idosubaru Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 i've always wondered why they make the timing belts such a tight fit? how do the shops do these? do they have a trick? if there's a tensioning device of some sort that you're designing you basically have the ability to make it as easy or hard as you like. and EJ engines, at least some of them, are really tricky to get on. have you leave a pulley or two off to get them install and screw the pulley in place. i've had one pulley bolt strip because of the "install pulley" after belt is installed method. i'm wondering if there's a bit of safety built in to this, like they're tight in case the tensioner fails or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 It's just a PITA - especially the DOHC's. I've never done a DOHC in the car infact. They usually have an additional problem (seperator plate leaking, HG, etc.) so I yank them and do everything. And no - based on what I see if the tensioner fails the engine is toast (assuming an interference engine). Don't know whay they design them so tight. But if you think about it the engineers do lots of stupid things since they have the correct tools and easy access when things are originally manufactured. It's easy to build things, more difficult to fix/maintain later. Some other cars aren't nearly as bad with the belt install and tightening. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Some other cars aren't nearly as bad with the belt install and tightening. Dave the EA/ER series older gen stuff is really simple on the passengers side belt (they have two timing belts). the tensioner gives plenty of room for install. that seems like the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 A guy at an independent Subaru shop told me once that he just takes the fans out and it gives him plenty of room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 A guy at an independent Subaru shop told me once that he just takes the fans out and it gives him plenty of room.oh, i'm not talking about room, i'm talking about how tight of a fit the actual belt is to the running gear - pulleys, sprockets, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abog Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Engineers design cars to produce, not to work on. If they can make the belt 6mm shorter by design, think of the money that will be saved on the manufacture of 100,000 cars. The timing belts on Subaru's while sometimes a pain, are still much easier than a lot of other makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Just be glad we're not dealing with timing chains. I know they normally last way longer, but they freaking suck to change. I got to do one on a 460 Ford in a box van recently and that sucked. The aluminum timing cover with cast iron block and water pump and steel bolts caused the bolts to seize in the timing cover so badly that I had to break the cover to get it off. Luckily, old v8s like that have the simplest timing chain arrangement around (just a chain and two sprockets). Some of the newer stuff with 2 and 3 chains with all kinds of sliders and tensioners is downright scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Engineers design cars to produce, not to work on. If they can make the belt 6mm shorter by design, think of the money that will be saved on the manufacture of 100,000 cars. The timing belts on Subaru's while sometimes a pain, are still much easier than a lot of other makes. Its not that simple. We also look at how often in a cars life the part is going to be serviced, how the engine is packaged etc etc etc. The timing belt gets changed once every 105 months, so its not necassary for it to be easily accessable. Now plugs there arent much we can do about. There is the always the BMW way of thinking, which is basically waiting for the day they can ommit the hood release and force you to take it to the dealer for everything nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I do a decent amount of VW 2.0's and they are pretty easy. But I haven't found a good way to stop the parts that need aligned from moving on the VW. You need to remove the RF wheel. I've needed several Saturn timing chains done and have always farmed that work out. I can tell you from scrapping those engines that it can't be a fun job. Start by removing RF top engine mount after supporting the engine. And an expensive kit with the chain, guides, tensioner, sprockets, etc. Another thing about the chains. They do last a very long time. But they are expensinve to replace parts and labor. A positive about the chains is that usually they make noise before breaking. Unlike a belt. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I've never had a problem on the 2.2 engine. I start at the crank pulley, put it around the Tensioner and over to the Drivers side cam and around the water pump. Then the other side goes on. The cam gear can be rotated slightly to tighten the belt, and then I roll the toothed idler gear in position on the belt and install the bolt. Double check all the timing marks, shift the tensioner over and tighten the bolts and pull the tensioner pin. Double check the timing marks again and turn it over by hand 2X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You get used to doing them after a while. I can pop them on in a few mins now. I put the pass side lower idler on last. To get enough room to get the last pulley bolted on, put the belt on all the other pulleys first. Grab the belt and pull up hard on it to take up all the slack everywhere then you can start the last pulley bolt by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You get used to doing them after a while. I can pop them on in a few mins now. I put the pass side lower idler on last. To get enough room to get the last pulley bolted on, put the belt on all the other pulleys first. Grab the belt and pull up hard on it to take up all the slack everywhere then you can start the last pulley bolt by hand. That's exactly what I usually do on SOHC's. On the DOHC 2.5's I seem to have no real set pattern but try this approach first. The last one I did the idler before the crank was installed last. Whatever works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 personally i find the easiest pulley to remove and reinstall is the lower cogged idler pulley....if its a SOHC Subie align you marks on the cams and hold them there with small plastic clamps...thats what i do...same with the DOHC....i believe this makes the job much easier.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scooby Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 they are easy if you think out of the box, SOHC EJ's i put on the belt and take off one of the cog type idlers, wrap the belt in the proper orentation, then use the bolt that holds the tensioner inplace and a socket to pull it down into place and thread it in, easy as that. on the DOHC ones, those are cake even in the car, line it up, and leave the belt off the pully that doesn't have the lip on the front, think its the driver intake cam, then just slip it on, release the tensioner and bingo, its miller time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 So are you guys replacing the camshaft oil seals on the DOHC engines in the car as well? That sounds intimidating because of the major torque value on the cam pulley bolts. I've done it out of the car, when you can remove the rocker covers and hold the cams with a wrench, but it doesn't look like you could do that with the engine installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I wasn't getting at that I didn't know how. Those are the same methods i've used. I think it's silly that you have to remove a sprocket or pulley to install them. If you're going to make a tensioning mechanism you *could* design it such that there's plenty of room for installing the belt without removing this or that. That was my point, not that I can't do it. I thought maybe they did it for a reason. And yes i remove the cam sprockets with the engine in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 When I did my 2.2 the timing belt was cake. I didn't have to remove the tensioner pulley to get it in or out. I did for ease of access, but it wasn't neccesary. Just my 2 bucks. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 .Just my 2 bucks. Twitch Damn inflation, that used to be two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Damn inflation, that used to be two cents. Sorry, I'm a more expensive smart@$$ I hope I'm not out of your price range. Twitch :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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