91LegLS Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 I have a friend who was an owner of a '01 Pathfinder until it was rear-ended and totaled. We are going shopping for an Outback this weekend. He doesn't believe that the ground clearance on an Outback will be as good as his Pathfinder. The old vehicle didn't have limited slip (it was an LE with a 265hp 3.5 V6) I have a '91 LS with standard ground clearance. Can anyone give personal examples of the capability of the Outback? He climbs mountains frequently in Colorado and doesn't think the Outback can get him where he wants to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 This applies specifically to the last body style, but it's a good comparison chart: http://www.cars101.com/subaru/subaru_comparisons2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ground clearance of an 05+ Outback should be almost equal to his dearly departed Pathfinder (8.3" Nissan 8.4" Subaru). Towing capacity would be much lower, if that matters. He would be giving up approach and departure angles, and lower ratio gearing though. He'd be gaining fuel economy and handling, among other things. I'm guessing that when he went to trailheads with his Nissan, he observed other vehicles there... surely in Colorado there were Subarus parked next to the Jeeps, old Toyota trucks, and other typical trailhead vehicles one finds in the Rockies. That's the way it is in Utah anyway. Subaru wagons are everywhere, I doubt there's too many trailheads he couldn't get to in a Subie. There's plenty of threads here and at http://www.subaruoutback.org that describe getting off-pavement. But if he's made up his mind that he "needs" a truck-style SUV, or that wagons aren't cool enough, or some such nonsense... then I doubt we'll change his mind. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91LegLS Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ground clearance of an 05+ Outback should be almost equal to his dearly departed Pathfinder (8.3" Nissan 8.4" Subaru). Towing capacity would be much lower, if that matters. He would be giving up approach and departure angles, and lower ratio gearing though. He'd be gaining fuel economy and handling, among other things. I'm guessing that when he went to trailheads with his Nissan, he observed other vehicles there... surely in Colorado there were Subarus parked next to the Jeeps, old Toyota trucks, and other typical trailhead vehicles one finds in the Rockies. That's the way it is in Utah anyway. Subaru wagons are everywhere, I doubt there's too many trailheads he couldn't get to in a Subie. There's plenty of threads here and at www.subaruoutback.org that describe getting off-pavement. But if he's made up his mind that he "needs" a truck-style SUV, or that wagons aren't cool enough, or some such nonsense... then I doubt we'll change his mind. Steve I bought my LS back in October '05 and we have been on a few trips in it to save on fuel. I could cary just as much equipment as the Pathfinder and the cargo area seemed identical. I've noticed that he really enjoys driving my car and told me he originally planned to buy a Tribeca in about three years when the used ones start showing up. Because of the accident, he has told me on several occasions that the only vehicle that makes sense is a Subaru but was wondering if he was giving up ground clearance with an Outback. I've told him that the ground clearance of a OBW is virtually the same as most SUV's but because the OBW isn't as high that it appears to be lower to the ground plus the seats aren't mounted as high as they are in SUV's. Hopefully with this information and some test drives this weekend, he will see the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Cool, sounds good. I'm assuming he's shopping for new (05+) Outbacks? What other vehicles are being considered? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Just check on the approach and depart angles. The Outback might have a bit more overhang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jluther Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 I have a 97 obw and had to buy a toyota truck to get to these same mountain trailheads. My toyota makes it up all reasonable roads, we can talk specific trailheads if he wants. My subaru does not get me to all the trailheads, but is better (MPGs, comfort, a/c, etc.) for the ones that are mellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91LegLS Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 Cool, sounds good. I'm assuming he's shopping for new (05+) Outbacks? What other vehicles are being considered? Steve I think he's looking at older OBW's ('00-02) using the check from the insurance company to purchase outright and no payments. Because he can be a little rough, he doesn't want to damage something new ( he has climed 50 of Colorados 54 Fourteeners). A friend suggested an Audi All Road and I immediately told him DON'T YOU DARE unless you want to spend tons of money on a car that is pathetically not up to the job. His primary objective is fuel economy and off roadability (he was getting 18mpg on the daily commute). I can't really think of any other vehicle that offers what the OBW does and the Ford Escape, Toyota RAV4, Forrester, Honda CRV, Saturn VUE are too girly. Plus, Detroit vehicles (Ford, GM and Chrysler) aren't worth the trouble because of reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Well, ground clearance and approach / departure angles were improved in the third gen (05+) Outbacks versus the second gen (00 - 04). So the newer ones are more capable in that regard. I sacrifice the 5% of places I can't go in my Subaru but might like to that maybe another SUV or truck could go, for the better fuel economy and handling for the 95% paved road miles the car is driven. But that's my personal opinion, your friend's may vary. jluther's response indicates that there are indeed trailheads that were unreachable in his OB... but would they also be unreachable in the Pathfinder? I don't know. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skizix Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Is dude considering a Forrester? More or less the same clearance, but better approach and departure angles, for sure. Less cargo and rear seat room though. Also, if he wants to get industrious, JDM and ADM (australia) dual-range trannys are available (why, oh WHY do they not sell these here???). Scorpion springs/lift kit may help tip the balance as well. Over all, I'd say any sube will be a bit less capable off-pavement/offroad than a Pathfinder (I had an true 4WD experience in a friend's '00 or so Pathfinder that blew my mind -- 'till then I thought is was a halfass 4WD vehicle). But driving creatively (narrow track helps, for one), one can get away with quite a bit in an '00 or later Outback, or Forrester. And the upside is big -- much nicer ride, mileage, etc. If burly 4WD-road and offroad performance, efficiency, and reliability weigh heavily, as opposed to onroad performance and comfort...an older 4x4 Tacoma would provide maximum bang for buck, IMHO. BTW, the chart refered to earlier is not entirely accurate. For '00-'04 Outbacks, the clearance is slightly better for one of the H6 versions. And the mandatory, in that case, automatic tranny, is probably more useful in the rough than a non-dual-range manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 These are a little bit off-topic, but kinda relevant to the discussion at hand: http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/trailheads1.php Some good trailhead information for 14ers, including current info and historic info on when certain trailheads are suitable for which vehicles. And an interesting thread about, guess what, vehicles suitable for 14er trailheads: http://www.14ers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2741&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet82 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 If he is worried about clearance to get where he wants to go, he would probably need the gearing to backup the clearance he is worried about. I'll take gearing over clearance any day of the week. Clearance can be measured any number of ways at many places on the vehicle. A Pathfinder will have more clearance under the center of the vehicle. Clearance under the center of the vehicle is where it counts the most off-road. Clearance between the tires (under the diff) can be dealt with in any number of ways. In order to understand which vehicle is best you really need to know what he intends to do and where he intends to go. For true off-roading your really can't compare a Subaru to a Pathfinder. For the other 99% of the time when the vehicle is on the road, the Subaru will be the superior vehicle. It's all in the intended use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinjmpr Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Outbacks do have good ground clearance (especially the new ones) but ground clearance is only part of the equation when it comes to off-roading. Fender clearance, poor approach/departure angles and breakover angle, how low other parts of the body are to the ground, and lack of low gearing mean that the Outback isn't really an "off road" vehicle so much as a "rough road" vehicle. Before I owned the OBW I owned several SUVs, my last one was a 1990 Mitsubishi Montero 4 door. It had great ground clearance, skid plates, a dual-range transfer case, and was very maneuverable. It also only got 15 - 17 MPG, was difficult to park in the city, got blown around like a sailboat in crosswinds, and generally handled like a grocery cart. I actually took it 'hardcore off roading' maybe 4 or 5 times in the 7 years I owned it (while, on the other hand, I took it on long highway trips at least two dozen times.) After my last trip to Hole in the Rock in Utah, I realized I was never going to be one of these guys who can tear off a quarter panel or break an axle and laugh about it. My SUV was my daily driver, and I simply couldn't afford to roll it trying to get up over some huge rock. It was at that point that I realized I wasn't a hard-core 4 wheeler and probably never would be. The OBW should not be mistaken for a truck. If your friend really needs to get over trails that have large rocks or ruts, an OBW probably won't cut it, sad to say. Yes, you can do some amazing stuff with an Outback, but it has limits that are due to its basic car-based design. Even in Australia, where they get dual-range transfer cases, nobody is going to mistake an Outback for a Toyota Land Cruiser. I realized that what I needed was a vehicle that had AWD and enough ground clearance to allow me to get around on moderately rugged forest service roads and dirt roads without having to worry about leaving a trail of parts behind. The Outback is perfect for that role, and the AWD is a bonus on the street, especially in snow and ice. In my conventional-4wd SUV, I often couldn't use 4wd because the road surface was only intermittently slippery. About the only complaint I have regarding the Outback as a camping/exploring vehicle is that I wish it was a little bigger (about 6" longer) and had a flat load deck. But I love the AWD and the fuel economy. Bottom line is that like any other choice, this one involves tradeoffs. Only your friend knows whether the things he gives up (overall clearance, gearing, off road ability) are worth the things he gains (superior on-road handling, true AWD, good economy.) As for the Forester, the older models did appear to have better approach and departure angles, but I don't know about the newer ('03 - up) models. They seem to have an awfully long "snout." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 You can make an outback go anywhere that pathfinder could go... or further... just depends what you want it to look like when you get out with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 You can make an outback go anywhere that pathfinder could go... or further... just depends what you want it to look like when you get out with it im never loaning you my car nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 im never loaning you my car nipper You've seen pics of the impreza before.... in places it shouldn't be :-p it does need a good buffing... or entire paint job... And i believe i've thrown up some pictures of the underside too... that'll make you cringe a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 You've seen pics of the impreza before.... in places it shouldn't be :-pit does need a good buffing... or entire paint job... And i believe i've thrown up some pictures of the underside too... that'll make you cringe a bit dont even park near my car nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I'd suggest a lifted EA series myself.... Yeah, I agree, that it's the gearing and departure/approach angles that are more the issue than shear ground clearance. I've taken my VW rabbit on roads that exceeded it's ground clearance per se, but it has great departure and approach angles, and is extremely short, so I can go around lots of obstacles (I also bashed the oil pan out and broke an engine mount a few weeks ago on a rather flat dirt road, flew over a bump wrong). I've actually passed jeeps on some trailhead roads in my old '82 suby (I didn't care about it as much as their new jeep). And other roads, I've parked it and walked, and still passed jeeps, slowly creaping over rocks. And I once saw a nissan sentra at a trailhead that I'd parked because the road was getting too bad. Last weekend I took my stock mitsubishi 4x4 truck up one road that I think would have been awfully hard on the subaru (some steep sections of loose soccer ball sized rocks). I could have still made it in the subaru, but there could have been some damage, and the truck was fine. And I have to use the truck to bash through snowdrifts to a friends house sometimes, because her subaru gets too bogged (and sometimes we bring the front end loader out because my truck and the old landcruiser are bogged too....). It all depends.... But 95% of the time when I need 4wd, the subaru wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger83 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 You can make an outback go anywhere that pathfinder could go... or further... just depends what you want it to look like when you get out with it Yeah - at least once, anyway. Otherwise - what Martinjmpr said. Take it from the guy whose primary off-road transport was LPC's - Leather Personnel Carriers. I went up a log skidder road in Kingfield, ME and highly recommend one of these if you have to do that regularly. With $4.00 per gallon gas looming, for everyone else go OBW. You can buy some Australian springs for $300 that raise the Gen I and Gen II's. Check out subaruoutback.org for pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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