myfinalcoffinx Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 As you may remember, I was recently involved in a collision that seriously damaged the rear of my subie. The insurance company is trying to settle the claim at $400. This is for a perfect, pristine GL brand new paint, the works. Anyway, what I would really appreciate from you guys, are copies of your bills of sale from recent sales of early 80's subies (gl's, brats, coupes, anything, preferable over $1000, but anything over $400 will help.) This is the only thing that the insurance company will accept as proof for market value. I know this is kinda personal, and I sympathize with that, however I'm getting kinda desperate, and I don't really want to be taken advantage of by the insurance company. If you feel comfortable and are willing to help, please PM or email me at kevinkrotzer@comcast.net with more info on how to get a hold of a copy of your bill of sale, and I will be truly appreciative. Thanks in advance for your help! -Kevin Krotzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 $400 sounds right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 alot depends on the accident. if the other person is at fault then the insurance company is trying to low ball you. a guy i worked with (my manager) had his old VW wrecked bad, but it was the other persons fault. he grappled with them and said he'd settle for nothing less than what he had before this person totalled his car. he wasn't looking for anything more, but wanted what he had, the accident wasn't his fault. they fixed it...and it was alot of money, considering how old the car was (80's). if the accident wasn't your fault it'll be more a much more annoying process. try ebay/autotrader, some areas will allow ebay sales to dictate taxes on used/wrecked vehicles instead of the "value" they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydfloyd44 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 You are absolutely on the right road to challenge the Insurance companies valuation of your car. Getting valuations from different parts of the country may not be favorably viewed by the insurance company since there will be different values placed on different cars in different places. It won't hurt you trying! The problem is that no matter what the condition, there is a pre-determined value that is already on paper for your car. Like I said, you can certainly challenge it and many insurance companies will listen to you. I used to run a glass shop and we sub-leased part of the huge office space as an Allstate Drive In claims office. Can't tell you how many times I saw people go out of there pissed off because they didn't get the value for their vehicles they thought they should have. Most of the time I would hear, "I just put a new engine in", "it had a $5,000 stereo system" or "I just spent $1,000 on new tires and rims", etc. Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter. Again, you are on the right road and I hope they revaluate your car, but just keep in mind that the insurance adjuster doesn't care if it is your favorite Sube or a Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 emailed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75subie Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 you could "home make" a couple reciepts to your liking:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Kevin, Buck the insurance company... $400.00 is squat. The collision shop was going to charge me $400. to repaint my Elantra bumper after a slight bump to the rear by a Jeep.... there was no physical damage, just scuffed paint. A $2.00 bottle of touch-up and a rainy night when I traded-in and it was all better! There is place on eBay where you can view auctions that have ended. I would suggest that you go there and get a sampling of past sales. I hate insurance companies... they're getting more absurd all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Check the classifieds in your local paper, check craigslist, check autotrader, kelly blue book, NADA, and so forth. Remind them what they owe you is REPLACEMENT value (less deductible unless it's the other guy's fault) not what they are trying to tell you it's worth. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailgatewagon Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 call main motors in Bozeman MT and see if they can fax you a deal showing prices of the last few they have sold. also check with Bullwacker inc IN Bozeman MT..... subys bring awsome prices here in MT, ive seen ea82s go for 4000+ and ive seen ea81s bring 2500. i personaly havnt sold any recently but try the two places ive mentioned.... they should be able to help or know who to contact... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailgatewagon Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 ps dont take a check, make them wait if the file is open longer they will be more willing to pay more to close the file. dont be in a rush for the money and you should get it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 $400 sounds right to me. You haven't seen the pictures of this car. It was perfect. There's a thread a few pages back with pictures. Is there any chance of getting a "classic car" valuation of it, or something from someone who deals with non-standard cars? This wasn't just any beat up Subaru. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I don't know if this would be of any help but; a brat on ebay recently went for $ 5500.00. Maybe you could use this in some form of your plight. Here is the Link to that auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-SUBARU-BRAT_W0QQitemZ4600997235QQcategoryZ6467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Tailgatewagon is right; if you can afford to wait, time is on your side. A short note to your state's Insurance Comissioner detailing your dissatisfaction never hurts either. ps dont take a check, make them wait if the file is open longer they will be more willing to pay more to close the file. dont be in a rush for the money and you should get it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Brats are not going to help. Only wagons will be relevant. Cars from out of state will not help either. The insurance companies claim that different markets value cars differently, i.e. a 4WD subaru in Seattle is worth less than in Spokane because it rarely snows in Seattle. (BS, I know, because Seattle's economy is more inflated than Spokane's...) Kevin, they'd try to screw anyone they could, but they're trying extra hard because you're "only" 19. You will have to either wait them out, or ***find enough mint subiewagons for which you can get values to finally prove your case.*** I would suggest that you speak with Aaron's Auto Wrecking, and ask for their Expert Opinion regarding the value of your car. I believe they sell complete running cars as well as selling parts. You would probably be best off bringing them color pictures of your car along with the $400 story, and then asking if someone could come by to look at your car in person. Their opinion as a licensed business with expert experience in Subarus might carry some weight. I would also suggest that you look into getting the car appraised by a professional in that field. It might cost you money, but you might try to add the cost of that appraisal to what you ask from the insurance company, and claim that since their appraisal was so inaccurate as to qualify as incompetent that they owe you the money it cost you to prove your car's value to them. You could also take a bunch of good color photographs with a stat list to used car dealers and ask for their opinions. Record the name and phone # of the lot as well as the person you speak to, who should be the owner if possible. Also, there's a lot of stuff on this site http://www.insurance.wa.gov/ but some of it may prove useful. mentioning that you plan to complain to the WSIC might get something happening. I am sure I'm not the only one here who would be interested to know what company you were insured with. I wouldn't like to be giving my money to any company that tries that carelessly and blatantly to screw someone over. Put an ad in Craigslist under Cars For Sale, General, and Wanted asking for info about past wagon sales. Cruise Ebay's completed listings. Put a classified ad in your paper. Have access to a fax machine? Call used car lots asking for what prices at which they've sold 81-84 wagons and have them fax you the answers. Consider telling the insurance co. that you're doing all of this, and that you're counting the hours you spend, and that you're going to add $10/hour to the claim you've filed with them. That of course is BS but it makes you sound like a customer to be reckoned with. (On that note, DO NOT let the insurance phone-dork cut you off or interrupt you: "I AM NOT THROUGH speaking and I will not tolerate being interrupted!"... ignore the subsequent apology and continue to own the conversation... mention repeatedly that it will cost them far more to pay someone to argue with you for an hour per day for three years than to just give you the fair value of your car now, that of course means that you have to call them instead of letting them call you, which means that you must have an excuse to call them each day, which highlights the importance of searching for examples of well-preserved subarus.) Good luck and MTFBWY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 look! http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/125918819.html note that that one needs repairs. http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/125582213.html get pictures of these cars if you can. how much did you pay for yours when you bought it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Thanks for your backup! I've sorta looked into the classic car appraisal aspect, however I doubt it will do anything, as the company insists that it will only accept sales of Subarus as proof of their value. My only question is, where are you going to find a Subie that was in that great of shape, much less find one that has sold recently. Anyway, one other thing I find funny is that their "estimate" of how much the car was worth was made by calling ONE (count' em, ONEEEEE) dealership in Seattle and asking how much they theoretically would pay for a 1982 Subaru GL. This is funny because I couldn't replace my car for this theoretical amount, all their number means is how much a dealership would pay for it. So I guess what I'm saying is why is alright for them to deal in hypotheticals, however I have to prove my case using bills of sale? Anyway, here's a link to my photos in case anyone cares: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=11716 Thanks, and sorry for ranting... You haven't seen the pictures of this car. It was perfect. There's a thread a few pages back with pictures. Is there any chance of getting a "classic car" valuation of it, or something from someone who deals with non-standard cars? This wasn't just any beat up Subaru. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm currently trying to contact the guy, I'm hoping he responds! Thanks for the lead! I don't know if this would be of any help but; a brat on ebay recently went for $ 5500.00. Maybe you could use this in some form of your plight. Here is the Link to that auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-SUBARU-BRAT_W0QQitemZ4600997235QQcategoryZ6467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm going to wait it out for sure. The claims dept is insisting that now that they have made their offer, I have three days to turn in my rental, I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case. True? From what I've gathered, I'm not required to return the rental until the claim is settled right? Would you recommend a letter or an email to the insurance commissioner? Tailgatewagon is right; if you can afford to wait, time is on your side. A short note to your state's Insurance Comissioner detailing your dissatisfaction never hurts either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Andy, You've been such a great help on this, and I'd like to respond to everything you had to say! (However for the sake of space, and conserving bandwidth, I'll exclude the quotes...) I'm going to insist that Brats are relevant because it is IMPOSSIBLE to find a wagon that was in as great of shape as mine, and the closest comparison would be to a Brat. And plus, the model is GL on both, one just happens to be a wagon, the other a Brat. With regards to the different markets, I've got that under control. As an Economics major, business minor, I will explain to them that I am familiar with methods of comparison between markets, and that they must accept it, whether at face value or at a deflated value. Either way, it will be better than $400. I'm "only" 19, but I'm a feisty. I'll take them as far as I have to, and be as firm as necessary. I'm very familiar with methods of depreciation, and comparison between markets, so there's no problem there, it’s mostly with my sales skills, but we'll talk about that in a few. I'm looking for as many as possible, and I'm going to talk to as many people as I have to in order to find them. One problem is that they are insisting that I can only use bills of sale as documentation of proof of purchase value, (which is funny because that's not what they based their value of the car on...) I will call Aaron's tomorrow, just to see what they have to say. I'll also look into getting it appraised by a pro. Would you recommend an internet appraisal or an "in person" one? I don't know where to go for either! I'll be examining that site tomorrow afternoon! Thanks! Not only will I say that I'm contacting the commissioner, I will actually be doing so. As far as which company it is, it is USAA. When I got into the pissing contest with the lady this morning about the value of my car, I insisted that it is worth more than that, and she told me that I have to take it up with "my carrier" which just so happens to be them, so they now have all the power, instead of just most. It's unfortunate that we had to have the same insurance provider, if we didn't I'd have someplace to turn for help in battling them, but since it's the same company, I get nothing. I'll do the craigslist bit, I'm currently in the process of contacting ebay users I'll be calling as many lots as I can, and having them fax it all over. If you (or anyone else who reads this) happen to come across anything, please don't hesitate to email me, kevinkrotzer@comcast.net or fax me any info 253-862-1376 ATTN: Kevin Krotzer. Now about the talking portion, this morning the lady called my house, my mom answered and three-wayed me in to talk to this lady. Before even saying hello, or introducing herself, she notified me that the car was a complete loss, and I disagreed calmly. She immediately got a little bit antsy, and asked why, and I told her that I have found plenty of sales that say otherwise. She got sorta angry and told me that that is what they are willing to pay, and I told her, well then I'll see you in litigation. She cut me off, and started talking, and I told her that I wasn't done talking, and insisted that she not interrupt me, at which time she interrupted me from saying "interrupt me." We sorta got in a "shouting match" (very uncivilized, I know, but really this lady wasn't human anyway.) After that I asked where she got her numbers, and she told me from a dealership. I asked how they were calculated, and she told me, which I sorta explained earlier, I told her that they weren't acceptable figures, and don't stand up legally. She said that they do, and that they won't pay more than that amount. I was literally shaking about now, mind you, I was standing immediately outside the door of my corporate tax class, and I got so angry with her interrupting and lowballing that I bellowed "NOW LISTEN HERE B**CH..." and continued talking, at which time she interrupted again, and notified me that the conversation was over, and hung up. No excuses, it was inappropriate I know, but it was tough to maintain composure when you hear them criticizing your baby like that and trying to rape you out of what is rightfully yours. So I guess what the point of that last bit was that I'm having trouble keeping calm, and decent in this whole process, so we'll see how all of this turns out tomorrow... Now after that long-winded response, my fingers are kinda tired, and I think I'm going to head off to do some studying. Thanks for all your help! -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Yo, I'm already on both of those guys... hopefully I get a response from either one, or hopefully both! When I bought my car, I paid $650 for it, but it wasn't running and had some body damage. I realize now that I got taken big time, but I was 16, and I was so excited that I had to have her. I could probably now find one just like she used to be for $150 or so, but I fixed her up, worked out all the bugs, she transformed into a beautiful car, and for that, I want compensation. look! http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/125918819.html note that that one needs repairs. http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/125582213.html get pictures of these cars if you can. how much did you pay for yours when you bought it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 did you repaint it or just fix the hatch and bumper in back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/usedcars/detail/index.html;_ylt=AnuSj1Ng_zxDHfR0Tt_cpPt6SMUF?cid=automobiles-194928515&dst=15.34&rsr=bWFrZT1TVUImbW9kZWw9JmNsX3k9MTk4MCZjaF95PTE5ODUmY2xfcHJpY2U9JmNoX3ByaWNlPSZjbF9taT0mY2hfbWk9JmNrPSZndXI9MzAwJmNzej1zZWF0dGxlLCt3YSZjZV9zbD0mdnR5cGU9YXV0b3MmbWs9U3ViYXJ1Jm1vPSZzdWJtaXQ9U2VhcmNo#image note that this is 2wd auto with more miles than yours. dented in the front too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Brand new hatch, rear and front bumper, grille, fenders, two doors, pretty much all of the panels on the outside and redid all of the upholstery on the inside as well as replacing the carpets, and many of the interior panels. A ton of mechanical work and brand new paint when I got it, and new paint up front (hood, and both fenders) just a few months ago. did you repaint it or just fix the hatch and bumper in back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 i tried sifting through all of this but see no response to who was at fault in this accident. you or the other person? details of the accident make a difference. the insurance company will always stall and have nothing to loose to sit on their rump and ignore you. if you had an attorney you'd be considered a possible liability to them and they would move much faster. know any lawyers? can you provide details of the accident? someone on here may be a lawyer or know one that can provide a simple letter to the insurance company. certified mail, all that jazz. you are best served to choose you own courses as well, trying every angle you can. whatever leads they give you would not be my highest priority. they may require some statements of value and i would persue those courses like you are now...but i also feel they are well versed in this area and can recount much of what you come up with. basically you are playing into their hand, by their rules. i'd persue other angles as well. look forward to seeing your hatch back (ha ha). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I have to disagree about the regional value differences. Since eBay came along, there is no such thing as "regional" value, it's whatever the market will bear. eBay is a very large market... full of eager buyers. A person in the NE would pay way more money than someone local to you. Soooo, whether or not the insurance company is prepared to accept it, it's fact and eBay does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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