casm Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Next Friday, the Brat goes in for its 5-speed swap and the current 4-speed (with 2.7 remaining synchros) is going to be turned into a boat anchor shortly thereafter. Time and space constraints mean it had to go to a shop for the work, but at least the guys I'm using have been good to me in the past. Anyway, I'm using Jerry's kit for the conversion, so it should be pretty straightforward for them. What I need to know before I bring it in, though: - Can I drive with the rear driveshaft removed? I need to have it lengthened (51" of tubing, IIRC) but don't want to have the car down for a couple of days while I do that since my Jeep's only semi-functional right now. Wouldn't use 4WD with it removed, but I'm concerned about the potential for oil loss either way. - Spacing the starter motor: use 90/1000" lock washers between it and the bellhousing to set it back from the flywheel. Is this correct? - Sanity check: use my existing pressure plate, but mate the 6-spring clutch disc from the 5-speed to it. Is there anything else I'm forgetting? It seems like there is, but can't quite put my finger on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 how you do it depends slightly on which 5 speed transmission you're putting in it. but you shouldn't have a problem keeping it driveable. find a used shaft for cheap or borrow one. i've lent or given away driveshafts before even. ask some people you know? or...just drive it in FWD. with the rear driveshaft removed all you have to do is put it in 4WD and it will run fine. i've done this before with automatics and manuals. on the automatics you have to have a cap or leave the front half of the driveshaft in place or fluid comes out. i can't remember if the manual transmissions are the same, it's been a few years since i've done that with one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivantruckman Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 you could get some gear oil to spill out the rear, i wouldnt want any road dirt to get in there either, ive used a heavy rubber band and some good plastic before, slip it over the rear output Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 okay then ivantruckman, good info. leave the front half of the shaft in place (if the EA81 is like the EA82/ER27 and has a two piece shaft). or cover it up with something sturdy and stout so oil doesn't come out. being under pressure the automatic really pushes fluid out fast, don't think the manuals are under as much pressure/volume in the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 The EA81's are a single piece drive-shaft FYI. I thought the EA82's made use of a carrier bearing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 get ahold of the two peice shaft from the original 5 spd car, take it to a machine shop or anywhere that makes drive shafts. tell them that you need it in a 1 peice, most should be fine with that and it gets rid of the carrier and can get you replaceable u-joints if you have a new yoke and flange put on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 The EA81's are a single piece drive-shaft FYI. I thought the EA82's made use of a carrier bearing... Ea82s do use a carrier bearing. All EA82 shafts are 2piece (that I know of). I take it you don't want to use an EA82 driveshaft? An EA82 manual driveshaft should fit, you just have to mount the carrier bearing. Some people weld them on to the body, I weld nuts to the body and use bolts. BUt they are the same length as EA81s. If you can get an EA82 driveshaft and go that way, you could avoid taking any chances of anything going wrong. I'm assuming you know about this and this? They are links to the "How to manual" of installing 5speeds into ea81s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 take an old cv boot that is not ripped,apply a shift knob through the greasy side and add a hose clamp to attach to tranny. i drove around like that when i did my swap as i did not have a reliable driveline. must have been at least 300 miles like that.just out of curiousity,why are you not doing this yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 - Can I drive with the rear driveshaft removed? I need to have it lengthened (51" of tubing, IIRC) but don't want to have the car down for a couple of days while I do that since my Jeep's only semi-functional right now. Wouldn't use 4WD with it removed, but I'm concerned about the potential for oil loss either way. No. You will have to do something about oil loss as there is no seal back there. Personally I use the two-peice drivelines designed for the EA82. Just weld a couple brackets to the floor for the carrier bearing. It's easy, cheaper, and the two-peice gives better ground clearance. - Spacing the starter motor: use 90/1000" lock washers between it and the bellhousing to set it back from the flywheel. Is this correct?. Only if you are using the EA81 flywheel.... which I don't. - Sanity check: use my existing pressure plate, but mate the 6-spring clutch disc from the 5-speed to it. If you really WANT to use the EA81 flywheel and not get the better, newer design of the EA82 flywheel and clutch with potential for the XT6 clutch then yeah.... What you want is the ROUND spring assembly - doesn't matter how many springs it has as long as it fits into the EA81 flywheel. The semi-sqaure assembly is too large to fit inside the EA81 flywheel cavity. Is there anything else I'm forgetting? It seems like there is, but can't quite put my finger on it. Probably - just the nature of the beast. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 if you do cap it off temorarily, a spray paint cap fits perfectly inside the bell that surrounds the ouput. then heav plastic (industrial garbage bag or thicker) and a large hose clamp i have done this for lack of having a driveshaft, and daily drove it for a while. hell i even drove it cross country. expect a little to drip out, but nothing more than the typical cam seal leak, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 if you do cap it off temorarily, a spray paint cap fits perfectly inside the bell that surrounds the ouput. then heav plastic (industrial garbage bag or thicker) and a large hose clamp i have done this for lack of having a driveshaft, and daily drove it for a while. hell i even drove it cross country. expect a little to drip out, but nothing more than the typical cam seal leak, etc Actually if you wrap some duck tape around the paint cap before you put it in it fits uber snug, then just secure it with some bailing wire or the plastic and hose clamp like MilesFox said, but the duck tape keeps it from leaking at all, I drove my rig like that for at least 500 miles like that, no problems at all -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casm Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Thanks for the pointers, folks. Going to answer some of the points brought up: just out of curiousity,why are you not doing this yourself? Time and space. Basically, I've got a 'no working on cars in your parking space' clause in my lease agreement, and a neighbour who loves to complain about every little thing to the building management. She nearly got me booted out a couple of years ago for replacing a dead battery in my Jeep. Apparently I was supposed to have it towed to a dealer for that; unfortunately, the contract was technically on her side. Personally I use the two-peice drivelines designed for the EA82. Just weld a couple brackets to the floor for the carrier bearing. It's easy, cheaper, and the two-peice gives better ground clearance. I actually have an EA82 two-piece driveshaft, but it was the welding part that worried me - well, not so much the welding as getting the driveshaft centred. Didn't want to end up with driveline vibes and subsequent seal & bearing failures, etc. Only if you are using the EA81 flywheel.... which I don't. I have another flywheel, but no idea what it's out of. It has the marks Y5 10 K-3 cast into it, if that helps to identify it. Also, thanks for the paint can cap tips... May have to do that for a day or two if I can't get the shop to weld up the two-piece shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I actually have an EA82 two-piece driveshaft, but it was the welding part that worried me - well, not so much the welding as getting the driveshaft centred. Didn't want to end up with driveline vibes and subsequent seal & bearing failures, etc. Centering isn't neccesary. The carrier bearing is a CV bearing. It will operate at any angle (within reason), and so it is not required to have it perfectly centered. I held mine in place with a jack stand and some shims while I fabbed some brackets from scrap steel. Not even a hint of vibration on my Brat. Peel back the carpet and pad where you are going to weld to avoid starting a fire like I did I have another flywheel, but no idea what it's out of. It has the marks Y5 10 K-3 cast into it, if that helps to identify it. EA82 flywheels don't have the bevel on the front (engine side) that the EA81's do on the outside edge. For this reason it is neccesary to do some slight grinding on the bottom of the EA81 bell-housing to clear the extra metal on the EA82 flywheel. They also have slightly larger bolt-holes for mounting to the crank. Not enough to matter because the centering hub on the crank is the same size for both, but when all the bolts are in place the EA82 flywheel will turn ever so slightly till the bolts are tightened down. Many folks have used them without issue including myself. You can also make or buy bushings to fill up the holes with if you so choose. It's not needed though. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 If your Brat came with an automatic, just for reference, you wouldn't need to grind the bellhousing on the engine side. There is enought clearence for the torque converter to clear the larger, newer EA82 and ER27 flywheels. This also includes the EA81Ts and 4WD automatic transmissions. I'm not certain about 2WD three speeds, but it could be the same. I'm using an EA82 flywheel and I HAD to use shims for the larger bolt holes. Sounded like rod knock until we put those in. If you're having a shop do it, you could get a one piece driveshaft with zirk fittings! Might cost more than ususal to get one made though as Drivelines NW insisted they use metric tubing for mine. I've not tried it, but an aluminum can might work as an output shaft plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm using an EA82 flywheel and I HAD to use shims for the larger bolt holes. Sounded like rod knock until we put those in. I've always just centered it up with my eyeball and torqued the bolts down. Once they are torqued it's not going anywhere. If you torqued it off to one side of the bolt holes then I could see the potential for some knocking action..... Using some bushings would be easy too - just fit them to the bolts and drill the flywheel to the OD of the bushings. Or you could pull out the rear main seal and tap the crank out to the larger EA82 bolts. There's definately options. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twomanybrats Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm interested in doing a 5-speed swap on my 86 brat. I would like to know what makes the best donor transmission or which ones will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm interested in doing a 5-speed swap on my 86 brat. I would like to know what makes the best donor transmission or which ones will work. You should start your own thread. Or better yet - use the search. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 if you do cap it off temorarily, a spray paint cap fits perfectly inside the bell that surrounds the ouput. then heav plastic (industrial garbage bag or thicker) and a large hose clamp Now this has me thinking that somehow, a datsun transmission might be made to mate with one of our engines... I have to look at some things. Hmm. EDIT Would anyone have handy, or be able to take measurements between bellhousing bolts for the EA82 engine/trans matchup? Or the EJ, for that matter.. I am having frightening thoughts and making discoveries that only fan the flames..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casm Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 If it helps to identify them, here're the parts that are going in on Friday. First, the transmission itself (ignore the 4WD shifter linkage on top of it): Next, the flywheel: Flexplate: Clutch (I have another identical one in *much* better shape): I don't know which models these are out of other than the gearbox, so any help with clarifying that is more than welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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