eulogious

Yup, that's what I plan on doing now, just make sure you include the rails like legacy777 mentioned... I am going to be on the look out for the redtop injectors and ECU at the yard... I didn't do anything with the O rings. I just used what was there, so I guess yes? to your question?

I just did that for you, glad you found it

I updated my thread yesterday and was just a few threads down and answers your question exactly as this is what I just went through http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117696 Hope it helps!

Ok, so I gots impatient and I installed the remote start this afternoon, and it works great! :banana: Just in time for the freezing weather! It's not completely installed, meaning that I haven't wired up my keyless entry, and it's not installed to my liking, it's just installed so that it works. Since I need to add my keyless entry stuff to it, I figured why button it all up now So it works fine, the wires are just a mess under the dash Meh. I will fix that up later this week. Man I missed my remote start!

I have some more info here regarding the use of the "redtop" injectors that was interesting and makes sense. This is qouted from Legacy777 on legacycentral: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45526&p=345310#p345310 So there is some more info about swapping the injectors for the redtop ones. You should grab the ECU as well. Makes sense that they made them flow a little bit more and then changed the ROM on the ECU accordingly. But good to know! I just thought I would add this info for the good people here

It's been a while since I updated this thread, and a lot has happened since I last posted. While I was up in Seattle, injector #4 decided that it didn't want to work anymore, so I limped my car home to find out that it had "fixed" itself. That was temporary, and it started acting up again. So I headed of to the JY to pickup some "new" injectors. I got it up and running, but found out some interesting info about injectors, see my thread here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=972291#post972291 So I got that all fixed up, but I still hadn't gotten around to looking at my duty b problem, as I still had that issue. So I finally got around to installing my modded TCU into my car, and low and behold that fixed my problem! I just had a bum TCU! :banana: That made me super happy for sure. Having a sweet arse mod actually fix something is fantastic! I also got around to removing my remote start from my totaled loyale, so now all I have to do is install it I told myself that when I fixed all my mechanical issues with the car, then I would start adding all the fun stuff, so now that all the mechanical issues have been addressed (and then some ) now the fun begins First is going to be the remote start, then the stereo, and then the lift. The lift is going to be the hardest/longest part to do since I need tires and outback struts before I can really lift it. But at least it will start with a push of a button, and my tunes will sound just effing fantastic, so that will tide me over till I can come up with the money for the rest of the lift and some good tires Hopefully this week I will start installing the remote start, but we shall see how ambitious I get over the holiday weekend. Turkey tends to kinda kill of any motivation after eating a boat load of it But hopefully it will be starting from inside my house very soon

I believe you are correct on this. I saw those injectors in my research but really didn't go any farther than glancing at the pic of them. They seemed like the disc type with an improved spray pattern, probably subaru trying to get the best of both worlds. But this is just an assumption on my part, since I didn't really look into the red top (later year) injectors while researching I just glanced and the pic, but it would make sense that they would do that. Yup yup, and this would tie into possibly why the red top injectors have different holes than the earlier injectors, to save on cost by only needing to stock and make one type of injector. I guess that's what I get for buying a car that was produced in 1/90 It was probably literally one of the first few to roll from the factory. So it only makes sense that they would find a good compromise at some point in the future, since it is kinda silly to have 2 type of injectors when it really isn't needed. Now when I go to a yard, I am going to be on the lookout for the different injectors and the rails (red top) to just have on hand, since I still have one grey top injector. So it will probably be a good idea to have a backup set on hand. Thanks man! I just don't like not understanding what I am doing or changing in my car. If I change something like an injector that looks and seems completely different than the one I am replacing, I want to know the most I can about what just happened. I am just anal that way That's why it took me 4 months to do my paddle shifters, I wanted to understand assembly language, which I had to teach myself… Good times, but speaking of paddle shifters and gas mileage… So earlier today I decided to install my paddle shifter TCU into my car to see if it even worked, since the chip I got that has the firmware on it was "damaged" by USPS, so I plugged it in, and then I got no powerlight flashes!! I took it on a test drive and I finally have torque converter lockup as well! YAY!! :banana: Paddle shifters for the win! Who woulda thunk that 10 months ago my paddle shifter project was going to solve my transmission duty b problem? I love it when a sweet mod actually FIXES your car instead of messing it up So I guess I won't really be able to test my gas mileage since I fixed my trans problem and my gas mileage should get ALOT better now that I have torque converter lockup. Oh well, I don't think that the different injector is really going to make a big difference in the overall picture when it comes to gas mileage. Whatever. At least I know my car isn't going to blow up now! I am on a subaru fixing roll here! Now time to remove my loyale's disk brakes :-\ Thanks for all the help everyone!

Alrighty, After spending some hours reading up on injectors, I think I might have a clue as to the differences in the injectors. Not really why subaru used 2 different types (I do have some ideas), but at least the main differences between the 2. I came across this site that showed the different type of injectors, but didn't really lead me to anything conclusive: http://www.sdsefi.com/injectors.htm Then I found this... To qoute http://importnut.net/ignitionfuel.htm : I highlighted the important part... So that at least told me about the different type of injectors, pintle (auto) and lucas (manual). Now I was getting somewhere. After some more searching I found this: From http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=703652 : I highlighted in red the important part about the lucas injectors. Then I came across this tidbit from nabisco http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96571 : I highlighted the important info here as well... So putting this all together, this is what I came up with regarding the differences in the injectors, and why subaru might have used the two different types, instead of just sticking with one type. So feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this Here it goes... So with the pintle type of injector (auto), you get a good spray pattern going into the cylinder at all times, and this is important in the lower RPM range for better fuel economy and what not. This is important on automatic's because the car spends most of it's time in the lower RPM range under normal driving. I know in my car I barely go over 4000 RPM on my way to work, so having a good spray pattern makes sense in an automatic car, since it's normal RPM range is lower than that of the manual cars because the computer keeps it that way. So in order to make up for some of the loss in MPG, Subaru must have used the pintle injectors to try to offset the MPG loss that comes naturally with the design of the auto. I should also note that the pintle type of injector is more costly to make as well when compared to the lucas disc type of injector. So due to the pintle injectors being more money and not as efficient in the upper RPM range, they only put them into the auto's. Now the lucas injectors (manual) apparently perform better in the higher RPM range, which is great for a manual car since it will spend more time above 4000 RPM than an auto would, so it would make sense to use the injector that works better with more airflow (higher RPM), hence why that type of injector was only used on the manual cars. This is my theory anyways, so please correct me if my logic/thought process is off Another thing I noted was that both type of injectors flow the same, and that changes with the turbo models of course, but other than that, both type of injectors do flow the same. So at the end of the day, it looks like the only difference between the two injectors has nothing to do with the computer used or different sensors that are used, but has more to do with cost and MPG, go figure One thing that I will keep track of is my gas mileage to see if it changes at all. Of course since my trans is refusing to lockup the torque converter, I don't get very good gas mileage as it is, but I will keep an eye out and see if it changes any. It's good to know that there really isn't a difference in the injectors, just the implantation of the injectors themselves, that is unless my mileage changes drastically, then I will look more into, but until then it doesn't look like there is much of a difference between the two. It's also good to know that the ECU can compensate for either type of injectors as well No need to replace anything besides the injectors themselves As to the colors, I found nothing that really helps me out there...

This uses a transfer case to provide the "dual range" and "4 wheel drive" so it still does not fit a "4EAT Dual Range". I also don't even think that there is a 4EAT in that car anyways, the 4EAT would choke and die on itself if it had to haul around that much weight all the time. It had a hard enough time with the SVX, let alone a rather large SUV like the Isuzu Trooper. It's not AWD either, it's RWD with a 4 wheel drive transfer case which would make it not a 4EAT at all. Just because there is a "Subaru" badge on a car, doesn't make it a Subaru Still looking for this infamous dual range 4EAT...

Yup, I got 3 "black top" injectors now and one gray top. The black top one was in my car when I bought it. Never noticed it running funny. The injectors that I pulled came off of a 1990 legacy with a manual transmission. Here is the passenger side fuel "rail", this is the actual one I pulled: And here are the ones that I pulled from the drivers side of my car: Here is a shot of the "manual" injectors installed on my drivers side: And here is the passenger side, keep in mind I did not touch this side at all: All I did to install the injectors is remove 6 bolts, pop out the old injectors, pop in the new injectors, and then re-insert the 6 bolts. That's it. So this is why I am curious as to why the different injectors, and what is really different between the two. Because right now my car runs fine with a mix of manual and auto injectors, and the ECU isn't complaining at all. To quote Gloyale from another thread: and this statement is backed up by my recent adventures. So I still wonder why the different type of injectors? There must be a difference, but apparently it really doesn't matter when it comes to the car running, but I would still like to know...

If I could have removed the actual injector from my fuel rail, the manual injector would have fit. I just swapped the whole rail because I got tired of trying to remove the injector, so I just took the simple way out and swapped the whole thing. So I don't think anything actually HAS to be swapped to make it work the manual injector looks to be the same size as the auto injector so it should just fit right in. I just took the lazy way out Another question... What's with all the different colors of the injectors? What do they all mean? I mean there's grey (N/A Auto 90-91), black (N/A manual 90-91), red (N/A? 92-94?), pink (EJ22T?), yellow (STI?), and they all apparently go to different cars. So what color goes with what? I am really confused on the whole color thing with the injectors...

I did the swap yesterday (replaced 2 auto injectors with 2 manual injectors, including the fuel rail) and all is well Here's my thread I started asking as to what the difference is between the two injectors... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=971954#post971954 Just thought that I would let you know that it worked fine for me! Hope you got it going and fixed your problem!

Howdy all! So when my 1990 Legacy LS Wagon with a 4EAT starting running like crap the other day, I diagnosed it to be the cylinder number 4 injector was bad. So off to the junk yard I went looking for some injectors. The only ones that I could find in the yard were off a 1990 with a manual trans. So I grabbed the injectors, fuel rail, and all off of it. I have credit at this yard, so even if I have to take them back, no harm no foul as it didn't cost me anything. What I didn't know at the time was that there is a distinct difference between the two... One of them has nipples, the other one does not. Hmmm... After making a few phone calls inquiring about this, I said "Forget it, they are going in anyways, it can't run any worse than it is off of 3 cylinders!" and I slapped those bad boys in fuel rail and all (so I replaced the entire rail on the drivers side and the 2 injectors) and attempted to fire him up! So what do you all think happened? It runs just fine. No missing, no funny sounds, just a light ticking of the injectors firing away and a super smooth idle. Took him on a test drive and all is well. Nice power all the way through 70mph and idles like a champ. So after doing all of this and talking with some people, I came on here tonight and did a little research to see what others have done in the same situation, and here is what I found: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=115585&highlight=fuel*+injector* http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=88653&highlight=auto+fuel+injector+manual http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=89080&highlight=auto+fuel+injector+manual Heres some pics of the two different injectors: Auto: Manual: So what everyone has said is a resounding "NO, DON'T DO THAT!" to swapping the auto and manual injectors and some even went so far as to say that the ECU and all the wiring would need to be swapped, but no reason/facts as to why the need to do that, and nobody seemed to have actually tried it, and if they did, they didn't post back about it and now here I am. So my question now is this. What the hell is the difference between the two injectors besides the obvious, and what, if anything, will happen to my car by using the manual injectors instead of the auto ones over an extended period of time? I know the injectors work since they are running great in my car now, so why would I swap them out yet again for "auto" injectors when the ones in there run just fine? I just really want to know the reasons why they would be different. So if anyone has flow rates of the injectors and any other specs on the two injectors, that would be awesome! Thanks all!

The wife is busy this year (), and I actually have a wagon that I can take offroad, so I will be making it up this year! I will have to see if some of my buddies can roll up there with me This gives me a month to install my paddle shifters and stereo as well I think I can do it!

Forgive my ignorance, but that PDF doesn't show anything about a "dual range" for the 4EAT, just the normal 4EAT. So if you could be so kind to point out how it proves that there is a "dual range" 4EAT that would be sweet But I wish I would have had this document about 3 weeks ago :-\ I could not for the life of me locate the gasket that goes on the trans pan when I needed to check my duty B, so I ended up RTVing the pan since the dealer couldn't find one either. Oh well, next time I will call and order up a gasket and do it "right", so thank you very much for the parts list

There's a Different Story Outside USA... Kind Regards. That's fine that that is what is he said, but I would like links to prove this. In fact he didn't even have pictures of this transmission, and no one else chimed in to verify it did exist, so it makes me wonder... I have searched and found nothing. I can say that pigs fly outside my window at night, doesn't mean it actually happens If you have any links to cars that have this transmission, or a PDF that has this information in it, a brochure, anything written down or from a reliable website would be great! I understand that the US is different, but the internet isn't limited to searching within the US. I can't find any mention of this transmission at all, and like I said I spent months and many hours searching the net for info about the 4EAT, and not once have I seen a diagram or a picture, or even mention of a dual range 4EAT, or any dual range automatics for that matter... outside of vehicles that have a transfer case of course This is why I am interested in this transmission. If it does exist, I want to know how it works compared to the 4EAT. So please don't take my response as me being an rump roast, I am really interested in learning more about this dual range 4EAT This is all a little off topic, but to bring it back to the topic, it would be sweet to bring the dual range back, especially in a diesel!

Your dates are a little off on these, and there is no "Central Difflock" in the 4EAT auto trans. The "Central Diff" that you mention is actually called a MPT (Multi Pressure Transfer) clutch, and you can not "lock" it, at least not from the factory. It's not the same as a "Center Diff" in the AWD 5MT trans fround in the RX, it's completely different and controlled completely by the computer with no interaction from the driver. You can "mod" it to essentially create a "Diff Lock", but it can possibly cause more wear on the trans... And they stopped putting the 4EAT into the loyales in 1990, not 1989. Subaru realized that it was the same trans that they put into the legacy and they wanted the legacy to sell better, so they neutered the Loyale and removed the 4EAT option in 1991 and only offered the 4EAT in the legacy from that point on until the introduction of the impreza in 1993, I believe. I got a 1990 Turbo Loyale Wagon w/a 4EAT sitting in my garage right now There is a dual range version of the 4EAT? I really want to see this! I don't think that this is possible to even do, that's why I am asking about it. Auto transmissions are completely different and adding "dual range" to it make it WAY more complicated, complex, and more expensive. That and I have never heard of a dual range 4EAT, and I have done quite a bit of research on the 4EAT, several months in fact while doing my paddle shifters... So if you can find any links to it, that would be sweet! Also what cars was the dual range auto offered in? Here's a good read on the differences between Subaru's AWD: http://www.awdwiki.com/article.html?inc=sub It's got all the info about the different transmissions and options that subaru has had over the years. I just wanted to have the correct information posted, that's all. So if I am wrong, please correct me

The only reason diesel cost more than regular gas is because it's taxed differently. That's it. It's cheaper to buy, but it's more heavily taxed because of the trucking industry. They tax diesel more because the VAST majority of vehicles that use diesel are trucks, and just by nature trucks do more damage to the roads and add more pollution because of the sheer amount of miles driven by truck drivers. So therefore the states will tax diesel more to make up those costs. Also because of state lines and the very nature of truck driving and crossing those state lines, it means that states need to be able to collect money from those trucks running on their roads, and the only way to do that is by taxing the fuel they buy in that state. Normally states just charge a tax on vehicle registration once a year, and that money is suppose to go to the cost of maintaining the roads, but trucks travel though states all the time that they are not registered in, so the only real way to get any money out of those trucks is to tax the fuel they buy, and hence a higher diesel price. I for one would pay more for diesel for the added MPG's you get with the diesel motor, it wouldn't even phase me one bit Also the boxer diesel passes Euro 5 emissions, so I think it should do just fine in the states. California might be the only exception, but when has california not been the exception to just about every rule?

Before doing too much to the car, I would wait until the title is in your hand. It would suck to fix the car up, and then not be able to actually drive it...

Nice score for $100! Can't go wrong with that... They don't make the dual core radiators anymore, at least to my knowledge they don't. But they do make a copper and/or aluminum radiator that is supposed to be better than the NA radiator, but it's still just a single core, but because of the different metals they use in it, it dissipates heat better than the NA radiator. So I wouldn't spend too much time looking for a dual core as they are VERY hard to find now. Just go with the "upgraded" copper/aluminum radiator One thing you didn't mention, is the title clean? Since it was wrecked might be something you want to checkout if you haven't already... Good luck getting it fixed up and running!

To add on this a little, it was a law stating that the manufactures had to have some sort of "active" restraint system in the car, starting in 1990 I believe. Some manufactures decided that the auto belts were the best option (cheaper), and some went with airbags. In 1992 I believe the law was changed to require airbags specifically because the auto belts weren't working as intended since people would just not use the lower lap belt, and that resulted in some bad accidents. So once the law was changed in 1992 Subaru went with airbags. I am kinda starting to like my auto belts. Like Dan said, I can't get a ticket for that now! But I am still on the fence about them. I am hoping they will grow on me with time... I really like your wagon man! Kinda the same look I am going for Good work man!

Ya, I just wanted my amps out of the way of stuff that might need to go in the back. The sub box isn't big and annoying or anything, so it won't take up that much room. Since I have a cargo cover, I am not worried about someone stealing my stuff, it's not out in the open or anything and it's covered up. Now if I had more experience, or any experience, with fiber glass, I would probably look at putting it all in the spare tire well, but I don't, so "simple" it is! I am getting my lift kit this weekend for sure! Then I will be one step closer to lifting my Leggy! Now I just need to find some outback struts for cheap, and then I should have all the major parts needed to lift it, then I just have to find a garage, a friend to help install it, and time

Well my actual sub install isn't going to be fancy or anything, it's staying in the box that it's in. I am not installing the sub into the spare tire area, just the two amps and my signal processors. So I guess it's a "pseudo" stealth install, or something like that

I picked up a legacy, so my post was in the new gen section Picking up a low mileage legacy brought the cost of maintaining my soob done a bunch But thanks! No way could I live without a soobie

I just dumped $650 on normal maintenance items. This included timing belt, all the idlers, water pump, cam and crank seals, all my hoses, all my belts, knock sensor, rebooting an axle, oil change, trans flush, plugs and wires, and swapping out the Duty B solenoid in the trans. I probably forgot something as well. This doesn't include the time I have spent resealing the sunroof and fixing all the interior stuff that was wrong with it as well (several hours, maybe days?). BUT, I don't have to worry about ANYTHING for 60k, so it's well worth it. 60k for me is a little over 2 years, so $650 every two years is fine by me, and I drive a lot WAY cheaper than a car payment This was also paying someone else to show me how to do it all, so next time it will only be about $450 in parts and a good day of my time. Cheapest car I have owned so far when it comes to maintanence!