uss_essess Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Background: Well, I bought a 1989 Subaru (durrr) GL-10 Turbo Touring Wagon for 1500 in PA, had it trailered into Newark, NJ, where I stayed for a few days (wish I hadn't), and then drove it back to Anchorage, AK. Got into Newark on the 3rd, car was delivered on the 4th, recharged the battery and caught the Pens/Devils game on the 5th, left town like a bat out of hell on the 6th, and arrived at home 5 days and 4815 miles later, on the 10th. The CEL was on intermittantly, probably about 50% of the time, but short of starting to overheat on the Ohio Turnpike, the car did GREAT. That was easily solved by turning off the AC until I got to the next Service Plaza, letting the car cool down a bit, and topping off the coolant, which had gotten a bit low. Then she was great. Did 75-90 for hours on end, where I thought I could get away with it, and drove for 17 hours a day when I could. The Problem(s): I let the car sit for a day when I got back. I hadn't started my '88 TurboWagon in over a week, and wanted to get her running, so I used her to run around town. The next day, I decided to take the '89 through the car wash to get the ALCAN off her. The laserwash did an ok job, and I was stopped at a red light on my way to meet someone for lunch, when the light turned green, I hit the gas, and nothing happened. She started idling real rough, and no accelleration at all. She would 'roll' forward, but I don't think I ever hit 2mph. Decided to kill and restart her (hell, it works for my computer), but she would just crank and not fire up. So I pushed her across 2 lanes of traffic into a parking lot, and let her sit for a few minutes. She still wouldnt start. So I figured something had gotten wet in the carwash that shouldn't have. Checked the distributor cap, but it was dry as a bone. It was a bit chilly, so I decided to just let her sit for a while, and got a ride home. Came back a couple hours later, and got her started after about 5 minutes of trying. Moved her out of the middle of the lot into an actual parking spot, and drove back home. Got a ride back later, and she came to life pretty easy. Didn't take more than 30 seconds of trying. She still ran rough, but she made it home ok. I let her sit for another day or so, then decided to try it again. She started up rough. She started for a couple seconds, then died. Did that again. Started up, and stayed on, until I gave her some gas, and then she died. Started her up again, let her sit for a minute or so til she seemed to idle correctly, and then gave her gas, and she did ok. Got 2 or 3 miles from home, stopped at a light, and it happened again. Really rough idle, almost no accelleration. So I limped into another parking lot, put her in neutral, and gave her some gas, she floundered for a second, then roared up to 2,000 rpm and acted fine. Let off the gas, tried it again, same thing. A couple seconds of hesitation, then bam. So, I was about a mile from the arena, and 2-3 miles from home, so I decided I would just keep on going and keep her above 2,000 rpm. Probably not great for the transmission, but oh well. I made it, parked her in the lot, and let her run for about 30 seconds, before she died. Wouldn't restart. So I said Fark it, did my thing, and got another ride home. Went back about 12 hours later, started her up pretty easily, and she drove home just fine. I decided to check out the CEL light, and the only code that was flashing was 21 (Coolant Temperature Sensor or Circuit). So I replaced the Coolant temp sensor. Didn't help. The CEL stayed on, and I didn't even make it around the block before she started acting up again. I decided to check the stored codes, and got 11 (Crank Angle Sensor or Circuit), 13 (Cam Position Sensor or Circuit), 21, and 23 (Air Flow Meter or Circuit). Before I go running off replacing more crap that won't solve the problem, does anyone have an idea as to what might be causing my problems? Thanks in advance for any help I can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I would check the fuel system first. Replace the fuel filter if you haven't already. The pump may be bad also. Also check the fusible links for a loose connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Usually the combination of a 11 and 13 means there's something wrong with the distributor, or its wiring harness. I've never had it in combo with the MAF stuff though. Have you checked for loose connections to the distributor or engine wiring harness. Maybe water got in those connectors??? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmiller Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 maybe even see if the ignition coil is leaking or has loose connection, My Loyale acted the same way and the coil was bad. But either way definatly check the fuel system too like Cougar said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 maybe even see if the ignition coil is leaking or has loose connection, Ignition coil leaking? You mean the spark is leaking to ground, or is there some sort of liquid inside of them that can get out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsubaru Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 My Loyale did a very similar thing - it was water in the distributor. After a good washing, it ran fine for 5 or 10 minutes after I started it up, then got steadily worse until it wouldn't start at all. I did it twice before I figured it out. The first time, it took almost 3 days of drying out before it would stay running. I believe the water caused a problem with the crank angle sensor - fogging, maybe? Now I make sure no water gets near the disty, although it could probably be resealed to keep the water out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I agree with checking the distributor for water, as well as all the connections associated with it. If you want, I could come take a look at the car this weekend and try to help, as I live in Anchorage right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 Usually the combination of a 11 and 13 means there's something wrong with the distributor, or its wiring harness. Would this count as 'something wrong'? The center mound/knob/whatever was a wee bit crispified, and scraped right off. Pic of what I assume is a "good" dist cap, from my '88 T-wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 MAN that would count for something... when was the last time that was changed? New cap and rotor, actually you may want to look at a new or used distribtor, and replace the ignitor that is in the distributor (use the one that comes with it if you get a junkie one) Check for bearing play in the shaft. Coils are two sets of wire, a primary and a secondary coil, inside a little can, filled with oil. Coils can leak voltage internally when the oil dries out (they dont last for ever). They can also leak voltage thru hairline cracks in the coil tower. What does the rotor look like ? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 It looks to me that both caps are bad. There should be a center pin connection to the rotor I think. I think there are two different types of rotors you can get for these and they are not interchangable. I would take the original with you if you get a new one, to compare with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 agree with Cougar...both of those caps are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 agree with Cougar...both of those caps are bad. Thanks guys. I had no clue what a good one looked like, I just knew that the one looked a lot worse than the other one. Sometimes I think this board needs a 'Stupid Questions From Total Farkin N00bs' forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Sometimes I think this board needs a 'Stupid Questions From Total Farkin N00bs' forum. This is it;) Replace the cap and rotor, then clear the codes. Drive it around a little, see if it does better. See if you get more codes. Report back. Also, which coolant temperature sensor did you replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Crikey! I'm amazed it ran at all like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 Replace the cap and rotor, then clear the codes. Drive it around a little, see if it does better. See if you get more codes. Report back. Ok. Took me an hour to get the damn thing in the garage this morning. Had to push it in with the '88. Replaced the cap, rotor, spark plugs, spark plug wires, and air filter. No joy. Symptoms remain the same. Goes about 3 miles, then the CEL light goes OFF and it gets funny on me. Idles really rough, drops to 500 rpm, jumps to 1000, up down, etc. Hit the gas, and it continues for 1-2 seconds, then it finally starts revving up. It is fine as long as I keep on the gas. Sitting out in the driveway, with the car in neutral, it would hit about 5000 rpm, then sound like it was choking and start bouncing around in the 4-5000 rpm range for a few seconds. Held on the gas a little longer, and sure enough, ON went the CEL and she ran up to into the red. Seems a little bass ackwards to me. Anyone have any more ideas? Other issues: Leaks oil, but nothing abnormal. Also leaks coolant, but I have not been able to figure out where it is coming from. Muffler is rusted and puffs smoke in both directions. Nice. Also took it into a curb at a 45 degree angle earlier. Now I have a bit of wobble in the front left tire. Ubernice. Also, which coolant temperature sensor did you replace. Ummm.... It was right below the thermostat. Looked like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 That's the one for the gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 Fark me. Where is the other one? Any clue on a part number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The sensor you want is the one with a two wire pigtail. Should be right under the thermostat. Sorry I don't know the part number for it. I've replaced a couple of mine with ones from the junkyard with good results. Kind of a crap shoot though :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 The sensor you want is the one with a two wire pigtail. Should be right under the thermostat. That sensor (as far as I can see) is the only one under the thermostat. There are a couple of hoses, but that is it. Am I looking in the wrong place? Just to make sure, I am looking for something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Yup, that's the one. I can't remember precisely where it it, but I think it's farther back on the intake manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 i would place my bets on moisture in the distributor i washed the motor on my loyale. the next day it would start, but die oand not start a block down the road. the cap was dry. i took the disty out and took it apart, and found moisture inside. i would try leaving the cap off overnite to dry out or spray some w-d inside the disty itslef. i come to this conclusion since the problem arose after washing the car. if you drove 5000 miles before hand i wouldnt think anything else went bad all of a sudden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Yup, that's the one. I can't remember precisely where it it, but I think it's farther back on the intake manifold.Anyone know exactly where it is? A picture would be worth 1,000(,000,000,000) words. I can't find this thing to save my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Humble Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 You're warm. Its a few inches to the rear of the car in the coolant line as they call it. The coolant line is that large cast aluminum part bolted to the intake manifold at the rear of the manifold. The thermosensor on your car doesn't have wires coming out of its self. Instead, it has a connector to which the engine wiring harness is pluged into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 You're warm. Its a few inches to the rear of the car in the coolant line as they call it. The coolant line is that large cast aluminum part bolted to the intake manifold at the rear of the manifold. The thermosensor on your car doesn't have wires coming out of its self. Instead, it has a connector to which the engine wiring harness is pluged into. THANK YOU, Mark! That is what I wanted to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss_essess Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Fixed. Replaced the ECT sensor for the ECU, and it works fine. No more CEL, and she runs fine while warm. Thanks everyone for your help. Now I need to find a new (used) muffler, get her IMed, and she should be legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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