MilesTolle Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 (edited) This might be a long post but so you will no what is going on, and what I have done, maybe that will be helpful to those who are kind enough to respond. I have a 1993 Subaru Legacy 2.2 Automatic. A few days back when i needed to go to the store, the car died on me server times but would start back up for a while then die again, but i made it hope with it running and dieing. I then did as I know how for these models... the check engine came on and stayed on, so i knew there was a problem and the Computer had picked up the trouble code for said problem. So when I got home I connected the black connector under the drivers dash, and got the code for the maf sensor which that was my guess trying to get home that day. I then bought a new Maf sensor from A 1 auto online, I put it on and car no longer stalled or stumbled.... All seemed to be well. I then as i had in the past with this car I left the black connector connected and car on run but not started. then I unhooked the battery cables, let it set for an hour, then when i went to check if engine light was off.... the code was gone for map sensor.. but the check engine and the seat belt warning light was flashing off and on. So then i got the book down and it said to hook both the black connectors and the green connectors together, then turn on car but not start it, then hold gas pedal to the floor then half way then let the gas pedal go. then start the car and drive it and engine light would be gone That did not work... So then i read where you are suppose to start the car with both unhooked and then while engine is running hook both up the green and the black connectors... that did NOT work I then let car set over night with battery disconnected.. That did not work I then took computer out of car , unhooked battery cables, took connectors off the computer and let set for another hour... That did not work so since this car cannot pick up trouble codes for ignition, I went today and bought a new ignition coil pack, plug wires, plugs..... That did NOT work 103.00 for nothing. I am at the end of my rope I have cleared this trouble code in the past and never had this happen before, and engine light went out after the computer was cleared of the trouble code But now I have as I said a check engine constantly flashing..... and a seat belt warning light constantly flashing both black and green connectors are suppose to remain unhooked unless testing it, so that is not what is causing it. Anyone no of what is causing this , and what i can try in fixing it I sure would appreciate help... Thank you Edited September 5, 2020 by MilesTolle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) Many of those early ECM's will develop code salad and there's nothing you can do about it. You can clean all the grounds - especially on the manifold and between the engine/heads and the chassis/battery, etc. But it may not help. One of my loaner vehicles - a nicely maintained 1990 Legacy - developed about 6 codes after 250k on the chassis. Ran completely fine and got excellent gas mileage. Tried a few different things but eventually just told the owner to live with it. Fast foward to 320k miles - I acquired the car for a loaner vehicle and as a test platform. We replaced the ECM with a LINK standalone PnP unit. Absolutely NO other changes the harness, etc. The LINK is perfectly happy with the vehicle and all it's sensors and wiring. But of course the LINK and installation and tuning will run somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500 so that's probably not the solution you are looking for. Again - check and clean the grounds. Ensure the voltage supply is good..... beyond that you can try another ECU but they are all old as dirt at this point and many suffer from erroneous code salad..... possibly due to cracked solder joints, etc but it's anyone's guess. For me - I just rip it out and install a LINK like we do on the Vanagon swaps, etc. So much more capability. You might try baking the ECM circuit board in the oven after replacing any obviously bad caps, etc. Reflow the solder like the original Xbox boards. You would be surprised how often that fixes stuff. And definitely replace any electrolytic caps that are suspect. The seat belt warning is odd. That makes me think you have a power or ground problem. Not related to the ECM in any way. GD Edited September 6, 2020 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 as an aside.. you should NEVER disconnect the battery with the key in the on position.. that is just asking for trouble. codes will clear with the key turned off, then disconnecting battery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Thank you all for responding i sure appreciate it... Tomorrow i will clean all the grounds i find for the car, at this point anything is worth a shot. I am not sure how to go about doing this, I have never done anything like this before. baking the ECM circuit board in the oven after replacing any obviously bad caps, etc. Reflow the solder like the original Xbox boards. I guess it is required to take the board out of the casing to do it? Maybe i can find a video on it in case i need to try that also... I wish i could fix this thing though it has stressed me out so bad that I just now got home from the ER , Not sure if stress, heat..etc.... caused me to break out in hives, and make my mouth swell and feel numb or not. But i had blood work done and they seem to think its just a reaction to something.. Anyways I will check that out tomorrow and get back to you all, Again thank you all for Responding it sure is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Hhhmmm - if this is stressing you out that much - you might want to consider a newer car with a warranty. Or just walking. It's just a machine. And it's still running - just has a code. Check the fluids and continue driving till you come to a resolution. It's not worth going to the hospital over a little code. Electronics do that sort of thing when they are old - remember this is a 27 year old car we're talking about here. If you are going to drive old junk, then follow the rules of the game - buy a backup junker and get a AAA membership. Hospital bills are more expensive than a spare vehicle and some towing insurance. GD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 Hi , i cleaned all the grounds i could find and tightened them down again, but did not help. its weird I can plug in the black connector that checks codes under drivers side dash and the seat belt light goes off then , but according to all I have read on it , it is not suppose to stay connected unless you are checking for trouble codes, It was not connected before the map sensor went bad I know that for sure. But even doing that the check engine still flashes, I can also plug up the green connector on the drivers side under dash that checks for problems when driving car , it makes the fan's and other things cycle. i plug it in with engine off... then i press the gas pedal to the floor, then half way out and then let it go, and i start the car and as long as you are just in park the check engine stays off, but as soon as you put it in drive and move a few inches the check engine comes back on and starts flashing... I no there is no trouble code because then it will stay on solid without flashing... cause i tested that to be sure. The Clifton manual.... says to start the car and then plug in the black connector and the green connector and it is suppose to clear the codes, that does not sound right to me though, besides there is no trouble codes in the computer. I am not stressed out though, what you said made since its just check engine lights, no use letting that get to me i always figure it out sooner or later...lol If you have any other advise on what i can do please let me know...... I still am thinking about rather to bake the computer as you said, at this point I may try that tomorrow... Thank you very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 A CEL when driving indicates a fault. It will only flash when you plug in the check connectors. If it’s flashing consistently while driving it could be a problem with the auto or something else I’m not familiar with. If it’s intermittently flashing, or flashing under certain conditions that usually indicates a sensor that has an issue but then clears up. It could be a stored code that will point you in the right direction. I’ve not heard of the ECU cracked soldier issues. I run a 1993 EJ22 and factory ECU in my L series off-roader. It has not suffered any ECU related issues even though it’s seen plenty of rough roads, countless corrugations, dirt, moisture etc - more than a standard road going EJ22 would ever see. So from where I’m at, I don’t think that’s your issue - but GD would see more of these than I ever will too. You could see if you can borrow an ECU to swap in and see if that’s solves your issue. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Used ecus are cheap. $30 probably. Try one. chiltons manuals are not good. I’d throw it away and get a free FSM online somewhere. It could easily be wrong. The battery disconnect dance is unnecessary. and probably stressful to keep doing something that will never fix it, that you hope might help. It will clear up on its own once it’s fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) Thanks I checked for other codes by plugging in the black connector but when its constantly flashing then it will not work to pick up a trouble code.. .. So what i did was i unplugged a sensor then started car and when the ECU picked up that sensor the check engine then would remain on... SO then i cut car off plugged back in sensor, then plugged back in the black connector under dash that is used to read trouble codes, and then turn key on and it would flash codes to let me know it picked up that sensor.... So then once it did that I unplugged the black connector.... when car was not on and then unplugged battery for up to 30 min... Once connecting battery again i turned key to on, and once again check engine light flashing over and over, and no codes stored in it now cause check engine light was not remaining on, but flashing over and over instead. So it seems that when you clear the trouble codes from the ECU it causes the check engine light to flash over and over instead of remaining off...... And still even the seat belt warning light is flashing off and on to..... Hard to believe this happen just cause of having a Maf sensor go bad, then buy new one, clear the code the ECU picked up for it being bad, and then Now i have a check engine light laughing at me and a seat belt warning light laughing at me..lol Edited September 10, 2020 by MilesTolle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 the constant flashing is not "normal" by any means, and is either indicating an additional problem that has not set a proper code yet, or possibly an ECU failure of some kind my question to you is - the MAF sensor you installed - is it a genuine Subaru part, or aftermarket? If aftermarket, that could very well be the source of your troubles.. the car does not like/is not happy with that part - something about it is incompatible with the car. and again.. this is a 27 year old car.. things do not last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 I bought it from A1 Auto parts online, and read the reviews from others who had bought the same one and they had all positive things to say about the part. And it fixed the car as far as running it now runs great, when the Maf sensor was bad it would drive a few feet then die.. And did that over and over. But now even in test driving it for two miles so far it runs like it did before which is great. Also this car is in great shape, I have maintained it from day one of owning it.. If drove no one would think it was that old.... Today i was checking out the connectors under the dash.... And found there is another black connector behind the black connector used to get trouble codes..... That one is suppose to stay plugged in the one behind but I unplugged it today to just see what would happen and when i did the check engine light went off and stopped flashing.... I think that one picks up sensors and other stuff and sends it to the ECU and then when it reaches the ECU it receives the problem and sets a trouble code in return causes the check engine light to come on and stay on until problem fixed. So for now i guess I will leave that one unplugged then in a couple weeks plug it back in to see if maybe the ECU reset itself to where it stops blinking. As for the seat belt warning light flashing, I reckon i am going to try another one of those seat belt relay things in the drivers side trunk , even though the belts still retract and so forth , maybe there is still something in it making the seat belt warning light flash, I no if i unplug that box the light stops flashing but of course the belts no longer automatically work.. when opening and closing door. So guess I will see how that goes.. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Or maybe you fixed it? Sounds like maybe a memory mode or test connector was left connected or unconnected when it shouldn’t have been? “ECU needing to reset itself” is not a potential condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 20 hours ago, heartless said: The constant flashing is not "normal" by any means, and is either indicating an additional problem that has not set a proper code yet, or possibly an ECU failure of some sort It is when it’s flashing the model designation code and has no other codes to show. Glad you got it sorted. I was going to suggest that one set of connectors are still plugged in but you found them already. Only have them plugged in without running the engine for code viewing purposes. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 I am not positive though that the way I had to do it is right, cause the two black connectors I unhooked is right behind the same identical black connectors that is used to connect when reading the code...... The two i unhooked to get the check engine light to go off has been plugged in since owning the car and had no problem like this ever happen before The Green connectors usually is what makes the check engine light keep flashing over and over.. but they are unplugged, and it kept flashing... the two black connectors used to connect together that reads the memory codes stored in the ECU when something goes wrong is also unplugged, and just plugged in when trying to see if it has a trouble code... but even it unhooked the engine light kept flashing... SO around the wearing on that side i just kept unconnecting things to see if check engine light would go off... and finally the one wired connector that looks again identical to the black connectors used to read code, I unplugged it and engine light stop blinking, but in doing so I am not sure I am going to test it to see for sure, but now I think if you get a problem with a sensor the check engine light will not come on to let you no the ECU stored a code to check to see what the problem is.. I do no when you turn car to run the engine light appears and then goes out when you start the car... But again going to unplug a sensor just to see if engine light will come on when it picks up something wrong.. If anything its a fix for now then in a couple weeks i will plug that one back in to see if the ECU reset itself to stop blinking the check engine light. as for the seat belt I still am just going to try another one of those selt belt warning monitors or what ever you call it... Right now if i plug in the black connectors that is used to read the codes the seat belt light stops blinking but if i unplug that one the seat belt light keeps flashing over and over... Its a headache but someone has to have the headache..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 You need to identify what that set of black plugs are then. Find a wiring schematic at go over it. I’ve only ever known one set of green, one set of black plugs. Can’t remember which ones to connect to read codes - I do know they all need to be disconnected when driving the car. In Oz we didn’t get those seatbelt thingys because we wear our seatbelts due to laws requiring us to, and it’s second nature when you grow up with wearing seatbelts. There is no doubt more wiring related to those sorts of systems that we didn’t get. Your check engine light will still do its thing, but test away anyway! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 yep the green is on the left side of dash under steering wheel which is used to test the sensors when driving the car a short period of time to see if it picks up anything wrong... then unplug when done.... the set of black connectors on the right side under the dash that are visibly in front is used to test for codes when check engine light comes on and stays on.. then when reading codes unplug and leave unplugged...... What i found is another one identical in looks behind that black one.... and i unplugged it and the check engine light went off flashing.... but today i will see if it is for sending the signal of a bad sensor to the ECU and then check engine light comes on to let me know.... that is what i think its for and has to remain plugged up if so to be able to perform that duty, but today i will see when i unplug a sensor with it unplugged if it will still cause the check engine light to come on when unplugging a sensor to see.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 I no it has to do something with the ECU picking up codes... What i did was I wanted to see if i disconnected something like the throttle sensor if the engine light would come on with it unplugged... So i did that and then started the car in around two seconds the engine light did come on with that one unplugged, but then you can restart the car and the check engine like is no longer on. So that would mean the trouble code is still in the ECU for the sensor, but I would not no if there was a code if engine started again since engine light is now off... So what i did was then with engine off i plugged back in the black connector and the engine light was not on... so then i turned engine off and plugged in also the other black connector that is the one that makes the engine light blink to read codes... so turned engine to run and engine light started blinking.. read codes and it picked up the throttle sensor i had unplugged. so then cleared the trouble code from the ecu by disconnecting the negative cable for a while, then plugged back in , unplugged the one connector that is black that reads the codes, but left the other black one plugged in.... engine light on again and blinking over and over instead of staying off. So that one black one on the back side of the wiring is apparently the one that makes the engine light come on when it picks up something wrong with a sensor or something. and keeps it on till problem is fixed. Just thought someone might be interested in what that one is for if you want tomorrow i can take a photo of the two different ones and show you what i mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/5/2020 at 9:44 PM, GeneralDisorder said: Many of those early ECM's will develop code salad and there's nothing you can do about it. You can clean all the grounds - especially on the manifold and between the engine/heads and the chassis/battery, etc. But it may not help. One of my loaner vehicles - a nicely maintained 1990 Legacy - developed about 6 codes after 250k on the chassis. Ran completely fine and got excellent gas mileage. Tried a few different things but eventually just told the owner to live with it. Fast foward to 320k miles - I acquired the car for a loaner vehicle and as a test platform. We replaced the ECM with a LINK standalone PnP unit. Absolutely NO other changes the harness, etc. The LINK is perfectly happy with the vehicle and all it's sensors and wiring. But of course the LINK and installation and tuning will run somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500 so that's probably not the solution you are looking for. Again - check and clean the grounds. Ensure the voltage supply is good..... beyond that you can try another ECU but they are all old as dirt at this point and many suffer from erroneous code salad..... possibly due to cracked solder joints, etc but it's anyone's guess. For me - I just rip it out and install a LINK like we do on the Vanagon swaps, etc. So much more capability. You might try baking the ECM circuit board in the oven after replacing any obviously bad caps, etc. Reflow the solder like the original Xbox boards. You would be surprised how often that fixes stuff. And definitely replace any electrolytic caps that are suspect. The seat belt warning is odd. That makes me think you have a power or ground problem. Not related to the ECM in any way. GD I think today I am going to try to bake it like you suggested doing... is there also anywhere i can find online that explains how to install a link like you mentioned as well? and if i have to replace some of the caps where do i purchase new ones at? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 5 hours ago, MilesTolle said: and if i have to replace some of the caps where do i purchase new ones at? I would replace all of the (aluminum can) electrolytic capacitors on the board. The liquid electrolyte inside them dries out with age, non-use and heat. Some will leak out on the board and eat the copper traces. They seem to last much longer when used like in a radio or TV as long as they don't get hot. Make a note of the values on each one and its location on the board. uF or MFD (microfarad) and DC voltage. All of them should have a stripe lengthwise with a - minus symbol for the negative lead. The pc board can be marked for the negative or positive wire, so "take note of the marks" when you remove them. Some boards are marked with a half circle. Most of these caps have the two wires coming out the end and is called Radial leads. If a wire comes out each end it is called Axial leads. The temp rating might be 105C. If lower, I would use 105C or higher. For the diameter find one the same so the leads will be spaced the same as the holes on the board. Highly unlikely, if there is no minus symbol then it is a bipolar cap (used in audio and frequency) and must be replaced with the same. A common practice is to apply a little silicone gasket compound or hot melt glue to the gap between the cap and the board to control vibration so the leads do not break. Try to find a local electronics store. There are a bunch of online stores. Or try this web site. https://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Radial-Leaded/_/N-75hqw Note on reverse install of caps. I've never done it, but one place I worked at hired a new guy and the first thing he worked on was a big audio power amp. After replacing the bridge rectifier and the electrolytic cap (inch and a half dia. by 4 inches tall ) he hit the power switch and the cap blew up and the can embedded itself in the ceiling. Just glad it was not pointed at me. The little ones pop and make a mess with the paper and foil from the inside. So, pay attention to polarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 35 minutes ago, Rampage said: ..Make a note of the values on each one and its location on the board... +1. Photographs; photographs; photographs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvu Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, MilesTolle said: I think today I am going to try to bake it like you suggested doing... is there also anywhere i can find online that explains how to install a link like you mentioned as well? and if i have to replace some of the caps where do i purchase new ones at? Thank you you cannot bake them with electrolytic capacitors installed. theyll get ruined before the solder reflows. you have to remove all of them prior. ive done video cards and made custom reflow kits. theyre not car ecus but same idea applies. heres a general idea on how it works https://www.google.com/search?q=reflow+car+ecu Edited September 25, 2020 by nvu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 Thank you all for the information i appreciate it.. will give all this a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTolle Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 I am having to order some parts from a subaru dealer online but it ask me this 2. L GRADE : BASE 2. L GRADE : LS 2. L GRADE : TURBO 2. L LENGTH 2. L LIMITED SLIP DIFFERRENTIAL 4. L GRADE : L/RHD 4. L GRADE : LS 4. L GRADE : TURBO 4. L LENGTH 4. L LIMITED SLIP DIFFERRENTIAL I cannot think of which it could be it is in the selection you have to pick before you can order my vin number is JF1BC6532PH603118 could someone tell me which one i should pick from the list so that I can begin ordering the parts i need thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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