EA82 runnin warm, and has me stumped!

[mudduck]

Just as the title says, EA82 spfi in my 89 wagon. I'll start from where the problems started.  Ran up to the store the other night, ran inside got smokes and come back, and left the car running when i ran inside. Heater was blowing warm when I went in, and blowing ice cold when i returned. Also noticed the guage was reading right at cold. Huh, that is strange. popped hood and poked around real quick, didn't see anything leaking, no smell of coolant nothing. So, i start to head back to the house. As soon as I hit the road, the temp spikes to 2/3s  on the temp guage. Oh crap, I thought, as this cars guage always reads just about 1/4, even on the hottest days. and the heat came back to working also. Then temp dropped back to normal just as quick as it got warm get home, let car cool, check coolant, full. Huh, strange. So, next day, i start to do a little pokin around. Start car, and let it idle and warm up. car got warm, heater blowing good and hot, nothing unusual, so I take a ride. As soon as i hit the road, temp starts to go up, and heater starts to blow ice cold?  What the? gets to bout 2/3ds again, and drops down back to normal, then rises to bout half. Runnin warm for this car. Heat works great again. But also noticed that water was getting pushed out of the overflow. So I figured Id swap t stat with a new OEM t stat that I had around. Changed that, topped of coolant, front end up in the air a little, engine running. fill er up, and let idle. starts to get warm, the warmer, the less heat heater is blowing. Gets warm, and then tappers off just above half way mark. Also noticed starting to push water out overflow jug again. Shut it down, take a smoke break. So, now I'm thinking air pockets, so I jack up the fron end again, and pull the cap, and top it off, takes just a little water, bout what was pushed out og overflow, and drain some from overflow tank. Maybe air in the core? Pulled heater core lines, had coolant in them, but what the heck, I,m right there at them, why not back flush, and give it a good cleaning. Back flushed with water, compressed air, water, more air, and then filled with clr, let sit 20 min. Flushed out all clr with hot water. Did the clr treatment two times, and not much crap really came out. Filled heater core up with water, hooked hoses back up, topped everything off, front end up, blah blah blah, ya know the routine. Runs at idle for a good 25 minutes, and flushing the core must have done a little good, cause it was great to begin with, now it will run ya out on the low setting!  Coll, maybe there was a air lock. Nope, start down the road,gettin hot. So back to the house.  Ended up going and getting an aftermarket tstat(yes, i know better) Tossed that in. top off water, run at idle. No issues. run down the road and back, no problem. cool, problem fixed? NO. Rum up to the store, leave car running, come back out, and the sob is runnin warm again, after sitting at idle. And blowing cold air. I did note that the upper rad hose is tight, and warm, heater hoses are both hot, even when blowing cold air, and the lower hose is warm, but cooler than upper hose, and that the radiator don't seem to get warm. So, I bypasses the core with a loop of hose. Rad gets warm then, like it would normally, and also noticed coolant wasnt pushing into the overflow. Ran it dwon the road,  the temp stayed ok for the short ride. .And before pointing at other things, the radiater is a good radiator, replaced not to long ago, and it don't have cool and hot spots, cooling system was flushed a few monthes back, newer rad cap when i did flush, and all hoses seem to be ok, and aren't real old at all, tention on the fan belts is good, I mean, I have checked all that could be the obvoius problems, but no thing is helping. The electric fan is working, but rarely ever kicks on, even in summer, as i said before, it has always run nice and cool. But, when it is running warm, radiator is cool, and the fan dont kick on, With the core hooked up, started to have the same problem, and it ain't ever consistant. The temp will run up, and down, stay at half back to 1/4 up to half stay there back to 1/4 up to 2/3s and it don't mater if i am driving the tits off of it, or driving like a little old lady going to church. If i hold the engine at 2000 rpm, when sitting it tends to spike quick. The water pump ain't that old, but it seems to be related to the heater core? After all, I bypassed the core and it seemed to make a difference, but then again, I didnt run o long like that either. Sorry for a long winded post, wanted to try and be as thorough as I could, but I am stumped at what could be going on. Thanks

[SmashedGlass]

Well, I think you answered your own question right in there. If bypassing the heater core solves the problem, I'd wager it's....the heater core what needs repaired or replaced.

[l75eya]

Try running a couple days with core bypassed.

[jono]

maybe try swap the temp sender unit.

[subnz]

If after bypassing heater core and if still problems  suspect  radiator, take get flow tested by radiator specialist, these can scale up ie hard white scale and may need to remove tanks and physically " rod out" cores.. 

 

I had an 86 Leone EA82 with heater core/ overheating issues and the radiator was significantly blocked and needed to be rodded out.

 

Also if the incorrect thermostat/ no thermostat is fitted this can cause probems too - suggest a genuine one.

 

Also as mentioned previously check temp sender unit / cooling fan etc if this isn't working correctly.

 

Was the replacement radiator new or if 2nd hand? (did you get it flow tested)?

[scoobiedubie]

On my 86 gl-10, the engine temperature is accurate, only when the heater, defroster or bilevel is NOT OPERATING.  It will shoot up to red line hot with any of them are operating.  But as soon as you shut them down, the engine temp drops like a rock back to the normal engine temperature.  They put the engine temperature sensor in the wrong spot on the EA82.

Edited December 20, 2013 by scoobiedubie

[86 Wonder Wedge]

When the gauge goes cold and no heat, do the radiator hoses get firm, like they're cold? I had an EJ25D do the exact same thing... pushing water out of the overflow, random temp spikes, but no external leaks or "loss of coolant" (except for pushing out of the overflow). Turned out to be the headgaskets.

 

This sounds like a classic symptoms of HG/heads pushing gasses into the cooling system. When the air/gas pushes the coolant into the bottle, the only thing the sensors read is the "cold" air in the system and the temp drops. When you take off, the air gets pushed by the now spinning water pump and the super hot coolant spikes the gauge.

 

While I know the SPFI EA82 are not known for blowing their headgaskets, but it IS possible.. MIght also check for belt tension on the water pump just to be sure..

[mudduck]

Well, I bypassed the heater, and it would run real warm, not hot, but not exactally cool, but with the random temp spikes. I hooked the heater back up, and pulled the t stat, and it runs good cool and steady, Takes forever to warm up, but for now, its working.

 

After reading what youu said about the hoses getting firm, its doing about what your discribing.  And temp seems to want to spike rinning around 2-3000 rpm, It could be the head gaskets.

[Royaleloyale]

Any update on this? I just read this post and it’s the same exact scenario I’m going through right now with my 94 loyale. At speed my temp is low to mid (good) but as soon as I stop and idle or drive slowly off idle it starts to get hot, never overheating but too hot. I have a new thermostat, my heater core is sloshing like crazy tho, I’ve tried to burp the cooling system several times and can’t seem to get it all out or deep enough, I recently flushed the core with water, nothing fancy, good flow. I’ve owned it for a yr and bought it for 300 and have put 15000 miles on her but it just recently started overheating after trying to burp the cooling system. Core won’t stop sloshing around corners and temp is getting more random, it used to just run cold alllll the time, no heat, prior to the burp. 

[DaveT]

if the air doesn't work itself out in a few drive cycles, you have either a leak, or a beginning slow failure of a head gasket.  There should be no air in the cooling system.  How to check - Check the level in the overflow, and squeeze the upper hose and listen for the gurgling, and the giggle pin.  DO NOT open the radiator cap.  Every time you open the cap, you let in air, you will never know if it is getting better or worse.  Check before each cold start.  Over a few times, you should notice progressively less gurgles, unless there is a leak, or head gasket beginning to fail.  Also, try to not if the cooling system pressurizes faster than it heats up.   Look at the over flow tank after a run, before shutting down - if there are bubbles rising in the overflow, that is a good indicator of failing head gaskets.  Many leaks do not leave easy to find evidence.  Leaks to the outside often evaporate off the block, and take a long time to build up evidence if you run antifreeze,  Intake manifold gaskets can leak coolant into the intake, and it takes a fairly bad leak before you see steam in the exhaust.  It is also possible to have a leak between the throttle body and the intake.

[idosubaru]

14 hours ago, Royaleloyale said:

Any update on this? I just read this post and it’s the same exact scenario I’m going through right now with my 94 loyale. At speed my temp is low to mid (good) but as soon as I stop and idle or drive slowly off idle it starts to get hot, never overheating but too hot. I have a new thermostat, my heater core is sloshing like crazy tho, I’ve tried to burp the cooling system several times and can’t seem to get it all out or deep enough, I recently flushed the core with water, nothing fancy, good flow. I’ve owned it for a yr and bought it for 300 and have put 15000 miles on her but it just recently started overheating after trying to burp the cooling system. Core won’t stop sloshing around corners and temp is getting more random, it used to just run cold alllll the time, no heat, prior to the burp. 

1. headgaskets

2. intake manifold gaskets leaking internally into the combustion chamber

3. another leak you haven't found yet

Carefully look for an external leak.  Pressurize the cooling system to check for leaks.  When it's running hot look for bubbles in the overflow tank. 

[Ionstorm66]

If the core is sloshing you have air, and if it wasn't sloshing before then you have a leak. A small leak to atmosphere won't cause overheating, I've had a slow leak for years in these cars and never had one overheat on the guages. Even when it was over a quart low.

 

 

If the gauge is spiking then it is in air, then suddenly in coolant, so it's super low or bad HG.

 

If its slowly rising then the car isn't keeping up with the engine, so it's either the fan, water pump, thermostat, or radiator. You need zero coolant pressure to keep it cool at idle, and if there is enough coolant to rear the sensor it isn't too low. Thus no way low coolant will cause that.

[el_freddo]

If the heater core under the dashboard makes a gurgling sound when cornering or accelerating the heater core hoses are backwards on the engine or at the firewall. Swap one end around will sort that issue out. 

The high temp spike issue sounds like HGs to me. Get on to that sooner rather than later. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Ionstorm66]

Also what brand thermostat did you get? The knock offs are horrible. I've tested them on a hot plate and they open and don't close, or open way late all at once. Subaru ones work like clocks.

[DaveT]

High grade Stant or OEM for thermostats. 

[idosubaru]

Same symptoms with two thermostats suggest this is something other than a thermostat issue. Definitely check or just get an oem one in there but don’t hold your breath.

[Royaleloyale]

I got a OEM thermostat from  O’Reillys when I first bought the car,  When I bought it it had a bypass hose leak so I replaced that and tried to get all the air out of the system. I could never get hot air to blow tho. I’ve just been driving it a yr and The temperature was always low it would only pump up a hair on the gauge. Recently I tried to burp it again after the sloshing started. Now I can’t get hot air it still sloshes. I just put a Napa thermostat and in my driveway it’ll get closer to operational temp and will blow warm air but I haven’t driven it yet. When I put the funnel on to burb the system I can see a flow or stream of air continuously after 30 minutes of running. I either it’s exhaust or it’s just boiling I can’t tell. Anyways gonna drive it this weekend and see if I can’t verify more. Dang I love this old wagon, I’ll do anything for her. Thanks for all the responses!!

[DaveT]

The continuous stream of bubbles is exhaust.  At least at 0 to 1000 feet above sea level.... It will gradually get worse, until the headgaskets leak bad enough that you can't get a mile or so without blowing all the coolant out.   

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, Royaleloyale said:

I got a OEM thermostat from  O’Reillys when I first bought the car,  When I bought it it had a bypass hose leak so I replaced that and tried to get all the air out of the system. I could never get hot air to blow tho. I’ve just been driving it a yr and The temperature was always low it would only pump up a hair on the gauge. Recently I tried to burp it again after the sloshing started. Now I can’t get hot air it still sloshes. I just put a Napa thermostat and in my driveway it’ll get closer to operational temp and will blow warm air but I haven’t driven it yet. When I put the funnel on to burb the system I can see a flow or stream of air continuously after 30 minutes of running. I either it’s exhaust or it’s just boiling I can’t tell. Anyways gonna drive it this weekend and see if I can’t verify more. Dang I love this old wagon, I’ll do anything for her. Thanks for all the responses!!

headgaskets

i mean we can't see the car so i guess you'd be wise to check for the intake manifold still leakinng into the combustion chamber but based on what you said the headgaskets have failed and are blowing exhaust into the coolant.  it prevents the fluid from properly circulating and thus the heat doesnn't work. 

EA82's are tiny engines and easy to replace the headgaskets in the vehicle...well, easy relative to headgaskets.