ecky Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Just went to the repair shop, and asked about there being water mixed with oil in the filler neck, and the tubes comming off the valve covers. The weird thing is that there is no water on the dip-stick. The guy said that it was condensation, and that I should add about 1/2 quart of automatic tranny fluid in it for about 10-15 miles, then change the oil. He stated that it would flush out the water. The question I have is will this work, and wouldn't it harm my engine? Should I take his advice, or just drain and fill with new oil? ~Thanks, James~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 never heard that one before. personally i never put anything in my engine that isn't supposed to be in it. i would just go with a fresh oil change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 up in the yukon or alaska when the temp gets to extremely low temps...in the 60's VW recomennded 100% ATF as the motor lubrication of choice as stated in owners manual ..the only way to be able to start the vehicle safely in 50 below weather...but that was then... Just went to the repair shop, and asked about there being water mixed with oil in the filler neck, and the tubes comming off the valve covers. The weird thing is that there is no water on the dip-stick. The guy said that it was condensation, and that I should add about 1/2 quart of automatic tranny fluid in it for about 10-15 miles, then change the oil. He stated that it would flush out the water. The question I have is will this work, and wouldn't it harm my engine? Should I take his advice, or just drain and fill with new oil? ~Thanks, James~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Common practice to add a little ATF to engine oil (usually for its detergent properties). May not be the best thing to do for an engine, but will not kill it. Hadn't heard about using it relative to condensation, but probably, again, is suggested for its detergent action rather than for moisture removal per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldDiggerRoo Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Don't know about the condensation bit, but I've always been told and have added a little ATF to quiet noisy lifters, helps with colapsed ones. Has never hurt anything I've put it in (mainly small and big block chryslers). I don't think it would hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 done it, seen it done plenty of times. putting only oil in the engine is a good philosophy but if there are issues that a high level detergent may alleviate without tearing the heads or block apart it can be ideal for some situations/people. ATF, MMO, seafoam...do a search on seafoam and or ticking, tick..you'll find lots of people that have tried it. i wouldn't do it for the water condensation myself though. whatever the ATF gets too, the oil and regular oil changes should flush out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecky Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 I guess I'll give it a try, Thanx to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I've done it for short runs - ATF has just about an a$$load of detergents in it - it's more or less the same thing as MMO, just cheaper. Works great to run full ATF in a manual trans for 100 miles or so - cleans up the varnish on the syncro's real nice. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheaT_BeeR_MaN Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 im pretty sure atf finished my ea82 off. when we took it apart there was a part of the oil pump gasket gone. we were thinking the gasket was messed up by it then was sucked in so then there was no oil running properly thru the engine. anyways id just put seafoam in it. it will get rid of water and clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Its comon practice, but you dont drive the car like this, and you change the oil immediatly. ATF acts as a flush to get the gunk out. Its a very mild flush as compared to the stuff you by in an autoprts store that can kill your engine. Seafoam will do the same thing. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 A half a quart isn't going to hurt it. I have heard of people using 100% and just let the engine idle for 10 minutes at operating temp to clean it out. Kerosene too. I have done the kerosene before with good results. Added a quart to the oil, idled engine for 15 minutes at operating temp, and drained. I suggest you change the oil and take it for a drive. A long drive. And change the PCV. The condensation will boil off after the oil has reached the running temp and held there for at least 30 minutes. Do you drive short distances only? I run atf in my motorcyle tranny, it's a two stroke so the tranny oil is seperate from the engine oil. At 100% it really smoothed it out, but also leaks out like crazy! It's thinner. I need to try the 100% atf in the manual trans trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 the kerosene trick has been around for decades, good point frank. a handful of people have told me to "clean my engines" by running kerosene in them for a few minutes. i'll pass on that one, but they swear by it. i don't think engines today are like engines from 20/30 years ago but who knows, i'm not an engine expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I agree Gary, I think it worked so well in the older engines because of the older oil, less detergents, poor quality and standards, etc. That left a ton of deposits! All the hydrocarbons getting past the rings didn't help either, those older engines were designed to leak a bit I think. I also believe that the older design gaskets were better suited as well, cork and paper mostly. Newer rubber variants don't like chemicals that they were'nt designed for. I wouldn't put kerosene or atf in a 2006 dohc, v-tec, plastic manifold havin', 0w30 requirin', etc, etc, engine but a 20 year old subaru that's been mis-treated with a ton of miles on it...... it should pull through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 sometimes it becomes very difficult to know what actually works, and GD may have a point there with useing ATF in the tranny...I just drove about 2000 mi with 100% ATF in my tranny, then drained the oil(very blackish) and refilled with 50% ATF and the rest with wal-mart synthetic 10/30... now I can down shift into 2nd smoothly from 35mph ...this was impossible before to do, even going around a slow corner was a fight to get it into 2nd.... also I had no luck with expensive synthetic tranny oils such as redline or amsoil... I've done it for short runs - ATF has just about an a$$load of detergents in it - it's more or less the same thing as MMO, just cheaper. Works great to run full ATF in a manual trans for 100 miles or so - cleans up the varnish on the syncro's real nice. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 dad says it kill the oil pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I can't see how the oil pump, or any other engine internal part could be damaged by it, unless you run 100% ATF and run the car down the interstate at 80 mph! The automatic tranny has an oil pump, it has valves, and bearings, etc. It also has a lot of heat to contend with. The only thing the tranny doesn't deal with is the unburned hydrocarbons(gas) in the oil that gets past the rings. If you use no more than a quart of ATF in your oil it will be fine. I've always thought of ATF as being a high detergent hydraulic fluid. That's what it is really. Just with more detergents, and friction modifiers. I've used a quart, sometimes two in diesel vehicles added to the diesel to clean the injectors, it worked great. I'm going to try it in my 82 fords' tranny. It needs it, and besides, I have a spare tranny:rolleyes: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I can't see how the oil pump, or any other engine internal part could be damaged by it, unless you run 100% ATF and run the car down the interstate at 80 mph! The automatic tranny has an oil pump, it has valves, and bearings, etc. It also has a lot of heat to contend with. The only thing the tranny doesn't deal with is the unburned hydrocarbons(gas) in the oil that gets past the rings. If you use no more than a quart of ATF in your oil it will be fine. I've always thought of ATF as being a high detergent hydraulic fluid. Excpet that hydraulic fluid isnt used as a cushion in the bearings like engine oil is. Yes the tranny fluid sees much higher temperitures when the clutches engage, but those are spot temps for a few milliseconds. ATF fluid soes not have to cushion any high impact parts like connecting rod bearings or camshaft journals. ATF fluid can not handle that kind of constant hammering, unless there are special circumstances (like fairbanks in winter). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The only thing the tranny doesn't deal with is the unburned hydrocarbons(gas) in the oil that gets past the rings. that is it.. the atf act with dirt to make crystals that can scratch the surfaces, but the more risky is the oil pump becuase the way it presurises oil, atf does not dissolve dirt as the engine oil detergents do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 A quart, or less, isn't going to have catastrophic results. It isn't much more than adding any additive into the oil like MMO, Seafoam, Valvemedic, etc. None of them have the ability to do the job of motor oil. That's why you don't replace the oil with it, you ADD it into the oil. You still have 75% or more of the oil capacity in the form of motor oil. Besides, any additive like that that has high detergents, and you do expect it to clean it out, you should drain it after a few hundred miles anyway, just to get all that junk that got cleaned out of there from circulationg around your engine. If your engine isn't brand spankin' new, or has a ton of deposits in it from years of neglect, I can't see the point in worrying about your oil all that much or what not to add to it. The damage or wear has been done a LONG time ago and no matter what kind or brand of oil you put in there, or don't.....it's still worn. I have personally drove a subaru EA82 with 0 oil pressure for 70 miles thinking the gauge was wrong, not the oil pump. And it survived. New oil pump, new oil and filter, and not a knock, whine, rattle tick, or peep out of the engine for another 30,000+ miles. If it can handle that, I have no fear of a little ATF. Cheap oil, and cheap filters (to a point) for me unless the engine is perfect. Oil pumps fail with just oil going thru them, it's obviously very common with Subarus. Seal failure is just as common. I'd bet that the accumulation of deposits and hydrocarbons in the oil is more corrosive and abbrasive than atf, or other additives. But anyway, I think we're getting off topic a bit here. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecky Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Well, I did try it. I put about 1/2 a quart in and ran it at about 45-55 MPH for ~8 miles. It did seam to be smoother, and quieter, but that might just be me. I drained and filled, and so far so good. I think it feels better, but it always does after an oil change. Again thanks to all, and I think I have atleast learned a little about ATF. ~James~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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