zyewdall Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 So.... I go to put a new front passenger axle in the '89 GL today, because the DOJ is shot (rubber is still good, but something's loose inside -- it slides in and out like the CV does... which the DOJ is not supposed to do). Anyway, I completely goof up getting the roll pin out to remove the axle from the transmission shaft... Can't pound it out either direction -- moves a little bit, then just stops. Tried pounding it out with a big nail (like I always do, though it's not a great idea), and the nail gets stuck in there and breaks off. WTF. I think I made some sort of wedge shaped thing with the nail expanding the roll pin to completely wedge it in there. :banghead::banghead: Tomorrow, I go to the hardware store to buy some more titanium drill bits (is that roll pin tempered steel? -- because drill bits don't seeem to even affect it), and some disks for the angle grinder. If I have to, I'll grind the two sides completely off the axle so I can slide it off the stub...... Sheeeeeeeesh. So much for an hour job to swap the axle..... Yes, it did occur to me too to dissasemble the CV joint on both the old and new axles and just use the old CV outer case thats stuck on the transmission stub. I hate assembling CV joints under cars though... that's what I had to do on my VW rabbit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 use a 3/16 drift punch . its the only way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I hate assembling CV joints under cars though... that's what I had to do on my VW rabbit... HAH, thats interesting timing. I was talking about my recent discovery of a DOJ failure on my car, and the discovery that I CAN disassemble and re assemble the thing.. and he told me the exact same thing when I said I didn't know you could take them apart and service them. Old VWs, you had to. Nice to have one of the common problems, that everyone else is having at the same time, for once. I normally have bizarre, strange problems I can't figure out, strange problems that are easy to figure out but require finesse, or absurdly simple problems that I just fix. Never the axle failure or bearing job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelicGL Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Robertson screwdriver, if it has a nice thick shaft and a squarely machined shoulder at the tip to load on the roll pin and thus prevent the wedging effect. You probably have one laying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom63050 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Robertson screwdriver, if it has a nice thick shaft and a squarely machined shoulder at the tip to load on the roll pin and thus prevent the wedging effect. You probably have one laying around. Apparently roll pins don't like wedgies any more than we do. I had trouble getting a used roll pin back in. Didn't want to drive all the way to the Sube dealer so I went to the hardware store instead. Took the roll pin along for sizing. Bought some long screws and Nylock nuts, just slightly smaller diameter than the roll pin. Went in fine, no problems a couple years later. Sorry if this is dorky but it worked. I've got two or three in the various axles now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 So.... I go to put a new front passenger axle in the '89 GL today, because the DOJ is shot (rubber is still good, but something's loose inside -- it slides in and out like the CV does... which the DOJ is not supposed to do). This statement has been bothering me. Both types joints in our axles are CV's. They are two specific types of CV's (of which there are at least 3) The inner joint of our CV assemblies is the Double Offset Joint (DOJ) . It is specifically made to provide flexible capability in the longitudinal direction. It allows fro the axle to slide up into the joint as the suspension compresses and vice/versa when shock is extended. The outboard end of the axle is a bell joint type(BJ). It features a large angle of operation. However it is NOT supposed to have longitudinal (in /out) play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom63050 Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Ooh, good catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 use a 3/16 drift punch . its the only way Yeah, propper tools FTW! Screw drivers, nailes and other gadgets just make the job harder and take 10x longer. Get a punch from harbor frieght for like $4 and be done with it. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Tomorrow, I go to the hardware store to buy some more titanium drill bits (is that roll pin tempered steel? -- because drill bits don't seeem to even affect it),. It is hardened spring steel. Good for making dull drill bits. The only thing I am aware of that can drill that is carbide. Specialty industrial bits that can drill bearing races. But they won't be happy drilling a roll pin due to the slit down the side - it will probably catch the edge & shatter the bit. Maybe if you can drill the busted off nail out, the proper drift will then move the pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Rotate the axle so you pound on the side that doesnt have the broken nail in it. Drive it out the other direction with the correct tool. Enough lubrication and force should work. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 This statement has been bothering me. Both types joints in our axles are CV's. They are two specific types of CV's (of which there are at least 3) The inner joint of our CV assemblies is the Double Offset Joint (DOJ) . It is specifically made to provide flexible capability in the longitudinal direction. It allows fro the axle to slide up into the joint as the suspension compresses and vice/versa when shock is extended. The outboard end of the axle is a bell joint type(BJ). It features a large angle of operation. However it is NOT supposed to have longitudinal (in /out) play. Ah interesting.... I had my terminology all wrong. Anyhow, it was the outer joint that slides in and out, not like it's supposed to... When I finally got the axle out, it fell apart completely. I had to grind one side of the axle all the way down to the transmission stub, then the roll pin finally seccumbed to being pounded out from the other side. You were all right about the various drill bits.... anything hard enough to dril it shattered.... But guess what.... the new axle I bought is a 25 spline axle!!!!! Not the 23 that my car takes. That's the third time that's happened to me on this car... what's wrong with these parts places not knowing the difference between turbo and non-turbo cars. I'm returning it, and getting a new one from the subaru dealer instead. Hey, while I'm at it, maybe I'll by a little bolt to go in there instead of the roll-pin next time And a proper drift punch for when I have to take the other side apart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 Suceess :banana: New axle (well, rebuilt, but from the subaru dealer) is in there, all back together, and I took it for a spin. Sounds better than it did before, and none of the transmission shaking vibration that the bad joint was causing. Yipppie. Only took three days.... Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86ruguy Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Suceess :banana: New axle (well, rebuilt, but from the subaru dealer) is in there, all back together, and I took it for a spin. Sounds better than it did before, and none of the transmission shaking vibration that the bad joint was causing. Yipppie. Only took three days.... Z Congradulations......Glad to see it all worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I got my roll pin a little stuck once when I was in a hurry... didn't take the time to notice I was pounding it out backwards... then I took a couple minutes to check the size of the holes... stuck my punch in the small hole and just hit it REALLY hard until it came out... btw, I had the same problem with Napa giving me a non-turbo axle for my turbo wagon... turned out that it was in the wrong box, and they didn't have another correct part so I had to go somewhere else... now I'll always check the spline count since a 25-spline axle can fit on a 23-spline hub and you can strip the splines if you don't check first... --Spiffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortbus Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Hate to bring up an older thread but I'm stick in the same situation right now. I messed up and grabbed the smaller punch and got it completely stuck. I broke everything smaller trying to pop it back out so I think that idea is out. I've ground the axles down with the angle grinder about as much as I feel safe doing so without getting into the stubs and still no luck. Anybody have any ideas about how I can get this thing out? I'm at my wits end with this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 How far did the small punch go down inside the pin. If it's just stuck a few millimeters, You could get the right size punch, and hammer the heck out of the pin from the other side until it comes out of the hole a bit. Grind off what comes out, and hopefully you can get enough of it ground off to release the small punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortbus Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I think it's beyond that now. It wasn't that far in at first but after I snapped everything else I had trying that method I got frustrated and tried pounding it through which seems to have pretty much fused the three pieces together permanently. Bad thing is now I can't even get the thing out of the garage because the axle that is (halfway) on there right now has bunged up threads. I got it most of the way in before realizing that there was no way to thread the castle nut on. Today's project was supposed to be changing that out with a good one, now I'm completely stuck. I have no idea what to do. Sad as I am to say it I think the Brat is history once I figure out a way to get it rolling again; this type of BS just isn't fun anymore . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86ruguy Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Dude, don't give up on it just because of a friggin roll pin. I let my Ea82 wagon go because of stupid reasons and am still P/Oed at myself. Somehow, some way you will overcome this seemingly tragic situation and be Happy as Heck that it's over. Chin up Lil' Buddy (LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 want a good piece of advice when it comes to those roll pins? Go to a local shop and ask them when the Mac Tools truck comes in. When it does, spend $15 and get the special Subaru axle roll pin tool (I forget the number off the top of my head). Its about 10"-12" long, is knurled at one end for easy grip and the other end has the correct tip for Subaru roll pins. I actually have 2 because of how nice they work. I was kind of skeptical about getting one but I bought it and will never turn back. I see it as this. Even though it was $15, it saves me headaches of trying to get it out with other tools, breaking off roll pins and so on. I also found that if the roll pin was boogered up previously, it takes a bit more pounding but it'll make it come out. Also, its hardened steel so the end doesn't get messed up from having to "gently" remove those stubborn pins:grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortbus Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Dude, don't give up on it just because of a friggin roll pin. I let my Ea82 wagon go because of stupid reasons and am still P/Oed at myself. Somehow, some way you will overcome this seemingly tragic situation and be Happy as Heck that it's over. Chin up Lil' Buddy (LOL) It's more than just the pin, it just seems like anytime I find the time to do some work on it it winds up not being an enjoyable experience. Either something will go wrong as it did yesterday or I'll just find myself wishing I was out doing something else. I love driving the little thing but it's been garage bound for close to a year because I just can't find the time or desire to fix the few little issues it has. If anyone has any other suggestions I'm open, I pounded & ground it some more last night and made no progress, it just won't budge. I'm about ready to cut or disassemble the axle shaft so I can put a wheel on and let it go to someone with the time and energy to finish the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Grab your 3/16 drift punch. And rotate the axle to the unfubared side, and pound the absolute hell out of it. It will come out, it will just take a bit off effort. I had the opposite problem last year, I used a 1/4 punch, and got it stuck in the stub of a legacy. And I couldn't get it to rotate enough tto get at the other end real good. I ended up borrowing the subaru tool from a tech buddy. And it came out eventually. I'd carefully consider selling the Brat. They are getting hard to come by on this side of the country, and IMHO they are well worth the effort they take to keep them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezapar Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 use a 3/16 drift punch . its the only way What Miles said. The right tool for the job. Buy two in case you lose one. Home Depot should carry them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85glsw Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Finally something I can answer. Good tools are nice, but an 8.8 strength bolt of the right size and preferably long enough will work just fine. Remember, whatever you used, it has to be about the same diameter as that roll pin, otherwise, it's probably going inside that roll pin. Forget tapered punches. Some CV axles will have one hole distinctly larger than the other. Look carefully. Use light. Even the roll pin might be flat on one side and beveled on the other, not that that should make much difference. But if you break off a nail or a thin screw driver inside of that hard roll pin, you have expanded the roll pin, and it might not be coming out, unless you can grind your way to it (ughh). I got out of that problem once another way. I calculated that what was broken off inside was just short enough to fit between the outer ring of the CV axle. I tapped and measured until the distance into the holes was as even as possible, and then I could pry gently against the transaxle, and the CV axle came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 hint,hint "its the only way" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortbus Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 But if you break off a nail or a thin screw driver inside of that hard roll pin, you have expanded the roll pin, and it might not be coming out, unless you can grind your way to it (ughh). This is what has happened. What irks me so much is that I had the 3/16 punch sitting there but by the time I realized the one I was using was too small it was too late. Then I realized that by pounding it it would come out a little at a time so I pounded the crap out of it until I arrived in the mess I'm at now. I have ground away most of the axle about as close as I think I can get without getting to the stub. The punch is jammed pretty much all the way through the axle stub, there is no hole anymore, I can see the outline of the pin and the outline of the punch inside it, they are pretty much one at this point. I pounded on it some more tonight and got absolutely nowhere so at this point I think that option is gone. Is it possible to change just the stub on the tranny or am I pretty much SOL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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