with that issue, but the clutch on it releases when the pedal is HALF way dpressed, and its got more than specified play.

#4 Sube Wagon Kevin

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 11:16 PM

the only other thing i can think of is the pressure plate has some bent fingers

#5 MilesFox

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 04:31 AM

is the cable too tight? the tighter it is the more its like having your foot ON the Pedal

we had a bent pressure plate, we had to tighten the piss out of it to work right, it burnt up a new clutn in a day of baja'n. was a bad pressure plate......

#6 northguy

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 08:59 AM

So why is it illegal?

#7 WJM

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 09:56 AM

Ive used TWO different pres plates, one NEW and one used, both act the same.

Its illegal becuz its not suppozed to do what its doing.

#8 subarubrat

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 10:12 AM

I call that my "puddle of gasoline + blowtorch must light" law.

When everything is right and it must work yet it doesn't.

#9 northguy

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 10:14 AM

Maybe that's just unethical or illogical.

#10 bajavwnsoobnut

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 10:27 AM

have you checked your bushings on the pedal assy it might be a bad bushing on the pivot shaft on the clutch pedal

#11 WJM

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 10:59 AM

bajavwnsoobnut: Hey, good idea! I'll look at that.

#12 northguy

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 11:09 AM

How is the return spring on the clutch pedal?

#13 WJM

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 11:13 AM

Overall, the pedal is stiffer than the RX, and has more resistance.

#14 mudrat79

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 11:41 AM

I had this issue on the Beast......:(

What car did the flywheel come off...?

Also on new Components, did you order it for the car the flywheel came off....?

I Turned my Ea-82 Flywheel for the Beast, and Ordered a PressurePlate for a turbo, but friction disc for a Non Turbo, and the difference in Tolerances was about .0008 But it made just enough drag, that Clutch wouldn't disengage......:(

I fought this issue for over a week, and had the motor and Flywheel out 6 times Before I figured out I had to order Complete kit for what Ever car the Flywheel came from....Due to the fact that the Machine shop turned it to that year of car's spec's.....

Hope this helps......

John in Oregon.....

#15 WJM

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 12:11 PM

it was for a turbo. and the flywheel is a turbo

#16 baccaruda

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 02:34 PM

are the engine and transmission fitting flush and straight to each other? if there's any sort of "bend" it might cause some drag..

#17 Skip

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 02:42 PM

It is assumed you have changed the pilot bearing along with the flywheels.
Can't you measure how far the RX clutch fork moves and compare it to the wagon?
This will atleast take pedal /fork travel out of the equation


#18 VaporTrail

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 03:38 PM

I was thinking flywheel as well. if it's turned down too far for the fork movement, or not turned down properly.....

#19 Soobadooba

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 06:19 PM

Is it possible that the input shaft might be bottoming out in the flywheel/pilot hole as you tighten the transmission to the engine? This would engage the end of the input shaft and mimick the sympton of a clutch not disengaging. Other than that, I got nuthin' that hasn't been mentioned already:(
-Louis-
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#20 WJM

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 11:42 PM

baccaruda: Both trans, and bell housing appear to mate perfectly.

Skip: Yes, brand new pilot. I'll see about the fork travel.

McBrat: It was turned properly. Skips flywheel (on the RX) was turned more than the GL-10's was, and the RX still disengages like its a hydr. clutch.

Soobadooba: Ummm... could you simplify that? Or do you mean the trans input shaft is rubbing on the crank, cuz its in too far or something like that? (its late here)

For comparrison: The RX, and any other factory 5spd acts like so: free play, pedal gets hard, harder, softer, to floor. The wagon...Constant...but the closer to the floor, it ever so slightly gets harder.

WTF? any more suggestions? That way ive got a hoard load to experiment with tomorrow...if its not all iced up, and cold as frick.

#21 Soobadooba

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 10:50 AM

Yup, that's what I meant. The input shaft going in too far. However, if this problem didn't immediately start happening after putting it back together or is intermitant, this probably ain't your problem. I also doubt a bad pilot bearing or input shaft jammed up against the crank would change the way the pedal FEELS. That would lead to my next question: when exactly did this start happening? (Forgive me, I'm new here). It worked for a while then stopped or has been doing this off and on?
-Louis-
'91 Loyale 4wd 5spd Wagon

#22 WJM

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 10:56 AM

it has done it ever since i did the 5spd conversion, with BOTH transmissions.

The only time it shift correctly, meaning the clutch seems to disengage properly, is when its all cold. But when everything gets warm...like in city stop and go driving, it gets really really hard to shift. But still, the pedal doesnt feel like any other factory 5spd, so there is some kind of problem.

#23 Soobadooba

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 04:50 PM

I'm thinking that "the feel" is the biggest clue here. For you to not get that "over the hump" feeling when you push the pedal, it indicates to me that the release bearing is not pushing out far enough. I believe you are thinking along those same lines along with others who have posted. I am in total agreement with Skip concerning measuring. How far does the lever move when you push the pedal? How much free play on the release lever if moving by hand with the cable disconnected? Where did the pedals come from? Is the end of the pedal arm where the cable attaches the correct length for this application?
I am also noticing at least two different types of release levers/forks/bearings and each is significantly different from the other. I don't know if it is possible to interchange these since I haven't tried, but if the wrong one was in there, I can imagine it could cause something like this.
It appears that the ball stud is threaded. I have to wonder if this were to be adjusted out further (closer to the pressure plate) would it help push the bearing into the pressure plate further? Again, I haven't tried this, but it might be something to try if all else fails.
As far as the heat issue, I can only guess the expansion of components worsens the already marginal operation of the clutch.

I hope enough of this makes sense that it might at least give you some ideas that will help you troubleshoot. More experienced posters may be able to shoot holes in any or all of these thoughts in short order. I've worked on a lot of clutches, but have little Subaru experience-especially on a retrofit. In the meantime, I will try to come up with more hairbrained ideas on what might be wrong.:D
Good Luck and Stay Warm
-Louis-
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#24 tailgatewagon

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 05:46 PM

read throught but didnt see anything of course i could have missed it but what about throw out bearing issues. maybe the throwout bearing isnt in right (backwords) or maybe the throwout bearings are differnt between cars? i dont think so but its the onlything else i can think of........

#25 WJM

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 10:06 PM

Soobadooba: Good point with the pedal assy., as those came out of a 1986 Non turbo, 2wd GL wagon. Carbed too.
Theres no more time left to really mess with this thing before i leave...I will archive this topic, and first thing I will do when i get back is fix this thing.

tailgatewagon: The throwout brg is in correctly, and is correct. Seems there are only two avail...2wd and a 4wd. All 4wd, turbo or not, seem to be the same in all dimensions. 2wd are quite a bit smaller.




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