sregor13 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 strange... i find the seats in my 03 impreza outback to be very comfortable... much more comfortable than my old 89 camry wagon and a little more comfortable than my girlfriend's 02 jetta (hers are a bit too firm in my opinion). Wouldnt know what it was like in any 03 Car. The 96 Impreza is about as firm as they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Wouldnt know what it was like in any 03 Car. The 96 Impreza is about as firm as they get. after sitting in a firmer seat, i found they were more comfortable for driving than a plush seat (which is what the camry had). but the jetta had the firmest seat i've ever been in, although not uncomfortable. it's all really personal preference since my back isn't the greatest, so the firmer seats help keep my back comfy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sregor13 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I prefer Subaru's over VW or anything else. I think a couple of the GL's I owned were assembled in Mexico. I dont have proof, but when I buy parts I am asked if I have the North American Model or the North Amercian Model. I know Mexico is in North America. I have been there more than once. I think Japanese make great electronics. So do Germans. As far as cars go, there are some very nice Germans Cars. Ever ride in a BMW? They are sweet. By the way Subaru's are not cheap, or cheap to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Do you think Suabru's are not expensive. I realize you are only 19 and probably dont have a alot of experience in buying cars. Germans make some awesome cars. I prefer Subaru's but I am not about to start trashing on German Cars becasue I have seen alot of lame Subaru's as well. subaru's are not as expensive as almost any german car. the jetta is more expensive than the impreza, the passat more expensive than the legacy. VW does not make anything comparable to the outback at this time. however, compared to toyota, honda, and nissan, subarus are more expensive... but they've also got more features (AWD for starters). as for german cars... i don't know where the whole german electronics thing came into play... that's just dumb saying that germans make the best electronics... but their cars are good. however, they do have a history of electrical problems (as seen in VW/audi). the german engineering that these cars are known for has nothing to do with electronics, it's the engines and stuff that they're known for. in response to the other kid's comment about his subaru lasting well over 200k and 20+ years... i know plenty of people who have BMW's, mercedes, VW's, and audis that last that long... i knew one guy who had a diesel audi that he bought with 200k on it. drove it across the country and back. got rid of it at 300k. german cars are good. cars in general have gone downhill a bit. they're not build like they used to. they're not made to go forever because people keep them for the term of the lease and trade them in for something new. that never used to happen. and he's right about the impreza... they're built in japan still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sregor13 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 as for german cars... i don't know where the whole german electronics thing came into play... that's just dumb saying that germans make the best electronics... but their cars are good. however, they do have a history of electrical problems (as seen in VW/audi). the german engineering that these cars are known for has nothing to do with electronics, it's the engines and stuff that they're known for. Let me qoute myself to clear up you thinking that what I said was dumb "They make some of the best electronics available. I dont know about there automotive. But they certainly make some of the worlds greatest electronics." I didnt say they make the best- I said they make "some of" I stand by that statement. Japanese also make great electronics. I think it dumb to trash on VW just to prove how great Subaru is..........tipsy, fuddled, boozy , groggy, elevated, prime did edit her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Let me qoute myself to clear up you thinking that what I said was dumb "They make some of the best electronics available. I dont know about there automotive. But they certainly make some of the worlds greatest electronics." I didnt say they make the best- I said they make "some of" I stand by that statement. Japanese also make great electronics. I think it dumb to trash on VW just to prove how great Subaru is..........tipsy, fuddled, boozy , groggy, elevated, prime did edit her my apologies... i was confusing that with the other guy who said that german electronics are top of the line... and yes, it is dumb to trash something else to prove something else is better... however, between subaru and VW... having driving both for a considerable amount of time... i'd go subaru (at least with the smaller car). fat bulk expanse mass lump block clod... <img> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinaA Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Well, I was planning on staying out of this debate, but here I go anyway.... I have about three weeks off coming up in June and I was planning to drive across the country with a good friend- but not in my Subaru (96 Leg Outback 5M). I love the car to pieces, but it's just not a "road" car. It's a great commuter and wonderful for northern winters, but the germans have subaru beat for comfort and road manners. In fact, I'm seriously considering buying a very well maintained (2 owners with complete records from day 1) 1988 Mercedes 300SE (full size) with 170k for $2200 bucks. It needs a little exhaust work and has some rust (17 yrs in salt) but it's been maintained for "long hauls" by its previous owner. When I drove this thing, I couldn't believe how much more solid it was than my Sub. Now, I know a Benz is an electrical nightmare (but anyone else with a Sub had your dash lights fail?), and costs a fortune to fix, but it's just a better car for the road. Period. I can't imagine listening to a buzzing subaru for 5000 miles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTrain Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Well, I was planning on staying out of this debate, but here I go anyway.... I have about three weeks off coming up in June and I was planning to drive across the country with a good friend- but not in my Subaru (96 Leg Outback 5M). I love the car to pieces, but it's just not a "road" car. It's a great commuter and wonderful for northern winters, but the germans have subaru beat for comfort and road manners. In fact, I'm seriously considering buying a very well maintained (2 owners with complete records from day 1) 1988 Mercedes 300SE (full size) with 170k for $2200 bucks. It needs a little exhaust work and has some rust (17 yrs in salt) but it's been maintained for "long hauls" by its previous owner. When I drove this thing, I couldn't believe how much more solid it was than my Sub. Now, I know a Benz is an electrical nightmare (but anyone else with a Sub had your dash lights fail?), and costs a fortune to fix, but it's just a better car for the road. Period. I can't imagine listening to a buzzing subaru for 5000 miles! aww a buzzin soob aint too bad.. lets ya know its still running.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equalizer Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 My family has owned the same Subaru for 20 years - we have beaten the crap out of it - in that time we have gone through at least four other cars, due to some form of catastrophic failure - I don't idolize my car, but I find that it fulfills my needs amply, and 20 years AFTER it was manufactured - I do not see much purposeful nor sophisticated criticism in this thread - mainly what I see is disgruntled people making a pointless arguement as to "my car's better than yours" - most of which is baseless scientifically, and otherwise - the thousands who have traveled well over 200k in these cars are not being represented I have my expierence, and many others who I come in contact with, most of whom have a minimum of thirty years of expierence under the hood: Subarus are easier to work on, cheaper to maintain, and more reliable than their counterpart German cars - period. ANY statistics will back that up. Consumer Reports or not. German cars have more luxuries and a more popular appeal because they are expensive - German engineering was great 20+ years ago, but since then, it has been unremarkable What you have stated may be true of some, yet others in this as well as many other threads have had, IMHO, some legitamate gripes. I'm sure that they wish that they could have gone as far as you and yours w/out a head gasket failure. You make some good points. I have been a fan of Subarus for many years too. I also agree with you concerning the principal of reliability, and ease of repair compared to most companies foreign and domestic. I hope you didn't take it personal as to the statement in which you quoted me, as I don't think that you worship Subarus. I was only trying to convey what I've seen in so many other forums; that of people becomming highly defensive when someone points out a flaw in their idols. It is just refreshing to be able to interact and hear the experiences of others who like subarus, who aren't afraid to point out a flaw when it needs addressing. Key word, "objectivity". Again, I hope that someone who can do something from the company is reading this and taking notes. Glad to hear of your 20 years in one car. I thought I had bragging rights when my Old GL went over 10 years and over 268,000 mi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Maybe I just have fairly good luck. In 300,000 miles my Mercedes had a fuel pump every 150,000, a couple of relays, the power antenna, and one altenator. This was in 17 years of ownership so I don't think that's too bad. My BMW is a 99 like my Forester and it had a gas guage and side window motor on warranty and nothing else. Neither the window or the guage completely failed, they were replaced with updates because of possible problems. I bought the Subie used so I don't know if anybody replaced anything before me, but the only electrical problems have been the stereo and a few bulbs. The BMW has required no out of warranty expenses but cost twice as much as the Subie to begin with. Now don't ask about seals, head gaskets, clutch and a few other things. My Subie has not had a pretty story here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnossirb Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 127K miles that would be nice my 02 Legacy GT needed head gaskets at 61000 miles. Imagine that 1000 miles over the warranty. Junk. I'm used to Hondas and Toyotas you change the oil you drive end of story. Subaru seems to have the same build quality as your typical, dare I say it, American car. This is definitly my last one, I don't care how much it snows here in VT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
envy_petter Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 127K miles that would be nice my 02 Legacy GT needed head gaskets at 61000 miles. Imagine that 1000 miles over the warranty. Junk. I'm used to Hondas and Toyotas you change the oil you drive end of story. Subaru seems to have the same build quality as your typical, dare I say it, American car. This is definitly my last one, I don't care how much it snows here in VT. DUDE!!!! Head gaskets were recalled from '99 to '02! That should have been taken care of gratis! I'd look into it further... You're welcome to e-mail me for further details. mark_nuz@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 By the way Subaru's are not cheap, or cheap to work on. Old Subarus are. The new ones seem to be going towards the luxury market too much for my tastes, instead of being the poorman's 4wd like they used to be in the '80's and even early 90's. May be why I still own an '89 subaru.... The MKIV Jettas really are terrible on dirt roads, and fairly expensive to maintain after they start getting up in miles. My friend took his oil pan out once driving around Mexico on dirt roads. Other than that, it was a much nicer car than any subaru or honda I've driven -- definitely much faster too. We could cruise at 90mph on road trips, and still get over 40mpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 127K miles that would be nice my 02 Legacy GT needed head gaskets at 61000 miles. Imagine that 1000 miles over the warranty. Junk. I'm used to Hondas and Toyotas you change the oil you drive end of story. Subaru seems to have the same build quality as your typical, dare I say it, American car. This is definitly my last one, I don't care how much it snows here in VT. You have obviously never owned a Toyota. I have owned many, the 3.0 v6 has terrible hg issues, as well as the new 3.4 motors. The RAV4 have major issues with sludge and deposits in the engine and timing belts need replacement ever 60k and dealerships charge $1400 for the service. Yes there are some HG issues, but that aside Subaru's are very reliable and cheap easy to work on. I agree they are still not up to Honda which imo is the benchmark for the industry. I also hate hearing about how old Subaru's were so much better. What about the HG issues on GL-10s? What about the constant oil leaks on the 1.8 motors, etc. Have you ever replaced the timing belts in a 1.8 before? How many times have you had to re-seal the oil pump? I am not drinking the Kool-Aid here, I am just saying overall Subaru's are very solid reliable vehicles and they are not as bad as what you will find from Ford,GM, Audi, VW, etc. vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 ANy car can blow a head gasket over 100K, and usually will if its a 4 cyl. My honda civic did it, so did my niassan, keep it long enough it will happen on an aluminum engine.. People expect these tiny enigines that have the same HP and torque as big lazy v-8 of not too long ago to last just as long. And if you are judging a car soley buy its engine, then you are judging it wrongly. I would rather have a solid car at 120K where everything worked and needed a head gasket, then a solid motor and all the switch gear falling apart and trim peices falling off. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I also hate hearing about how old Subaru's were so much better. What about the HG issues on GL-10s? What about the constant oil leaks on the 1.8 motors, etc. Have you ever replaced the timing belts in a 1.8 before? How many times have you had to re-seal the oil pump? Done all that. I never said the old subaru's were less prone to breaking. The difference is that it's all cheap to fix and I can do it myself for a few hundred bucks. When most new cars break, it's expensive to fix, and that is the problem, IMO. New subaru's are still alot easier to work on yourself than many new cars, just not quite as easy as the old ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 ANy car can blow a head gasket over 100K, and usually will if its a 4 cyl. My honda civic did it, so did my niassan, keep it long enough it will happen on an aluminum engine.. People expect these tiny enigines that have the same HP and torque as big lazy v-8 of not too long ago to last just as long. nipper Actually, the old small block V-8's from the 70's fords were lucky to get 150k on them before they needed a complete rebuild from worn bores. I consider it darn good when I take apart a subaru that's blown a HG at 200k, and can still see the original cross hatching on the cylinder walls. I'm used to always taking the EA82 engines apart for oil leaks, so what's the big deal about pulling the heads for a HG every 100k too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Actually, the old small block V-8's from the 70's fords were lucky to get 150k on them before they needed a complete rebuild from worn bores. I consider it darn good when I take apart a subaru that's blown a HG at 200k, and can still see the original cross hatching on the cylinder walls. I'm used to always taking the EA82 engines apart for oil leaks, so what's the big deal about pulling the heads for a HG every 100k too..... Could not have said it better myself! Done all that. I never said the old subaru's were less prone to breaking. The difference is that it's all cheap to fix and I can do it myself for a few hundred bucks. When most new cars break, it's expensive to fix, and that is the problem, IMO. New subaru's are still alot easier to work on yourself than many new cars, just not quite as easy as the old ones. IMO I would rather work on a 90 up legacy then an older subaru, (expect for maybe my old 76, loved that car! ). Timing belt are cheaper to have replaced on a legacy than on my brother-in-laws 93 Loyale. Most parts and such are right in line with older subarus and some even cheaper. BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirelessenabled Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 In my decades of winter driving I've often found the left lane to be smooth and hardpacked, while the right lane is rutted and loose. I've been sideways at over 100mph on unplowed snow, when conditions are right it's not unpleasant. I wouldn't try that on public roads, I'm a fairly cautious driver, but I can't really stay behind the slowest driver I encounter in a 200-mile drive. So tell us how being "sideways at over 100mph on unplowed snow" jives with "I'm a fairly cautious driver"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubPar Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 "sideways at over 100mph on unplowed snow"? Who drives 100 mph on unplowed snow?:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 "sideways at over 100mph on unplowed snow"? Who drives 100 mph on unplowed snow?:-\ Scottbaru, apparently, but that post is over three years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYeti Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Holy thread-necromancers, Batman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Holy thread-necromancers, Batman!Hmmm, I thought necromancy would be considered unholy. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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