'87 - what's under my hood? (seeking pic)

[ca95965]

Today my car broke down a very short time after I left home, and it was a real surprise. I'm interested in finding a diagram that clearly shows what is what under there - it appears that I may have a part missing because there's a rubber housing thing but nothing being housed.

 

It located right by those two green things and those two amber-colored things that you hook together for something diagnostic. There is a single round (larger) white connector right there next to those and the rubber thing. If something IS missing it's round and I think the size of the fuel filter, if I know what that is. The pictures that came with my Sub in the manual don't make any sense to me at all, when there is text next to a picture the picture angle generally seems to be such that I can't find the part they mean - when I look under my hood to compare I see nothing similar.

 

Thanks for any help, I hope to be able to rule out a missing part as the problem (especially as the car started up and ran for a brief time!) and look into other causes.

 

Mary

[calebz]

Would help to know what fuel system and such you have.

 

 

Under the hood of my 87 is a turbo and intercooler among other things.. But that probably isn't very helpful. But here's a pic anyway.

 

This is an older pic, but it shows the area you are asking about. Is your car auto or 5 speed? 2wd or 4wd?

 

You will get the best answers if you actually give info

[Davalos]

Hey Mary:

 

Might be helpful to take a pic & post it here - I'll bet there are a ton of people who can probably spot it in a jiffy

 

I'm thinking it's probably a little rough to post a pic and then add a bunch of lines & text that might not be too confusing.

[idosubaru]

there are two completely different motors available in 1987...the EA81 and EA82....and there are turbo, non-turbo, SPFI, MPFI variants as well. if you tell us what vehicle it is we can tell which motor it has and someone can post a picture.

 

if you can post a picture we'd be able to help immediately.

[ca95965]

Would help to know what fuel system and such you have.

 

 

Under the hood of my 87 is a turbo and intercooler among other things.. But that probably isn't very helpful. But here's a pic anyway.

 

This is an older pic, but it shows the area you are asking about. Is your car auto or 5 speed? 2wd or 4wd?

 

You will get the best answers if you actually give info

 

Sorry! It's a 5-speed 4WD, and some paperwork from a shop says fuel-injected. That's all I know.

 

Great picture, and thanks for the speedy reply. I've spent the last hour trying to install a camera with no luck, writing the manufacturer next.

 

I forgot to say that I was hoping to find a picture that had text and arrows also, because I don't know the names of the parts.

 

Next time I go down to where my car is parked I'll take notes so that I won't come here with half-baked questions. Thanks again.

 

Mary

[ca95965]

Hey Mary:

 

Might be helpful to take a pic & post it here - I'll bet there are a ton of people who can probably spot it in a jiffy

 

I'm thinking it's probably a little rough to post a pic and then add a bunch of lines & text that might not be too confusing.

 

Thanks, I can't take a picture. I haven't been here for a very long time and I've forgotten some of the etiquette - is it acceptable to thank each person who replies even though I have the same thing to say to each? (No camera.) I don't like to take up the time and space but wish to thank.

 

I appreciate your reply.

 

Mary

[ca95965]

there are two completely different motors available in 1987...the EA81 and EA82....and there are turbo, non-turbo, SPFI, MPFI variants as well. if you tell us what vehicle it is we can tell which motor it has and someone can post a picture.

 

if you can post a picture we'd be able to help immediately.

 

Oh boy, I didn't know that and don't know how to tell. This manual I have came with the car, it's just that little blue one. I'll look for numbers on the engine. I am aware that some information is printed on the doors but in my car those plates are all worn down.

 

I will see what I can find out. Thanks very much for pointing out this specific aspect.

 

Mary

[calebz]

I have 4 plugs in the general area you describe (I don't have the diagnostic plugs there since my car is a turbo.. they're under the dash)

 

What I have is 2 white plugs that go to my locking center diff.. its the same setup if you have pushbutting 4wd/5 speed.

 

I have a black plug and a white plug that go nowhere. The car used to be an automatic, so that may explain it, but I don't seem to remember that they went anywhere before the conversion either.

 

http://76.183.255.137/pics/wires.jpg

 

Its not the best pic.. its from my phone.. But its huuuuuge, so beware

[Hodaka Rider]

Hmmm . . .

 

Does anyone leve close to Mary? Might be helpful to have someone close by come and look if possible.

[GeneralDisorder]

Most likely the plug in question was for something your car didn't come with. Most cars have lots of things like this - cars are generally equipped to *be* installed with things like AC, even if they don't come with it from the factory. So you will see lots of plugs that just go nowhere.

 

Can you describe exactly what happened when it broke down, and what it does now when you try to start it?

 

GD

[ca95965]

Most likely the plug in question was for something your car didn't come with. Most cars have lots of things like this - cars are generally equipped to *be* installed with things like AC, even if they don't come with it from the factory. So you will see lots of plugs that just go nowhere.

 

Can you describe exactly what happened when it broke down, and what it does now when you try to start it?

 

GD

 

When it broke down I was travelling very slowly in 2nd gear, in low 4WD, maybe 7 mph. There was a slower car in front of me so I had to brake slightly. It died when I took my foot off the gas.

 

I just went down and tried to start it again and it tries but just won't turn over. I did get it started numerous times yesterday by spraying ether in near the carb, but each time no matter what I did to the accellerator it seemed not to have any effect whatsoever, it would run a bit, I presume just long enough to burn up the starting fluid, then would die again.

 

I am out of fluid and in a remote location, so I won't be using more of that for now.

 

I finally got a great picture of the parts in question but so far haven't been able to get them in a reply. I'll try once more before submitting this.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time and guiding me with your questions.

 

Oh, I found out that I almost certainly have an EA82 engine. It's definitely not a turbo, in case I need to add that.

 

In case the image does show in this reply, I propped the white unattached connection so it was visible, but it was down under the green connector. The two pieces I have shown off to the right are flexible rubber and were sitting on top of the white connector.

 

Mary

[ca95965]

When it broke down I was travelling very slowly in 2nd gear, in low 4WD, maybe 7 mph. There was a slower car in front of me so I had to brake slightly. It died when I took my foot off the gas.

 

I just went down and tried to start it again and it tries but just won't turn over. I did get it started numerous times yesterday by spraying ether in near the carb, but each time no matter what I did to the accellerator it seemed not to have any effect whatsoever, it would run a bit, I presume just long enough to burn up the starting fluid, then would die again.

 

I am out of fluid and in a remote location, so I won't be using more of that for now.

 

I finally got a great picture of the parts in question but so far haven't been able to get them in a reply. I'll try once more before submitting this.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time and guiding me with your questions.

 

Oh, I found out that I almost certainly have an EA82 engine. It's definitely not a turbo, in case I need to add that.

 

In case the image does show in this reply, I propped the white unattached connection so it was visible, but it was down under the green connector. The two pieces I have shown off to the right are flexible rubber and were sitting on top of the white connector.

 

Mary

 

shoot, I don't know why it didn't appear attached. By the way, I love your name!

 

Mary

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks!

 

Ok - you say it starts on ether - does it sound like it wants to run and then stops or does it sound like maybe it's only running on two cylinders?

 

There's a couple options here - it sounds like either it's fuel related, or you may have broken the passenger side timing belt and it's trying to run on two cylinders.

 

Please try this: Connect the two green "test" connectors behind the drivers side strut tower, and turn the key to the "ON" posistion. Listen for the fuel pump. It will cycle every 2 seconds when it's in test mode. If you don't hear it you may need to take a look under the car and test for power at the fuel pump connector with either a multi-meter or a test light. The pump is on a shelf near the gas tank. There's only two wires in the connector - just put the tester on each one and see if you get 12v with the ignition ON, and the green guys connected.

 

Also check all the fuses. If the pump doesn't run then it could be either the fuse, the pump relay under the dash, or the pump itself.

 

If the pump runs normally, there is a black oval shaped plug in the front of the passenger side timing belt cover that you can remove to check the belt tension with your finger. Reach a finger in there and see if the belt is intact or not. If you can't feel the belt or you feel shredded belt with no tension you have found the problem. It is also possible for some of the teeth to strip off the belts and the engine to jump out of time.

 

I wish I were closer - I would come take a look at it for you

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

Oh and just so you know what engine you have - it's a 1.8 litre, EA82, and it sounds like you have a Carbureted model. 1987 was the last year for the carbs.....

 

Now that I see what you have, the fuel pump may NOT cycle with the test connectors connected. I was thinking you had a fuel injected variety. Still a good idea to check it's power.

 

The pump should have power any time the engine is being cranked. So maybe have a friend crank it while you check the pump for power...

 

GD

[ca95965]

Thanks!

 

Ok - you say it starts on ether - does it sound like it wants to run and then stops or does it sound like maybe it's only running on two cylinders?

 

There's a couple options here - it sounds like either it's fuel related, or you may have broken the passenger side timing belt and it's trying to run on two cylinders.

 

Please try this: Connect the two green "test" connectors behind the drivers side strut tower, and turn the key to the "ON" posistion. Listen for the fuel pump. It will cycle every 2 seconds when it's in test mode. If you don't hear it you may need to take a look under the car and test for power at the fuel pump connector with either a multi-meter or a test light. The pump is on a shelf near the gas tank. There's only two wires in the connector - just put the tester on each one and see if you get 12v with the ignition ON, and the green guys connected.

 

Also check all the fuses. If the pump doesn't run then it could be either the fuse, the pump relay under the dash, or the pump itself.

 

If the pump runs normally, there is a black oval shaped plug in the front of the passenger side timing belt cover that you can remove to check the belt tension with your finger. Reach a finger in there and see if the belt is intact or not. If you can't feel the belt or you feel shredded belt with no tension you have found the problem. It is also possible for some of the teeth to strip off the belts and the engine to jump out of time.

 

I wish I were closer - I would come take a look at it for you

 

GD

\

 

Wow, I'm totally excited after reading this - I actually know where the green things are, where the fuses are (and just bought some last month!) and even where the fuel pump is.

 

I also have one of those tester things but need to look for it. I'm writing first before I go look just in case you see this and can describe what it sounds like where it's running on two cylinders. There is one other thing - when the key is in the on position I do hear a sound (without the green guys hooked together) that's kind of like a hum, in case that means anything.

 

Thanks a whole lot for all these suggestions. I'll get right on it.

 

Mary

[ca95965]

\

 

GD, I tried your suggestions. The fuses were fine, and for some weird reason I had apparently connected those two green things the other night (but I didn't mess with other parts), so the noise I mentioned was the fuel pump, so it's fine too.

 

Now, the whole belt thing is confusing to me. I don't know where the passenger side timing belt cover is, and though I looked all over for something oval I just couldn't figure out where it was. My manual doesn't list either timing or belts. I am reluctant to remove anything like that unless I'm sure it's the right thing, in case whatever it is needs a gap or something to work properly and I put it back in wrong.

 

I started this quest asking about pictures. I think I need something like that more than ever now, so if anyone does know of a place where there's a diagram with identifying text that shows clearer views that my little manual does I would love to know how to find it. It seems like most of the pictures in my book are schematics identified in drawings that don't match in shape, show such closeups that I can't find the part because there's no context, or the view is not the view I see when I look under the hood. I think I must have a VERY non-mechanical brain, because it's very frustrating and confusing.

 

Maybe the belt is the answer, so I'd be grateful for any help figuring out where it is.

 

Oh, forgot to answer one of your questions - it does sound like it wants to start but just doesn't. I left a trickle charger on it yesterday and charged it well just in case my many attempts had drawn it down.

 

One other thing - I keep isopropol alcohol in the car and put some in the tank in case there was perhaps some moisture, because when it first broke down there were two backfires (but none after that, and with the ether I had been able to start it up many times, but the it only seemed to burn up the ether then die, I floored it to try to rev it but that had no effect whatsoever). I didn't know what the backfires meant, but figured it might be from moisture or something.

 

Thanks so much again.

 

Mary

[DasWaff]

If the engine ran really smoothly on starter fluid, it is less likely to be a timing belt problem. If it ran roughly then they are difinitely something to consider.

 

The timing belt covers are the big black plastic beasts that cover the front of the engine behind the fan and V (fan and alternator) belts. The cover is divided into three sections. The big pulley, crankshaft pulley, in the middle emerges through your center timing belt cover. On either side of that pulley are the two smallish rubber ovals... they just pop out. As General Disorder said you should be able to feel the belt inside. You can also take a 10mm socket or wrench and remove the outermost 4 bolts on the passenger's side, and remove the cover. Behind that you should see an unfrayed taut timing belt wrapped around a big gear, the camshaft pulley. Ditto the driver's side, outermost 4 bolts pop the cover. The two outer pieces of the timing belt cover are (relatively) easy to remove and replace. The center one requires more work.

 

Having your timing go out will make it backfire, among other things.

 

This pic shows a pulled engine with the passenger's side timing belt cover resting on top. You can clearly see the 4 bolt holes in the cover section.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showphoto.php?photo=6142&si=timing%20belt%20cover&perpage=12

 

Also in the pic you can see a tensioner pulley with a small spring attached...? One of the rubber ovals (passenger's side) is in front of the bolts that hold that pulley to the engine. Feel upward though the hole covered by the rubber oval for that timing belt.

 

The other tensioner has the same face, but is mounted differently. It is below the water pump, next to the gear with the red ring in the center. The bolts that hold it are just at the edge of the shadow in the pic. Again the rubber oval (driver's side) is over those bolts. Feel downward for that timing belt.

 

I'm sorry I do not have and couldn't find a better pic... Hope this helps.

 

The more details you can send the better! DasWaff

[eddygordouk]

\

 

GD, I tried your suggestions. The fuses were fine, and for some weird reason I had apparently connected those two green things the other night (but I didn't mess with other parts), so the noise I mentioned was the fuel pump, so it's fine too.

 

Now, the whole belt thing is confusing to me. I don't know where the passenger side timing belt cover is, and though I looked all over for something oval I just couldn't figure out where it was. My manual doesn't list either timing or belts. I am reluctant to remove anything like that unless I'm sure it's the right thing, in case whatever it is needs a gap or something to work properly and I put it back in wrong.

 

I started this quest asking about pictures. I think I need something like that more than ever now, so if anyone does know of a place where there's a diagram with identifying text that shows clearer views that my little manual does I would love to know how to find it. It seems like most of the pictures in my book are schematics identified in drawings that don't match in shape, show such closeups that I can't find the part because there's no context, or the view is not the view I see when I look under the hood. I think I must have a VERY non-mechanical brain, because it's very frustrating and confusing.

 

Maybe the belt is the answer, so I'd be grateful for any help figuring out where it is.

 

Oh, forgot to answer one of your questions - it does sound like it wants to start but just doesn't. I left a trickle charger on it yesterday and charged it well just in case my many attempts had drawn it down.

 

One other thing - I keep isopropol alcohol in the car and put some in the tank in case there was perhaps some moisture, because when it first broke down there were two backfires (but none after that, and with the ether I had been able to start it up many times, but the it only seemed to burn up the ether then die, I floored it to try to rev it but that had no effect whatsoever). I didn't know what the backfires meant, but figured it might be from moisture or something.

 

Thanks so much again.

 

Mary

 

where are you located in california? might be able to come and try to help? Im in the Sacramento area though...

[ca95965]

Ok, thanks again to all of you. After reading more of what you wrote I was able to figure out my problem.

 

I removed the "oval" on the passenger's side first, and couldn't feel any belt, but since there was so little space for my hand between the cover and the fan I wasn't sure if I didn't just feel around incorrectly. So I put the oval back on then took off the one on the driver's side. This time I definitely felt the belt and it was not at all taut. I pulled on it just a little, thinking that if it was broken it might pull out, but it didn't seem to budge so I figured it was best to leave it alone.

 

Before posting I decided to do some searching on this site. The first bunch of stuff I read had me horrified - it sounded like a very expensive proposition and definitely for professionals only. Then I read Miles Fox's instructions for replacing the belt and now it actually seems like something reasonable for me to take on myself.

 

I don't kid myself that it will be easy - just doing what I've done so far made me totally understand why mechanics cuss all the time (like how do you guys with big man hands feel around for the belt behind the fan? and I got out a 10mm but after I found what contortions would be needed to remove those cover bolts I felt sure that if got the thing off I'd have a heck of a time getting it back on, and it didn't seem worth it just to check something), but it seems like the right thing to do to try it myself.

 

I'm really not sure just how many things I intend to replace, though, and from some things I read it's almost a given that when replacing that belt that you also replace tons of other things. We'll see, I only just now found out what was wrong and I need to think about it.

 

I really can't tell all of you how much I appreciate your patience with me. It's obvious that you took a great deal of time and care to help me with this.

 

Thanks again.

 

Mary

[GeneralDisorder]

The belts are not extremely difficult to replace. I would first remove the two outside belt covers and inspect them closer. They should be accesible with a small 10mm wrench or a ratchet and shallow 10mm socket. It can sometimes be hard to feel the belt through the inspection holes, as the belt is above the hole, and you have to use a good amount of finger to feel it. Even if the belt is still on, it's still a good idea to remove the cover and see if any of the teeth have stripped off the belt. That happens sometimes.

 

GD

[daeron]

Must agree with GD on this one. The timing belts were what brought me my free subaru. Timing belts on a Geo also changed me from my dad's helper, into my own mechanic a loong time ago.

 

Tools, Motivation, and Knowledge are all it takes to work on these cars. It sounds like you have an acceptable sum of the first two, and NO one has enough Knowledge.. or else they would ever read a forum like this. Alot of people here know virtually EVERYTHING there is to know about these cars, but everyone gets stumped SOMEtimes.. so basically, this forum is all the knowledge you should need.. if you have patience. The timing belts are a GREAT first job to get into, because it is NOT "beyond" anyone. It is easy to do. It is easy to make a mistake on, but it is easy to figure out mistakes, too. most "changed my T-belts, now it won't run" threads die out in about 8 or 9 posts, problem solved. Once you get done with the job, you won't believe how you feel about yourself.

 

These cars sometimes seem to me, to be made out of lego. They are _that_ easy to work on, compared to many other car manufacturers I have seen. Some are better than others, but this soob i have is the easiest, most well engineered vehicle I have ever seen, and I have seen a wide variety...

 

Try it, You'll like it!!!

[DasWaff]

(like how do you guys with big man hands feel around for the belt behind the fan?

 

LOL... most of us have left a little skin behind at one time or another...DW

 

[ca95965]

The belts are not extremely difficult to replace. I would first remove the two outside belt covers and inspect them closer. They should be accesible with a small 10mm wrench or a ratchet and shallow 10mm socket. It can sometimes be hard to feel the belt through the inspection holes, as the belt is above the hole, and you have to use a good amount of finger to feel it. Even if the belt is still on, it's still a good idea to remove the cover and see if any of the teeth have stripped off the belt. That happens sometimes.

 

GD

 

Well, I'm delighted that no one shrieked when I said I was going to take i on myself. That gives me great hope.

 

Mary

[GeneralDisorder]

Well, I'm delighted that no one shrieked when I said I was going to take i on myself. That gives me great hope.

 

Mary

 

Any help you need is right here on the board. Feel free to PM me or contact me on MSN messenger if you use it. Once you have completed a timing belt job, I'm sure you will feel able to do almost anything to your soob.

 

GD