idosubaru Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 i'm not asking about towing in general - i tow Subaru's all the time on dollys. does anyone know for certain: what about towing with a dolly with front two wheels on the ground for 7 miles? due to current location the only way to get the front on the dolly would be to pull it out - unload and reload it - sounds annoying for a 7 mile trip? 1. disconnect driveshaft like normal? 2. tow it with key on and FWD fuse in (engine doesn't run)? driveshaft is easy enough to pull i'll probably just do that, just don't want to load, unload, load, and unload all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 i don't think the drive shaft needs to be pulled. when the car is not running there is no connection inside the trans, front to rear. the damage is caused by no lubrication on the rear end of the trans since the oil pump is not working. the same is true for towing with the fronts on the ground. no trans oil pumping. i would probably put a chain or tow strap on it and drag the car into a position i could load it properly. or load it as is and drive it really, really, slowly and take a long lunch or college football game brake at the mid point. or perhaps , load it like it sits, and tow it to a near by hill with your truck pointing up hill. put the car in park, chock the front wheels, release the hand brake and remove the straps. drive out from under the car. now reposition the dolly down hill from the car. then coast the car down hill onto the dolly. (don't miss, and be sure to stop. ) good luck. ps: i have that stock radio out of a ''new to me'' 01 outback H6 VDC, if you are interested. pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 no you should not do it. Your thought about key on and FWD fuse is a no go. You could tow a manual trans car, because it does not require fluid being pumped around the gear set. But no way at all any Subaru Auto trans car can be towed without the car running, while the transmission pump is off while the front driveshafts are connected to the trans. The friction clutches in the trans will be destroyed even in 7 miles. if the engine ran, then yes you could leave the car running and in Neutral it would be okay to go slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 My guess is 4EAT - no. But, isn't the new auto different and maybe the clutches would be OK? you didn't say what car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I vote against it. I saw too many that were purchased at Auction that were impounded that got damaged by tow drivers grabbing them out of driveways and such like you are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 FWD fuse "trick" only works if the engine is running... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 right on, i'll get it turned around some way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=859228&postcount=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=859228&postcount=2 ******but i forget sometimes too******* lol!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=859228&postcount=2 lol nice find rob that was flat towing though, my question was not about flat towing. if they're essentially the same, then i don't mind learning that. i searched here and google and saw all the threads like that one, but none mentioned front wheels on the ground using a dolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Its just common sense Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDWagonator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well, everyone is right not having fluid tears up bushings and clutches when towing with all wheels on the ground. However, if the car runs, you can start the engine and tow that short. As long as the trans pump is running fluid is circulating and you're good. If it doesn't run, you'd have to pull every drive shaft...seems like more work than getting your dolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 it's a 99 Legacy auto. i'm not clear on how the front diff/trans interaction operates so thought i'd ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 with no ATF pressure, no oil pump action, the transfer clutch does not engage. (jack up a rear wheel and you can spin it by hand.) but also with no ATF / oil pumping there is no real lubrication for the bearings in the extension housing. so you run the risk of burning up what ever bearings are there. unlike a manual trans where the gears and shafts are bathed in oil, the auto trans relys on the pump to move the fluid which also lubes the bearings. i had an auto trans AWD towed about 1.5 miles with the rear wheels down with no damage. i didn't know any better then. and it was a very short distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 4eat's are a FWD transmission with a clutchpack sending power to the rear. With the engine off, there's no hydraulic pressure being generated to apply the rear clutch pack, so they can slip. This is why people get away with towing autos with the rear wheels on the ground. It causes extra wear to the transfer clutch pack, but it won't kill anything in a short tow. If you tow with the front wheels on the ground, you're spinning the planetary gear sets in the transmission with no lubrication. That will end badly. Manuals have a limited slip center diff, so if you try towing it with a set of wheels on the ground, it will fight the wheels turning against the ones that aren't. That fight generates heat, and it will destroy the center diff. Usually the disks in the viscous coupler get so warped by the heat that they jam against each other, locking it into a 4x4 instead of AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 .If you tow with the front wheels on the ground, you're spinning the planetary gear sets in the transmission with no lubrication. That will end badly. great, thanks. i prefer knowing mechanically what's going on, that's exactly what i wanted to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 4eat's are a FWD transmission with a clutchpack sending power to the rear. With the engine off, there's no hydraulic pressure being generated to apply the rear clutch pack, so they can slip. This is why people get away with towing autos with the rear wheels on the ground. It causes extra wear to the transfer clutch pack, but it won't kill anything in a short tow. If you tow with the front wheels on the ground, you're spinning the planetary gear sets in the transmission with no lubrication. That will end badly. Manuals have a limited slip center diff, so if you try towing it with a set of wheels on the ground, it will fight the wheels turning against the ones that aren't. That fight generates heat, and it will destroy the center diff. Usually the disks in the viscous coupler get so warped by the heat that they jam against each other, locking it into a 4x4 instead of AWD. I had a stupid tow truck driver try and tow my other Subaru i owned when my fuel pump went out with just the front end raised.. I think we moved like 50 Ft before the rear's locked up.. and the car was in neutral. Had to wait another hour for the same guy to come back with a flat bed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 subaru Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Ok from what i gather you have to have all four wheels off the ground to tow. Im looking at an 86 gl automatic 4x4. I was gonna tow it with a dolly but it looks like i should get a trailer. Im towing it 180 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 subaru Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Ok from what i gather you have to have all four wheels off the ground to tow. Im looking at an 86 gl automatic 4x4. I was gonna tow it with a dolly but it looks like i should get a trailer. Im towing it 180 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 subaru Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Sorry for the double post:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 no, all wrong - this is the wrong thread for you to be reading - i was asking a bizarre question about towing with the FRONT wheels on the ground, the opposite of what you're "supposed" to do with a dolly where the front wheels are up on the dolly. you want to tow it normal - front wheels on the dolly (not rear wheels on the dolly and "backwards" like i was asking in this thread - which i ended up not doing)? load it on the dolly. then remove the 4 12mm nuts holding the rear driveshaft to the rear differential and then it's fine to tow on the dolly. another option i've done before, if the car runs and is an automatic with 4EAT transmission you can install the FWD fuse with the vehicle running and tow it on a dolly without doing anything. 180 miles is longish but if it's a perfectly running car with no issues (like no worries that it's going to overheat, run out of oil, etc), I've done it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 subaru Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I saw that i was reading the wrong stuff omce i re-read some things. I was gonna repost under general tech forums in the 80's stuff but didnt want to duplicate(which i did in this thread) Anyway thanks Gary for setting me straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 I saw that i was reading the wrong stuff omce i re-read some things. I was gonna repost under general tech forums in the 80's stuff but didnt want to duplicate(which i did in this thread) Anyway thanks Gary for setting me straight. just wanted you to know i was originally asking a bizarre question. it's easy to tow on a tow dolly - just follow directions from folks that have done it, as i posted in the last reply. good news - very easy! and you're in florida so you probably don't even have rust to worry about - but just in case make sure you have a 12 mm SIX point wrench. there isn't enough room to get a socket wrench behind the rear diff flange to get a straight on shot of the 12mm nut. have a 12mm 6 point wrench on hand. closed end - don't use an open end lest you strip the bolt - they can take some grunt after years of exposure to the elements. once the car is loaded on the trailer you'll probably still need a jack to get the rear wheel off the ground to have room to crawl under there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Ok from what i gather you have to have all four wheels off the ground to tow. Im looking at an 86 gl automatic 4x4. I was gonna tow it with a dolly but it looks like i should get a trailer. Im towing it 180 miles. this would be ok to tow with the 4wd off and front wheels up, being part time, you are good to go. just not with AWD at gary, towing a car backwards on a dolly is BAD BAD idea, it ont handle right, and has GREAT potential for sway. i helped a buddy tow a monte carlo on a dolly backwards. it got uncontrollable by 45 mph and we had to turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 subaru Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 and you're in florida so you probably don't even have rust to worry about Im actually in miami, oklahoma. Still not a lolt of rust prblem hu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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