nedro Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Older Subarus were 4-wheel drive. New ones are not! At least my 05 outback is not. Does All Wheel Drive qualify as 4-Wheel Drive when road conditions state "4-wheel drive w/ snow tires or chains required"? Simple but illusive question. Anyone know for sure? Any LEOs out there with the real scoop? BTW I'm mostly concerned with states in the Rockies and West of them. But welcome info from anywhere on the continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Older Subarus were 4-wheel drive. New ones are not! plenty of older soobs have both manual and automatic FWD transmissions. and some had AWD - or FT4WD. there is a BUTT LOAD of information on the subaru all wheel drive, from subaru and their Endwrench website. i'd read up on this and also search this forum. this topic has been gone over many times. the newer EJ manual trans don't have center differential locks like the old school EA manual subaru's. for automatic trans you can add a duty C switch to lock your rear transfer clutches on an automatic (i've done it to mine). an excellent modification for offroad and snow/ice conditions. but you need to understand how it works and when NOT to use it to reduce the risks to your transmission. AWD is good for 4WD conditions. the manuals will have a center diff that isn't locked and the auto's will have a TCU that controls slip. slippage starts to occur and then it locks up. i don't like that for snow/ice/mud...gets the ruts started too quickly. i like being able to control it myself which is why i use the switch, makes for awesome AWD control in offroad, snow, mud, etc. i'd rather not wait until slip starts to gain traction, so screw the TCU in bad weather and offroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedro Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 But do you know the answer to the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Subaru's AWD can handle deep snow, you end up being a snowplow if its too deep but should manage/ has managed. Ill try to get some pics.... Always bring a shovel just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger83 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Older Subarus were 4-wheel drive. New ones are not! At least my 05 outback is not. Does All Wheel Drive qualify as 4-Wheel Drive when road conditions state "4-wheel drive w/ snow tires or chains required"? Is a Camel a Mammel? It's not that complicated - if you have four wheels, and they are driven, you have four wheel drive. There are several AWD systems used on Subarus but if you have a turbocharged or H6 model, you also have "VTD," and if you have the VDC model you have VDC, Subaru's all-wheel electronic stability option. I mention VTD because it can, in fact, lock the center differential. See the [translated] article at: http://210.101.116.115/fisita/pdf/G347.pdf This doesn't always put you in the clear. At: http://www.bigbearmountainresorts.com/bearmtn/livedata/wx.html for example, they list three road conditions: During winter months, Caltrans monitors highway conditions and imposes chain restrictions, which are enforced by the California Highway Patrol. Chain terminology's are as follows: R-1 -Autos with snow tires or 4WD and snow tires OK. R-2 - Chains required on all vehicles with the exception of those with 4WD and snow tires on all four wheels. R-3 - Chains required on all vehicles, no exceptions. Whereas in CO, restrictions are listed as: Chains, snow tires or 4WD all vehicles. Chains all commercial vehicles, including buses, vans 16+ capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 The answer to the question is that all (at least) western states recognize Subarus as qualifying for severe condition driving. If your state says chains or 4WD required, your Subaru is OK. They may however, still require that you have winter or snow rated tires to qualify. Call (or look on-line) the CHP or CalTrans to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Older Subarus were 4-wheel drive. New ones are not! At least my 05 outback is not.Does All Wheel Drive qualify as 4-Wheel Drive when road conditions state "4-wheel drive w/ snow tires or chains required"? Simple but illusive question. Anyone know for sure? Any LEOs out there with the real scoop? BTW I'm mostly concerned with states in the Rockies and West of them. But welcome info from anywhere on the continent. Techinically older subarus were part time 4wd (god i miss that second little stick). New subarus are fulltime AWD, which is the same thing as 4wd. There are many many vehicals Read non trucks and truck wannabes) on the road with all sorts of AWD systems. Subaru is the best, second only to audi. Some of them arent worth the extra cost. I've hit checkpoints, and all you usually have to do is tell them its a subaru and they let you on your way. If you live in an area where this is a constant threat, then i would suggest 4 winter tires in addition. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 But do you know the answer to the question? yes and yes. i don't know why you would think an AWD subaru isn't considered 4wd. if it's just for the semantics of the local regulations then okay, you're fine. if it's for maximum traction you're falling far short of your vehicles capabilities by only concerning yourself with those regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedro Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 yes and yes. i don't know why you would think an AWD subaru isn't considered 4wd. if it's just for the semantics of the local regulations then okay, you're fine. if it's for maximum traction you're falling far short of your vehicles capabilities by only concerning yourself with those regulations. My question is stricktly for legal purposses only. Nothing to do with traction. But I thank you very much for the link and possible traction improvement ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 your state Motor Vehicle Administration or Department of Transportation...whatever they call it in your state would elaborate. if it's for legal purposes, that's the "horses mouth" so to speak. enjoy the white stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photo2001 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Didja ever find yourself waiting for that first snow just to put your Subie through it's paces? Or drivin' in a storm when most cars are parked on the shoulder? Gotta love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet82 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Both the old Subies and the new Subies are 4WD. I think the new ones have better snow traction than the old ones with the D/R transmission. The only things the old ones do better is climb steep stuff, short of that the new 4WD (AWD) is way better in the traction department. Yes they classify as 4WD because they are 4WD. No one can argue how many wheels are driven on the new Subies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Does All Wheel Drive qualify as 4-Wheel Drive when road conditions state "4-wheel drive w/ snow tires or chains required"? Yes. ... just be on alert, I've had some highway workers turn my car away saying I need chains, and I had to point out that it was 4WD/AWD for them to let me through... so depending on the region the workers may or may not be familiar with Subaru 4wd... I was going over the pass from California to Oregon, I think they don't see a lot of 4WD/AWD cars up there, only trucks, and that's why I was initially turned away... in california I've never seen R-3 conditions (and I lived in the Sierra's), either you are 4wd/AWD and carry chains (R-2), or the road is closed... btw, NEVER use chains on just one set of wheels on your AWD subaru... if you're going to put chains on it for some reaosn (I can't image why you'd need them on a regular snow-covered paved road) put them on all 4 wheels... --Spiffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I think they don't see a lot of 4WD/AWD cars up there, only trucks, and that's why I was initially turned away... Yeah, I get that sometimes -- usually from people who wonder how in the world I got my car to where it is, at the top of some snow covered driveway or something... "Is that four wheel drive?" yes, and it's even got low range. I think the new ones have better snow traction than the old ones with the D/R transmission. The only things the old ones do better is climb steep stuff, short of that the new 4WD (AWD) is way better in the traction department. I sort of agree, however the lack of low range is a serious problemin some circumstances I think. My dad's new outback wagon will stall the engine in deep snow (over the bumper) before it loses traction -- whereas the old landrover with roughly the same size four cylinder engine as the outback has plenty of power to keep crawling -- though it seems to lose traction easier. Lucky people down south who still get low range in the Outbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon38iowa Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Yeah, I get that sometimes -- usually from people who wonder how in the world I got my car to where it is, at the top of some snow covered driveway or something... "Is that four wheel drive?" yes, and it's even got low range. I sort of agree, however the lack of low range is a serious problemin some circumstances I think. My dad's new outback wagon will stall the engine in deep snow (over the bumper) before it loses traction -- whereas the old landrover with roughly the same size four cylinder engine as the outback has plenty of power to keep crawling -- though it seems to lose traction easier. Lucky people down south who still get low range in the Outbacks. IF a person wants low range, is it possible to simply put the car in first gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The answer to the question is that all (at least) western states recognize Subarus as qualifying for severe condition driving. If your state says chains or 4WD required, your Subaru is OK. They may however, still require that you have winter or snow rated tires to qualify. Call (or look on-line) the CHP or CalTrans to confirm. What's funny is that I never used chains in Montana and I can't think of anyone who did. Reserve street in Missoula would be sheer ice all the way to school some mornings. Now I'm in California and everyone is all like "oh you need chains to get to the mountains blah blah blah." btw, NEVER use chains on just one set of wheels on your AWD subaru... if you're going to put chains on it for some reaosn (I can't image why you'd need them on a regular snow-covered paved road) put them on all 4 wheels... --Spiffy Where did that come from? The owner's manual says to only put chains on the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboone1970 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 In Oregon Subaru's are good to go as far as ODOT and the Law is concerned. I have been through many CalTrans and CHP checkpoints for traction devices and they always wave me through(I do have studded tires) so I assume that it's not an issue in Ca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Yeah, I get that sometimes -- usually from people who wonder how in the world I got my car to where it is, at the top of some snow covered driveway or something... "Is that four wheel drive?" yes, and it's even got low range. I sort of agree, however the lack of low range is a serious problemin some circumstances I think. My dad's new outback wagon will stall the engine in deep snow (over the bumper) before it loses traction -- whereas the old landrover with roughly the same size four cylinder engine as the outback has plenty of power to keep crawling -- though it seems to lose traction easier. Lucky people down south who still get low range in the Outbacks. The landrover is also higher. Find some snow (not a drift) that is over the Rovers cront bumber (and 1/2 way up the grill to be a fair test) and we will talk. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 IF a person wants low range, is it possible to simply put the car in first gear? The bonous of putting it in low with the automatic is that you lock in the AWD at a 50/50 split. Low range is nice to have, but the torque converter makes up for it, considering subaurs low range isnt all that low. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker1100r Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Techinically older subarus were part time 4wd (god i miss that second little stick). New subarus are fulltime AWD, which is the same thing as 4wd. There are many many vehicals Read non trucks and truck wannabes) on the road with all sorts of AWD systems. Subaru is the best, second only to audi. Some of them arent worth the extra cost. I've hit checkpoints, and all you usually have to do is tell them its a subaru and they let you on your way. If you live in an area where this is a constant threat, then i would suggest 4 winter tires in addition. nipper I usually run winter tires on all 4 wheels of my 2000 Impreza, which seems to satisfy the requirements of each state I have driven it in the winter. My car only has 4 wheels, so if it is all-wheel-drive, it also must be 4-wheel drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Both the old Subies and the new Subies are 4WD. I think the new ones have better snow traction than the old ones with the D/R transmission. The only things the old ones do better is climb steep stuff, short of that the new 4WD (AWD) is way better in the traction department. Yes they classify as 4WD because they are 4WD. No one can argue how many wheels are driven on the new Subies. I disagree, I drive the '86 4WD and leave the Baja AWD at home during severe conditions, and with good reason, between the ABS brakes and the touchy first gear, it's dicey in tough conditions compared to the low geared, D/R BRAT which has MUCH more control on corners AND CLIMBING ability... it's steady and true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 The bonous of putting it in low with the automatic is that you lock in the AWD at a 50/50 split. Low range is nice to have, but the torque converter makes up for it, considering subaurs low range isnt all that low. nipper It's probably different in an automatic, but there is a definite difference in 1st gear hi and first gear low in a manual. Since I will never own another automatic (or honda either, probably), it's sort of moot point for me whether it's equivalent to having low range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 The landrover is also higher. Find some snow (not a drift) that is over the Rovers cront bumber (and 1/2 way up the grill to be a fair test) and we will talk. nipper Ah, for conditions like that, we have on old bulldozer with studded tracks. It will happily go through 3 foot of packed snow and ice. On the other hand, top speed is 5mph, and handling isn't so great at such "high speeds". Subaru wins hands down above 5mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 It's probably different in an automatic, but there is a definite difference in 1st gear hi and first gear low in a manual. Since I will never own another automatic (or honda either, probably), it's sort of moot point for me whether it's equivalent to having low range. oh i agree, but due to a car accident and the subsequential surgeries, i cant operate a clutch anymore. i am just hoping i can ride a motorcycle again... And the automatics have gotten so effeicent in a $WD manuals are now just a matter of personal taste. now a TRUE d/r case (like a 4:1 reduction and an auto its unstopable (aka jeep) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 oh i agree, but due to a car accident and the subsequential surgeries, i cant operate a clutch anymore. i am just hoping i can ride a motorcycle again... And the automatics have gotten so effeicent in a $WD manuals are now just a matter of personal taste. now a TRUE d/r case (like a 4:1 reduction and an auto its unstopable (aka jeep) nipper Ah, I know several people who have had to switch from manuals to automatics for that reason. It's the tranny constantly changing gears itself and not letting me control it that bugs me on twisty mountain roads -- and the lack of effective engine braking. To be honest, the new automatic subaru's are less annoying than the the honda or my friend's new ford exploder (which does have a true transfer case and low range, but still sucks for some reason). But I'll keep driving the manuals as long as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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