LuckyPistol Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 OK, So I take my 1986 1.8L 4 , into a local place to get MY OIL PUMP installed. I aksed this board about what else to get installed, They say water pump, timing belts, cam and crank shafts. OK< no problem. I got a few estimats before I went with this company - Around 5.5 - 6.0 hrs. to do the work OK, no problem. I settled with this comp., they were not the cheapest, and they had pleenty of mechanics. Now, they have my car for one day, call me the next day and say "Oh, the reason why your Water pump went bad, was because of the Fan Clutch". HELLO, I didnt have a problem with my water pump before I brought it in, Now, the Fan Clutch is 175.00??? Wtf? Could this be true? are they pulling my leg? And now, after 3 days working on this car, they say that the camshaft pully was bad? 160.00?? and a tensioner? 35.00?? I had NO problems before i brought this car in. I bought all my parts, just wanted them to install. Now, my bill is over a $1000 , what can I do? Please help. have they ripped me off? can I negotiate the bill? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Oh, that was cam and crankshaft SEALS btw...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Cam pulleys don't go bad. If it is they boogered it. Clutch fans do not cause bad water pumps. When they go out they lose tension. Chances are they took it apart incorrectly and now it won't go back together. Tensioners do go bad but you would have heard the bearings going bad. Unfortunately, it sounds like they didn't have the experience neccessary for working on your car. Ask to see the "bad" parts. Look for gouges on the cam pulley. If they are present then they just bought you a pulley. As far as the clutch fan have them show you what is wrong with it. Spin it by hand if it is still in one piece. Is there resistance when you rotate it? If it has been taken apart then they owe you a new one. Give us details after you look at the parts and we'll try to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I agree with Qman on this one. The only way that the fan clutch could damage the water pump is if something went horribly wrong causing it to go out of balance. If that happened, you would have heard and felt all kinds of strange stuff going on. Also like Ken said, the timing belt pulleys do not need replacement unless something gets fubared really badly. They screwed up there. Not too sure about the timing belt tensioners though, as these do wear out. Have them show you the "defective" ones. If you can feel play or drag in them, it was time for replacement. If not, they were just fine. I wouldn't go to this shop anymore though, that's for sure. At best they do shoddy work, and at worst they ripped you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 well if they still have it watch them tell you you have bent valves bacause they dont know how to line up the timing belts to the correct marks if they finish the job and the car dont run right ask for all of your money back. anyway i have seen 2 card bought for CHEAP because they barely ran after having them fixed. both sellers said the mechanics told them they had a bent valve(from broken timing belt replacement). in reality they lined both cams up instead of opposite, and lined them up to 0degbtdc instead of the 3 marks on the flywheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 Thanks very much for the advice so far , very helpful- Now - I will be picking the car up tomorrow (monday) and I'll ask to see the parts in question. I didnt think a pulley goes bad, unless the mechanic really messed up. Or the Fan clutch for that matter. I had doubts when they said it would take one day, and it has turned into 4 DAYS.!! Now the last post has me really scared. Bent valves? oh man !! Shall I test drive the car before I pay the bill as well? Now, when I do, The car should run smoothly with no valve's clicking true? Now, what lead me to bring the car in was the OIL PUMP, because I do have the "tick/click of death" . So, I figure, with the new OIL PUMP , It should do 2 things: 1) No more valves clicking - (Car should run silently basically) 2) Increased oil pressure at the guage. Anything else I can do/see/listen to make sure of no "Bent Valves?" Thanks - and I will be updating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Thanks very much for the advice so far , very helpful- Now - I will be picking the car up tomorrow (monday) and I'll ask to see the parts in question. I didnt think a pulley goes bad, unless the mechanic really messed up. Or the Fan clutch for that matter. I had doubts when they said it would take one day, and it has turned into 4 DAYS.!! Now the last post has me really scared. Bent valves? oh man !! Shall I test drive the car before I pay the bill as well? Now, when I do, The car should run smoothly with no valve's clicking true? Now, what lead me to bring the car in was the OIL PUMP, because I do have the "tick/click of death" . So, I figure, with the new OIL PUMP , It should do 2 things: 1) No more valves clicking - (Car should run silently basically) 2) Increased oil pressure at the guage. Anything else I can do/see/listen to make sure of no "Bent Valves?" Thanks - and I will be updating. Dude...next time you need your car worked on....send me an email: wmaham1701@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boing Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Holy Cow.. what a nightmare. I didn't catch your original post before you had this work done and I'm sorry for that. I have a very helpful thing to do if or when you have some work done again. I tell the shop that I will have the work done if they will agree to let me take some digital pictures of the engine. I haven't had anybody tell me no yet. In this particular case you could of taken digital pictures of your pulleys and the fan clutch and of the pulleys. A good picture of the timing belts and seals would be a good idea when they get the cover off. It really sounds like perhaps they have done damage themselves trying to get the pulley's off but it's hard to have the proof of that now. I wouldn't hesitate to ask them which marks they used when they did the timing. Even though late... I hope this will be of help later. Boing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Wil, Dont worry I will call you .!! LOL") Boing - I wouldnt have time to take pictures of every faze of the tear down. I dont have a camera anyway. I am wondering about these bent valves. And if anyone else thinks I got ripped off...... I am sure of it, just need reinforcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Ok, Pick up car. I was able to get a 10% discount due to my , well, let's say questions. I did not ask to see parts. They did say that the Crank pulley was stuck and basically had to rip it out of there. All - in All, drove it all day , and it runs great. So far, I guess I am happy. Thanks for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 the valves will NOT bend on these motors due to the setup of the non interferance heads unlike a bunch of other imported cars like Mistubishis. I have a guy I work with have a shop (an import tuner shop which specializes in hopping up Eclipses) tell him that he has a bent valve and blah blah blah. Well I went over to work on it one morning after work and started it up. There were no noises coming form the motor, I even checked a few things like the plugs! Runs like a champ with no problems! Now....taking a car to a shop is crap, I'd rather do it myself... Long story short, took the Camaro to a shop when I couldn't figure it out i highschool, told me the timing chain had jumped a few teeth and so the timing was off. Replaced it with a new one and later found out, the fuse for the passenger side fuel injectors was missing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 WELL, WELL, WELL...........DAmmit.! Its been 2-3 weeks now since i picked up my car. (Have driven it less than 60-70 miles) When I picked it up, it did have this very faint sound of bearings grinding. Since they installed the oil pump (Which was causing the tick of death sound). The car sounded much much quieter, so I didn't think much about it. WELL - gradually, this bearing sound has gotten louder, and Louder, and then yesterday LOUDER.!! Full blown grinding sound!! I was so pissed. I checked all pulley to see if any were loose. All tight. I then drive it back to the same place (Yes, because they gave me 1 yr, warenty on parts and labor). Thinking they have screwed something up. The service guy looked around. He happened to check my power steering fluid , which while it was low, he filled it up, Saying "sometimes if this gets low, while make the power steering pump gring or go bad. Wel, it didn't help a lick. Still LOUD rump roast bearing grinding sound. Now, it seems that it is coming from the PSteering pump. But not sure, So he is checking it out today. I am so depressed, Because, ALL I EVER NEEDED was the frickin Oil Pump replaced. The rest of the car was perfect.!! Now, I bought all these other parts to help extend the life of my subby , and I feel its backfiring on me. What do you think it sounds like? I will update this when he let's me know what it is FOR sure. I just feel it's something they did. It's just a feeling, but we shall see. wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 You know those lifters which were ticking. Well a lot of times they tick because the oil pump gasket is damaged allowing air to get entraped in the oil affecting the lifters. I've never had to replace an oil pump on any of my Subaru's to ever make the noise go away. Next time tell them to just replace the gasket. I haven't filled my PS pump up in years, its dry as a bone and makes no noise. Don't really need PS anyway. Also, if you have a good oil pump gasket and it ticks. Drain a quart of oil out and add a quart of ATF. I run this trick and it cleans out the lifters real nice. Seafoam works well too. Save some money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 You are exactly right Mr. Radon - ALL I ever needed was a frickin $5.50 GASKET.!!!!!! But, after coming here and reading and asking, it was SUGGESTED I go ahead and replace Oil pump, water pump, cam and crank seals, etc... This has got to be the biggest blunder I have ever done in the history of owning cars. This thing has turned into a $1200.00 + nightmare. And I feel this board for RESPONSIBLE for ALL THIS!!!! I came here looking for help, Oh, I got HELP ALRIGHT $1200.00 + and the meter is still running Help!!! Let me give some advice to the NEW PEOPLE. (OR non-mechanics) Take what this board suggests with a grain of salt. They OWE me $1200.00 ++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I'm gonna try and say this with a bit of tact................ You came here for advice. You got advice. You took your car to a shop that you had no experience with and you got taken. Every bit of what every person gave you for advice was sound, and free. You are working on a 19 year old car, did you ever consider that one problem was masking another??? I spent $800 having a shop do exactly what you just did, I bought genuine Subaru parts and took it to a shop I knew and trusted. Before you start spewing about the advice you got here, how about taking a good long look at your responsibility for your car. If you learn half a lesson from this I bett it's a lesson you won't soon forget.......... Believe me when I say "been there, done that". Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Don't be upset, we have all been "had" by repair shops at one time or another. In my case, the dealership poured oil down the preheat tube which goes to the catalytic converter, causing a rather nice engine fire, which I caught before it caused any real damage. Subaru are VERY easy to service and VERY reliable. The key is to find a good mechanic, or in my case, do it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 After reading the posts on this I don't feel you were led down the wrong path LuckyPistol. The items that were suggested to be replaced are normal for an engine of that age. I also don't think the shop did you any real injustice either unless they were trying to cover up something they did wrong while working on the engine. For the most part they replaced parts that should be replaced while working in the area. As far as advice from this board is concerned, I think Chef Tim stated things well. I will also add that most of the members here will give advice that is as good or better than some pros in the repair business. Some members will also go on location and help others with the repairs, and all this is for FREE. We do this for the satisfaction of trying to help someone out. So now, as Forrest said, "that's all I've got to say about that". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 #1 If a shop finds something else wrong with a car while doing requested maintenence, they should call the owner for the go ahead before doing the maintenence. The shop you took it to either didn't do this, and you should talk to the local chamber of commerce, or you were a stupid sucker and gave the go ahead for all this unnnececary work. #2 Doing the other seals and the belts while you're in there makes sense. Replacing the whole oil pump doesn't. Just the "micky mouse" gasket needs replacing. If you had used the SEARCH function, you would have seen 100 frickin posts on this. Don't blame us for not doing research. I even know this and I haven't even replaced the gasket. #3 Your power steering pump probably failed because they overtightened the belt. This puts too much stress on the bearings, leading to failure. Probably the shops fault and an easy mistake to make. #4 Spending $1200 on a car this old isn't worth it most of the time. Anyone with any economic sense would realize that before aproving that much work. Ever heard of a mechanic giving a quote before doing work? #5 As shown by your last post, you are not a nice person. You come across as an arrogant prick who tries to blame their personal screw ups on other people. Please do not return here. We don't need your kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Everybody, this post has got a little too inflamed. Please stop the anger. Loyale91: I edited your post to remove that last statement. It was a bit overboard and I think you conveyed your thoughts adequately in what is remaining. LuckyPistol also did not say "negro", he said "nego". One letter can make a big difference. The spirit of his statement was not racial. LuckyPistol: I spelled out the word "nego" in your post. I am sorry about your situation with your car. This board is full of experienced Subaru owners, but you are in the "drivers seat" with respect to your car. Weigh and measure all advice and use accordingly. Regards, Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 OK, I do remember the first post. You asked what else should be checked or replaced at this time. You were given good advice. Not neccessarily that these parts had to be replaced but that it would be easier to replace them now considering the age of the vehicle. I also told you to check the parts they replaced to verify the condition and get back to us. You did neither. You jumped to a conclusion that this is now our responsibility? Seems to me that they were very quick to give you a discount. Why is that? So, instead of coming unglued I would suggest that you examine the entire incident and see where you end up. I am sorry that your bill ended up so high. Way too much money for the job they did. I don't know any shop that charges that much per hour. Good luck with the car and BTW, it won't need any repairs for quite a while if that is any consolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Very well stated Subaru3 and Qman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 USMB cannot and will not be held responsible for anything that happens outside of the internet. As stated...it is always good measure to replace all the front end seals if you are going to be in there doing something...along with the water pump.... I think I PM'ed you or stated before that any Joe BLow shop is going to rip anyone a new one for working on some carthey dont have a clue about...there are ONLY about 5 places in NC that I would trust w/any subaru...2 of those are dealers, the other two are in WNC, and one is in Salisbury...north of Charlotte by about 1hr or so. Either way, this 'new' problem should be covered by that shop...and next time, take it to a real suby mechanic. That said, I could have done all that work in 4 hrs, at the cost of just the OE parts and lunch/gas money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 WJM - Just make sure that Southern States Subaru is NOT on your "good list" - they are the dealership that tried to make a fireball out of my car. Where are the other dealers? I have a guy in Sparta I trust, and a general foreign auto mechanic I trust in Raleigh (he mostly works on high-performance like DeLoriens and Lotuses (sorry for the misspelling) - my parents may be getting a new/used Soob (prob. a Forester) so I would like to find a good dealer, hopefully nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 WJM - Just make sure that Southern States Subaru is NOT on your "good list" - they are the dealership that tried to make a fireball out of my car. Where are the other dealers? I have a guy in Sparta I trust, and a general foreign auto mechanic I trust in Raleigh (he mostly works on high-performance like DeLoriens and Lotuses (sorry for the misspelling) - my parents may be getting a new/used Soob (prob. a Forester) so I would like to find a good dealer, hopefully nearby. I know they suck. Prestige and Folgers is on the good list for SUBARUs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyPistol Posted January 25, 2005 Author Share Posted January 25, 2005 I want to apologize to everyone. Of course I was upset and I had a few drinks in me before I posted the rant. I know everyone suggested good things. I found out today that it is indeed my power steering pump. So I gritted my teeth and asked "how much" would it be to fix it?. He is like $325.00 for every thing. He also said there might be another pulley going bad. I am at my wits end with this thing. I read a few posts back, that they may have tightened my belts too tight, which could of damaged my PS pump?? It's funny you say that, because when I came to pick it up, I started it, and it was making a slight,squeaky, bearing type noise. The guy goes and gets the belt dresssing, spray it all over the belts, pulleys, and all goes quiet. A day later, I had to do it again. And then , the grinding started to get louder, and no dressing was helping. I believe it, because I had NO , I repeat NO other sounds, problems with this car before I brought it in to them. Now, I am sure they screwed up a few things (fan clutch, crankshaft pulley). But I was a fool as to absorb that. But I figured the car would go for another 100K now, so I just took it. And Now, I am sure they had the belts to damn tight. But How can I prove it now? They sure arent going to admit it I am sure. I have found someone else who is much more honest and cheaper, (and better I hope). Anyway, I cant find a PS pump online, I've looked. But can someone give me a reasonable estimate for doing the PS pump. Parts and labor. Thanks again. And hopefully I can post back with great things about this car in the future. 1986 Subaru GL 1.8 FI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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