sdycus10 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Below is a synopsis of the issues I dealt with for over 12 months starting in July 16 of 2007. Through no fault of mine, my car did not work and Subaru was unable to fix it over a 12 month period. Subaru was not willing to replace my 2006 Subaru Baja with a new Subaru. I understand that Subaru no longer makes a truck and as such I was forced to trade in my Baja truck for a Honda Ridgeline truck. I paid the difference of $9,200.00 out of my pocket in order to get a truck that does not die when driving in the mountains. At the very least I would have expected Subaru to cover some of that cost. My Subaru Baja engine stops when I am driving in the mountains in Colorado. I have been experiencing the issue since Jul 2007, about 7 months after I purchased the vehicle. Within days after the first incidence I took the car to Flatirons Subaru in Boulder, CO. Details concerning what was inspected, replaced or documented can be found in the list below. I was also in contact with Subaru of America Customer Service department. O Driving the car out of the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70 in Colorado I pushed in on the clutch and the RPMs dropped to approximately 200 and then the engine dies. This is the test that the Subaru technicians used to experience the issue. They agreed that it was happening. O Pulling off I-70 in Vail, CO and coming to a stop at a stop sign, I pushed in the clutch and the engine dies. O During the winter skiing months in Colorado, traffic on I-70 can be stop-and-go on the way to or from the ski resorts. I pushed in the clutch and took the car out of gear to come to a stop behind another stopped vehicle and the car dies. I restarted the car at least 10 times during one particular stop-and-go traffic incident. O Coming down from the top of Trailridge Road in Colorado I pushed the clutch in to take a very sharp switchback in the road and the engine dropped to a very low RPM and then dies. Tests, Replacement and Maintenance: • Jul 07 Flashed computer and checked for codes – no codes present • Aug 07 Flight data recorder installed – factory lost data collected • Nov 07 o New ECU (computer) installed o New ignition relays installed o Flight data recorder installed again – Data showed engine stalling • Mar 07 SOP fuel pressure regulator installed • Jun 08 o Fuel pump regulator at recommend by Subaru engineer studying data collection o Oxygen sensor replaced o Air fuel sensor replaced o Throttle body replaced o Valve adjustment o New spark plug o Technician drove car to elevation and confirms the engine stall issue. o Subaru puts 769 miles on car trying to diagnose and test • Jul 08 o All vacuum hoses tested for leaks • Aug 08 o Vacuum tests again o Mass air flow sensor and CP C Valve tested o Map sensor and A/F sensor replaced • Sep 08 – Phone call from Flatrions Subaru stating that they cannot fix the vehicle. They don’t know where to go from here. Subaru of America agrees. At this point Subaru offered to take my car as a trade for a new Outback (not a truck) and I would pay the difference:eek:. Lemon law you ask – Well in the state of Colorado you have exactly 12 months from the time of delivery to make your claim and you have to show 3 visits for the same issue. So I went to Honda and I will NEVER buy another Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 wow....really sorry to hear about your bad luck....i cant believe after almost 800 miles of driving to diag. they couldnt fix the problem...maybe one day down the road when your Honda dies (not likely..lol) youll pick up another Subie.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 What honda did you buy? A ridgeline? The problem with the baja sounds to be a clutch pedal position switch issue or a neutral switch problem. When you're coasting momentarily before you push in the clutch, the pcm goes into fuel cut mode to save gas and give you maximum engine brakeing. The purpose of the clutch switch is to tell the pcm the engine is no longer being spun by the wheels, so the pcm has to turn the fuel back on. If the pcm doesn't have this signal coming in, it will sometimes catch the engine just before it stalls and turn the fuel back on, or it will stall before the pcm figures out what's happening. It happens in my EJ22 swapped loyale because I never bothered to wire the clutch switch in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 (edited) Almost surely a stupid error on the production line or sabotage by a disgruntled line worker. These things happen - and they happen with all brands, makes, and models. You should have fought harder for a replacement vehicle. If it were me I would have called the local news station. GD Edited November 23, 2008 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 since you no longer have the car and we can't help you this isn't the right forum for this... should probably be in Meet and Greet... it's too bad you gave up and let them win... you could have had this resolved if you had persisted... subarus are great vehicles... hondas are also great... but I wouldn't buy a honda truck... they are great at making cars... --Spiffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Welcome to the Subaru community! :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 could have just been cheap gas, like not premium, doesnt sound like they tried that hard to find the problem. Your ridgelines AWD will suck and you will go back to a subie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdycus10 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm glad you think you could have helped. Subaru had 2 engineers from Japan working on it for 6 months and couldn't come up with a solution. I actually had a lawyer helping with the situation as well. We wrote numorous letters and made plenty of phone calls to no avail. I waisted so many hours trying to get anyone to help. My experience with Subaru will never allow me to buy another even if my Honda sucks. So far its way better than the Subaru as it actually doesn't die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdycus10 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 I used only premium 91 octane gas and tried every brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well the sad thing is that you can have this trouble with any brand car at any given time and any given dealer! Too bad you let your bad luck with the one subaru you had lead you to never own another! There must be reason there is this huge forum and several other subaru forums.......maybe cause subarus are awesome, and the majority of them are excellent and most of them are pretty bulletproof!!! Sorry you had a bad experience!:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Sorry you got a bad one and gave up on it. They are good cars, if you are trying to convince people to not buy one by posting here, I don't think you will have much luck with that. It could have been fixed. Heck I could have fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Sorry you got a bad one and gave up on it. They are good cars, if you are trying to convince people to not buy one by posting here, I don't think you will have much luck with that. It could have been fixed. Heck I could have fixed it. I second that! It could have been fixed! And I put more faith in people on this forum than I would in japanese people over the phone who work at subaru!!! Or most people who work at a dealership!!! The difference is experience! People on here have pretty much gone through anything you can go through on a subaru! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 What honda did you buy? A ridgeline? The problem with the baja sounds to be a clutch pedal position switch issue or a neutral switch problem. When you're coasting momentarily before you push in the clutch, the pcm goes into fuel cut mode to save gas and give you maximum engine brakeing. The purpose of the clutch switch is to tell the pcm the engine is no longer being spun by the wheels, so the pcm has to turn the fuel back on. If the pcm doesn't have this signal coming in, it will sometimes catch the engine just before it stalls and turn the fuel back on, or it will stall before the pcm figures out what's happening. It happens in my EJ22 swapped loyale because I never bothered to wire the clutch switch in. For what model years is that 91 Loyale? On my '96 2.2L, the clutch switch is only a ground for the starter relay. Just to prevent starting without pushing in the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bserk Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I bet, if you tried (especially these days, when its so easy to look on the internet) you could find someone with any brand of vehicle that has a similar story. Its sad but true. Sit back and think for a minute what is involved in a 2008 vehicle. The electronics that put us on the moon were nothing compared to what the most basic car has to have today. Emissions, mileage, safety regulations....these cars are AMAZING! And it works, for the most part. But there are always going to be 'problem cars'. Its too bad that SOA dropped the ball on this car, at least as far as its owner is concerned. Keep in mind there is always 2 sides to every story as well. I would bet a large amount of dollars that the ratio of 'troubled' vs. 'trouble free' cars in Subaru's fleet is way, way less than say... GM, or Volkswagon, etc... The funny part of this story for me, and the only reason I replied to this thread is, I know someone with a Ridgeline. And he is not at all happy with the truck. And the resale value to trade it is awful. (Honda did not make a home run on this truck) Happens to the best of cars, believe me. I guess I would hope for better reports from SOA, as the bottom line is, the car is only as good as the support behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Certainly you can't say Subaru didn't try to fix the problem. You also made the statement that Subaru wont back the warranty on the car. It would appear that statement isnt true either. Every time the dealer looks at it they are backing the warranty. The neutral switch on the trans certainly seems probable and not on the list of repaired items on the car. They certainly threw every other part at it. The number of warranty tickets on that is pretty staggering. Why did you stick with one dealer thru all of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 The bottom line here is they told you "we can't fix it so it's your problem". This is totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I feel sorry for the poor sap that buys the Baja from the Honda dealer. First time he hits the mountains it will start all over with someone else :-\ Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I feel sorry for the poor sap that buys the Baja from the Honda dealer. First time he hits the mountains it will start all over with someone else :-\ Tim He will probably take it to a dealer that knows what they are doing... if you ask me, the dealer the original poster bought it from didn't know what to do. Hopefully a USMB member will end up with it and get it fixed right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Well the sad thing is that you can have this trouble with any brand car at any given time and any given dealer! Too bad you let your bad luck with the one subaru you had lead you to never own another! There must be reason there is this huge forum and several other subaru forums.......maybe cause subarus are awesome, and the majority of them are excellent and most of them are pretty bulletproof!!! Sorry you had a bad experience!:-\ Just an observation... I frequent Honda forums and rarely see as many "my car is a POS" threads as I do on USMB. I find it difficult to say subarus are bulletproof when they made so many 2.5l engines that self destruct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Just an observation... I frequent Honda forums and rarely see as many "my car is a POS" threads as I do on USMB. I find it difficult to say subarus are bulletproof when they made so many 2.5l engines that self destruct. Thats why I said most of them are bulletproof excluding the 2.5's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Just an observation... I frequent Honda forums and rarely see as many "my car is a POS" threads as I do on USMB. I find it difficult to say subarus are bulletproof when they made so many 2.5l engines that self destruct. I see your headgaskets and raise you a 99-04 odyssey transmission... or any year CVT with the start clutch chattering. Edited December 1, 2008 by WoodsWagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 For what model years is that 91 Loyale? On my '96 2.2L, the clutch switch is only a ground for the starter relay. Just to prevent starting without pushing in the clutch. No it is also monitored by the ECU to know when to inject gas for idle. If the clutch is out and the car is in gear moving it will not inject gas at closed throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Just an observation... I frequent Honda forums and rarely see as many "my car is a POS" threads as I do on USMB. I find it difficult to say subarus are bulletproof when they made so many 2.5l engines that self destruct. Needing to have a a headgasket replaced is not *Self Destructing* I repair them all the time and send people driving down the road in them. It is really too bad you didn't try an independant suby shop. They probably would have fixed this clutch switch problem. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) No it is also monitored by the ECU to know when to inject gas for idle. If the clutch is out and the car is in gear moving it will not inject gas at closed throttle. You're maybe right but I find it hard to believe. I overpassed that switch a few years back (soldered together the two leads leading to the switch) and have seen absolutely no difference in engine braking and fuel consumption. Edit = Moreover, here's my reasonning. 1) For the ECU to "monitor" something, it has to send voltage to the switch or sensor (usually 5 volt). When I got rid of the switch I tested the leads toroughly to be sure I was not messing with anything more than it seemed to be, and found no voltage whatsoever on any of the two wires leading to the switch, with engine running. 2) I found out by testing that the switch was grounding the starter solenoïde behing the dash. 3) I have the wiring diagram in front of me and according to that diagram, the only current that can flow thru that ground would be comming from the ignition switch turned to "start" when it closes the starter solenoïd circuit. Notwithstanding, I might be wrong somewhere and I would be glad if you could set me straight by making me understand where I'm wrong. Best regard, Gilles Edited December 2, 2008 by frag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Of course all of the above is for my 96 Brighton mt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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