I need to swap the 2000 Forester engine into a 2001 outback with bad engine. Is this a direct swap? Looks like both engines are identical with EJ25.

Thanks

yes those are the same long block and interchangeable if you're positive of the engine year/model.  

there are two style cam/crank triggers - one for manuals and one for automatics.  so either: 
verify they're the same, or
swap the passengers side cam sprocket and crank sprocket from the old engine onto the new.

it should be getting new timing components anyway so it's not really any extra work, not that it's hard anyway relative to an engine swap. 

manual transmissions get a timing belt guard above the crank sprocket, swap that if needed/desired as well.  

 

Both EJ25S (SOHC), right?  If so, yes, but when you do these swaps you generally just trade blocks and keep the intake manifold with the car.  That way you avoid any sensor disparities.

Oh - does this one mean a change of cam sprocket?

 

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

manual transmissions get a timing belt guard above the crank sprocket, swap that if needed/desired as well. 

I've been meaning to ask about this.  Why one and not the other?

no chance for the crank to turn backwards if an auto-trans car is bumped when parked.

Edited March 19, 20197 yr by 1 Lucky Texan

I don't understand.  It's just a guard that doesn't contact anything.

1 hour ago, jonathan909 said:

Both EJ25S (SOHC), right?  If so, yes, but when you do these swaps you generally just trade blocks and keep the intake manifold with the car.  That way you avoid any sensor disparities.

Not necessary on this swap, if you swap intake manifolds you'll still have a non-starting engine if the trigger marks mentioned above are different.  This is a well known engine there's no need to guess about intake manifolds.  Swap the p/s cam and crank sprocket and those two engines will swap every time. 

28 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

I don't understand.  It's just a guard that doesn't contact anything.

It keeps the belt from being able to jump teeth either during backwards roll, or high RPM, sudden off throttle for shift or engine braking.  

1 hour ago, FerGloyale said:

It keeps the belt from being able to jump teeth either during backwards roll, or high RPM, sudden off throttle for shift or engine braking.  

So why not just always have it there?  Why in one case and not the other?

Thank you guys. Im positive about the model year. And both of the subarus are auto. Looks like all the wiring and sensors are the same.

because of the torque converter, I guess there's much less risk of belt jump.

 

My WRX has FIVE of those things, 1 for each sprocket, kinda a hassle to set them back in place.

Okay, then no downside to having one on a motor with an AT.

other than hassle - no

I 'assume' there are bolt holes for them on all the blocks???

Edited March 20, 20197 yr by 1 Lucky Texan

48 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

other than hassle - no

I 'assume' there are bolt holes for them on all the blocks???

The bolt holes are in the oil pump housing. And if there’s a difference between auto and manual the answer could be no. 

I still don’t understand why the likes of the phase 1 EJ18, EJ20 and EJ22 (don’t know about the EJ25) didn’t have this little bracket if it’s such an issue - or is it an issue with the updated piston in arm type tensioner?

Cheers 

Bennie

ooohhh - good point on the tensioner style.

I thought the 'problem' of skipped belts on cars went way back to the late 70s even, - dunno if other makes got any kind of belt 'guard'/'guide or not, but, I have read of typical FWD econoboxes that were towed away to an impound lot having skipped timing when the owner goes to retrieve their car. Of COURSE a good TT driver should confirm the car is in neutral - but do they sometimes forget???

MT, parked, trans in 1st, hooked up to a stinger tow or w'ever, dragged away by tow truck and the tires turn the crank.

Or, car gets bumped by some other car.....could also happen if trans in Rev and car bumped from the back I guess.

 

here's one I found on another Forum;

Old thread I know, but this happened to me. I was parked noise up the hill, fairly steep and I left it in 1st gear. I didnt have the hand brake on strong enough (when I put the clutch in to start it, it rolled backwards). When I initially turned it over, it fired once but then nothing... Pulled the

timing covers off and sure enough, drivers side intake cam gear has jumped a tooth.
Motor has 15,000km on it, built EJ257, EJ207 heads, old style/2 piece tensioner. I have yet to disassemble and check the tensioner but I couldnt hear any symptoms prior.
I've been told that this isn't that uncommon and usually happens when the car is hauled in a tailor while in gear.
Anybody else have this happen?

 

Edited March 20, 20197 yr by 1 Lucky Texan

1 hour ago, el_freddo said:

The bolt holes are in the oil pump housing. And if there’s a difference between auto and manual the answer could be no. 

I still don’t understand why the likes of the phase 1 EJ18, EJ20 and EJ22 (don’t know about the EJ25) didn’t have this little bracket if it’s such an issue - or is it an issue with the updated piston in arm type tensioner?

Cheers 

Bennie

As far as I know they started them on the EJ25D.  Subarus first Interference engine. So I think they wanted to make sure it wouldn't jump.  I see lots of early engines without them.  Some the oil pump still has the holes, others they aren't there.

It's just that Manual trans the engine is much more likely to go from fully loaded pulling hard to 5500 rpms or more, then suddenly off throttle, no load, for a shift.

In an automatic, the engine isn't as likely to see high RPMs.  And when it does, the torque converter and shift solenoids drop the RPMs while keeping the load on the engine fairly steady.

There is a small modification that you may need to make, the PCV arrangement is different from the 2000 to the 2001. On the 2000 the PCV valve (old style) screws into the intake manifold and then there is a cluster of tubes going to the block and the air box. On the 2001 typically they use the "new style" PCV valve and it is screwed into the PCV pipe in the block with a simple hose connecting the two. The 2000 block has a non threaded pipe in the block so I typically jury rig a piece of hose to accept the PCV valve and rtv it in place then use the hose from the 2001 manifold to finish the connection. There is some variability in this stuff as all model years are not the same but typically this is what I see.

 

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 2:05 PM, jonathan909 said:

Okay, then no downside to having one on a motor with an AT.

Extra cost is why it was left off the AT vehicles.  The weight increase is negligible, but is being added to the heavy end of the car.