kemmer Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I'm getting misfire engine codes from 3 cylinders. Took it to a shop and they spent about 3 days trying to fix it and finally did a compression test and found that compression in one of the cylinders is over 170 and it's 83 and another cylinder. They are saying it's time for a top end rebuild, but I'm thinking if that's the case it's time for a new car. Is there anything else that might be causing these symptoms? EDIT: this is a 2.5l. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Any history of the timing belt breaking? If so, bent valves could cause your symptoms. Check the coolant over flow for black oily residue, if it's in there you have a head gasket leak. Get a good 95 2.2 engine and drop it in and you'll be good to go. If you want to sell, let me know. I work for SkyWest and I'm out in SLC every month or so. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Been told this engine has a tendency to burn the exhaust valve in #3 cylinder. If the low compression is in #3, that may be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) Been told this engine has a tendency to burn the exhaust valve in #3 cylinder. If the low compression is in #3, that may be the problem. i've heard this as well. i never fully understood the cause. but a timing belt jump is much more common. it doesn't much matter, both require pulling the heads and checking the valves. UNLESS, a new timing belt and correct timing resolve the issue. Edited January 18, 2010 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 cylinder misfires are very common and usually caused by spark plugs or wires. have they ever been replaced? and these engines happen to be very picky, NGK and OEM wires only. if the compression test was done without opening the throttle and a full power available from the battery or a charger i wouldn't necessarily trust those numbers. but it doesn't sound good, that's a big differential. if it is the valves, a thorough head job and timing belt job might be an option. if the car is in good condition another 100,000 miles out of the engine is very possible if the job is done right. about $1,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Is your shop able to do a leak down test? It is far more definitive than a compression test. You will know if it is a valve, ring or head gasket issue rather than guessing and spending more money on diagnostic time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 The shop checked to make sure the cams were lined up and the timing was ok. The did not do a leak down test, so maybe that would be a good idea. The wires are in need of replacing for sure. I suppose that would be an easy thing to do to see if it corrects the problem, but the compression numbers sound pretty bad. Why would one cylinder be low and another high? seems crazy... If you want to sell, let me know. I work for SkyWest and I'm out in SLC every month or so. Larry Yeah, actually. We're now talking about maybe a Baja or something else all together. I can send you some pics tomorrow if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Why would one cylinder be low and another high? seems crazy... compression tests are only as good as the set up. if the throttle plate is closed and the battery isn't fully charged you can get all sorts of readings. you're right, it doesn't look good, but it's still silly to toss a car away without knowing for sure whether it's the internals or $50 in wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Read the other thread on here about this issue on '97 Outbacks. It's a good chance there's absolutely nothing wrong with your engine if it runs fine otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 OK, so a new issue cropped up today. My wife was driving it and when she tried to shut off the engine it wouldn't turn off and it made a really loud whining noise. She drove it home and it turned off. Any idea what might be causing this? Is it dieseling? Is that even possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I am sorry but this is not "if the car is running it is fine" thing. There are issues here. There should be a wet and dry compression test, and we need all FOUR cylinders done with the plugs removed. We need a dry test and a wet test. If the shop only did a 2 cyl compression test take the car out of there they dont know what they are doing. I've never heard of 2.5's burning up exhaust valves on the #3 cylinder. On occasion they will burn a valve (as any car will). Questions: How many miles are on this car. When was the last time the timing belt was changed. If the belt was changed, what other parts were changed along with it. I am leaning toward the car being in time, but i want to see what the compression is on the other cylinders first. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 Ok, let me see if I can answer some of those questions. First, this testing was done by the dealership. They removed the timing belt cover and said everything looked fine, though the belt has had oil on it from the oil leak and needs to be replaced. they did a compression test on 3 of the four cylinders. (the three that had thrown codes) One cylinder was low, one was high, the third was normal. They said they didn't do the fourth becuase it was not throwing codes and because the wires were old and they were afraid they were so brittle that removing it would ruin it. I don't think the wires are THAT old, I replaced them about 20k miles ago. The timing belt was done when I replaced the engine about 25k miles ago as well. I'm not positive what else was done at the time. It is a junk yard motor. It started throwing codes pretty much right away. we were able to get the codes to go away long enough to pass inspection the last two years, but they came back within a few days. I think at this point, since it's leaking and the timing belt has had oil on it, it's just time to tear into the motor. I'm just not sure I want to spend another 2k on this car, it has a 180k miles on it. It's been a good run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Sheesh at 191,000 miles i put a brand new engine in mine. If the timing belt jumps usually a pair of cylinders will have high pressure (DOHC) or will have low. 170 actually is a bit on the low side, as normal is the 180-190 range. The dealer woosed out on the compression test, as i am sure they didnt charge you for 3 cyl time, they charged you for 4. If the wires looked old and the customer was showing a missfire, they should have thrown a set of wires on it to see if that solved it. I still dont like this shop. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 and i bet the one they didn't test was #4, the hard one. and then only because it had no code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 and i bet the one they didn't test was #4, the hard one. and then only because it had no code. ding ding ding... that's the one they skipped. this was at the dealership, they charged me 150 for the time they spent on it which included checking the timing, doing the compression test and various other diagnostics. I took it to another shop that spent a ton of time checking all kinds of other stuff only to give up and send me to the dealership. You know what I'm thinking? maybe an electric conversion, my wife just drives it around town, her longest trips are like 10 miles. it just might work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 so they did n't test #4, driver side rear. my guess is the #2 is normal, driver side front. and then both passenger sides were 'not right'. sounds like a jumped belt to me. but this does not explain why one cylinder with high compression. how high is "high"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 the dealership said the belt was lined up and everything, so I don't know... the one cylinder was at 170... isn't that high? I thought 125-150 was normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 "the one cylinder was at 170... isn't that high?" No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 the dealership said the belt was lined up and everything, so I don't know... the one cylinder was at 170... isn't that high? I thought 125-150 was normal. Like i said 185 +/- 5psi is normal. sheesh no one listens. And the PROPER WAY of doing a compression test is you do ALL the cylinders, remove ALL the plugs and crank with a fully charged or boosted battery. You do one test dry, then a second test is done after squirting some oil in the cylinders. This is called a wet and dry test.They did an improper compression test. I also doubt they really checked the timing marks. This dealer was useless. Also this is something any decent shop could have checked. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Like i said 185 +/- 5psi is normal. sheesh no one listens. And the PROPER WAY of doing a compression test is you do ALL the cylinders, remove ALL the plugs and crank with a fully charged or boosted battery. You do one test dry, then a second test is done after squirting some oil in the cylinders. This is called a wet and dry test.They did an improper compression test. I also doubt they really checked the timing marks. This dealer was useless. Also this is something any decent shop could have checked. nipper What the hell man, I want my $150 bucks back. I guess maybe we'll take it someplace else, but I'm pretty sick of paying for diagnostics and not coming up with answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) I'm in the process of changing the plugs and wires, I ran into a little problem changing one of the wires, and made a new thread about it here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=898677#post898677 I took it for a spin with the three wires and plugs replaced and it made a HUGE difference. The plugs looked pretty bad, and I'm wondering if it was running hot or something. These plugs aren't more than 2 years old at most, I didn't think they would look this bad. I have attached a pic, please take a look and let me know what you think. Edited February 4, 2010 by kemmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daredevil1166 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I think you should get a compression tester and test it again yourself. They can be had pretty cheap. I'm not a big fan of this dealer you've been going too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I think you should get a compression tester and test it again yourself. They can be had pretty cheap. I'm not a big fan of this dealer you've been going too. I drove it to autozone and turned off the CEL. I drove the 2miles home without it coming back on, so it looks like maybe a simple tune up fixed it. If this is all it took I'm going to be seriously pissed at the two shops that tried fixing this for me, what a joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemmer Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 OK, the CEL came back in after about 5 miles of driving, I wasn't driving at the time and my wife didn't notice when it came back on so I have no idea what conditions may have made it come on. The good news is that all the misfire codes are still gone and just the knock sensor code remains. Any ideas what could be causing this? one of the first things we did to this car was replace the knock sensor when all of this started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 There isnt much to diagnose on a 13yo knock sensor. Just replace it, then you should be golden. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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