Another Timing belt question...

[simbey1982]

Looking at doing my timing belt, pulleys, and tensioner on my 2002 legacy...ive done some searching and see that some recommend the ebay kits, others the OEM belt with whatever pulleys/tensiors, others OEM only...can we have some discussion about the best parts and a price point? what makes the OEM belt worth the extra money etc....basically i want to buy a kit for a good deal but want good parts.....

 

Thanks

 

Cory

[vincentmoy]

Looking at doing my timing belt, pulleys, and tensioner on my 2002 legacy...ive done some searching and see that some recommend the ebay kits, others the OEM belt with whatever pulleys/tensiors, others OEM only...can we have some discussion about the best parts and a price point? what makes the OEM belt worth the extra money etc....basically i want to buy a kit for a good deal but want good parts.....

 

Thanks

 

Cory

 

For price I'm sure aftermarket is the best. FYI I spent almost $500 everyting OEM (TB, WP, Thermostat, 2 cam seals, new pulleys and new tensioner). I think called theimportexpert and they quote me $300 for a master kit which has ALL gasket/seals, WP, TB and pulleys.

 

IF I have to do it again (x finger I don't have to) I'd probably go pulleys aftermarket, seals and TB OEM. It's up to you if you wanna do WP, thermostat, and tensioner. Most people will tell you to do it when your there (and trust me you really don't wanna do it again, at least soon). If you are tight on $$ or you have another car you can use, I guess you can skip those. Like I said, it's up to you and your situation. For the minimum I would definitely do TB since your car has interference 2.5 in it.

[1997reduxe]

I'm on the other topic here regarding my "dumb t-belt question", doing as we speak.

 

But I read on USMB for a long while before buying parts.

 

Some I bought from Subaru, and I still will buy thermostat and gasket from them.

 

But the master kit arrived from Import Experts yesterday, and it looks pretty good...I asked for the better t-belt they sell, and one was in a Continental/Contitech box, and alt and ac belts were also contitech, but there was a second t-belt in the pci box with pulleys which said mitsubishi on it. They charged me 15 more for Conti belt but I thought then I'd get only one. (Of course, with my renewed mechanical Manliness emerging from working with this t-belt, I may just buy that 96 Legacy I know of where they can't figure out why the fuel pump doesn't work and use it on that...)

 

(Of course, my car has over 270K on it so it's not all that critical as a newer car.)

 

You can often find genuine Subaru parts on ebay.

 

also search ebay members for "fast-imports".

They are a dealer from I think Denver. I bought my oil pump from them.

In this board you will find a lot of reference to "Auburn Subaru"

who I think are in Washington state somewhere. I just did a search on that term (Auburn Subaru) on this site and came up with probably the best list of parts options threads.

 

FYI also, there is a really good website mentioned somewhere on this site which has like a volumous database of used engines, everything. Excellent just to know about.

 

'97

[johnceggleston]

FYI also, there is a really good website mentioned somewhere on this site which has like a volumous database of used engines, everything. Excellent just to know about.

 

'97

 

www.car-part.com

 

click on it now and then bookmark it.

Edited March 8, 2009 by johnceggleston

[simbey1982]

yeah i normally use auburn subaru through 1stsubaruparts.com...pretty much the cheapest OEM parts possible. But i dont want to be an OEM snob if i dont have to be. I will only buy OEM thermostats and internal engine parts but just trying to find others experience with t-belt components

 

1997reduxe: How much did your master kit from import export cost? And what all did it include?

[porcupine73]

Haven't really heard too much on the long term success of the eBay kits, but I know some people are using them. I think grossgary said he uses them in non-interference engine. I think the idea is that if something goes bad, it doesn't damage the engine.

 

On your interference engine you have to decide how much risk you are willing to accept. If one of the idlers or the belt or tensioner or water pump goes caphooey you will probably end up wtih bent valves and maybe even dinged pistons, ie $$$$.

 

What makes the Subaru genuine parts worth the money? In general the known good reliable consistent quality. A lot of aftermarket stuff out there is just made as cheaply as possible.

[Hondasucks]

For price I'm sure aftermarket is the best. FYI I spent almost $500 everyting OEM (TB, WP, Thermostat, 2 cam seals, new pulleys and new tensioner). I think called theimportexpert and they quote me $300 for a master kit which has ALL gasket/seals, WP, TB and pulleys.

 

IF I have to do it again (x finger I don't have to) I'd probably go pulleys aftermarket, seals and TB OEM. It's up to you if you wanna do WP, thermostat, and tensioner. Most people will tell you to do it when your there (and trust me you really don't wanna do it again, at least soon). If you are tight on $$ or you have another car you can use, I guess you can skip those. Like I said, it's up to you and your situation. For the minimum I would definitely do TB since your car has interference 2.5 in it.

 

I would NOT go aftermarket on the water pump either, I'm a Subaru technician at a dealership, and I have seen a few aftermarket pumps come apart and take out the belt, front cover, etc... Also, depending on the mileage, you probably won't neeed the tensioner and all the idlers, get the belt off and spin the idlers and tensioner pulleys by hand, they should spin smoothly and not sound "rough" or "dry".

As for the tensioner, check around the piston, if it is wet, it's leaking, replace it cuz that can cause the belt to jump time if it loses pressure.

[idosubaru]

the newer style one piece pulley is less reliable than the older style two piece set up.

 

older style pulley ebay kits are $80

newer style pulley ebay kits are $180

 

everything in the kits is identical except the tensioner.

 

odd that we've never seen an aftermarket water pump failure on here, or I missed it. i think we've seen WP failures, but no necessarily aftermarkets, i'm thinking they were just old and never replaced.

[johnceggleston]

the newer style one piece pulley is less reliable than the older style two piece set up.

 

older style pulley ebay kits are $80

newer style pulley ebay kits are $180

 

everything in the kits is identical except the tensioner.

 

odd that we've never seen an aftermarket water pump failure on here, or I missed it. i think we've seen WP failures, but no necessarily aftermarkets, i'm thinking they were just old and never replaced.

 

IIRC, the the old style will bolt on and work in the new blocks. is this true for 2.5's as well as 2.2's ??

i know the wp's are the same are all the idlers the same as well? buy the old style 2.2 kit and then get a "subaru" t-belt that fits??

[davebugs]

IIRC, the the old style will bolt on and work in the new blocks. is this true for 2.5's as well as 2.2's ??

i know the wp's are the same are all the idlers the same as well? buy the old style 2.2 kit and then get a "subaru" t-belt that fits??

 

 

I may try this on the one I'm doing now. I keep a kit in stock (Ebay kit) and they are usually for the old style tensioners. I haven't gotten the TB cover off yet - still trying to see if I'll have EVAP issues (I have a thread about that).

 

But I've got atleast a half dozen old style tensioners here and a complete Idler kit so I may try retrofitting the old style. If I can and do I'll post back here so that other folks know if noone else has confirmed the swap by then.

 

I install Dayco belts. And new all metal Cardone WP's. I like the Suby WP gasket so I get one of those. Usually just inspect the Thermostat and put it back in (OEM or Aftermarket). Of all the things that would be easy to replace after the engine is in the car that you do with a TB job this is the easiest if there is an issue. I usually do new Suby Crank and cam seals, seal baffle plate, valve covers if leaking, spark plugs, check oil pump, etc.

 

I've been using the Ebay kits for some time with no issues so far. I do sell the cars but I resell to the same families often (about 75% are folks I've sold to before or their friends). If there was an issue I'd probably have heard by now.

 

I use a mix of Ebay(idlers), OEM - seals, aftermarket(belts, some gaskets, NGK, Advance universal coolant, etc.)

[211]

Looking at doing my timing belt, pulleys, and tensioner on my 2002 legacy...ive done some searching and see that some recommend the ebay kits, others the OEM belt with whatever pulleys/tensiors, others OEM only...can we have some discussion about the best parts and a price point? what makes the OEM belt worth the extra money etc....basically i want to buy a kit for a good deal but want good parts.....

 

Thanks

 

Cory

 

Had this same dilema a while back when I did my belt.

You can read the thread I started HERE. Ultimately I stuck with the kit from ebay. It included the belt, tensioner and idlers. I also got a water pump kit from ebay (GMB I think?). The items I did buy OEM were the Thermostat, t-stat gasket, upper/lower radiator hose, radiator cap, subaru slime. Also, if you buy a water pump kit from ebay or anywhere else I would also highly recommend buying the gasket from Subaru. I wish I did but at the time I had the car apart, no way to get to the dealer and it was a Saturday. The aftermarket gaskets are paper, wheras the Subaru ones are metal; way burlier!

 

If you do get an Ebay timing belt kit you may also want to read this thread. I scared myself by thinking I bought the wrong kit. But with your model year I don't think you have to worry.

[vincentmoy]

I may try this on the one I'm doing now. I keep a kit in stock (Ebay kit) and they are usually for the old style tensioners. I haven't gotten the TB cover off yet - still trying to see if I'll have EVAP issues (I have a thread about that).

 

But I've got atleast a half dozen old style tensioners here and a complete Idler kit so I may try retrofitting the old style. If I can and do I'll post back here so that other folks know if noone else has confirmed the swap by then.

 

I install Dayco belts. And new all metal Cardone WP's. I like the Suby WP gasket so I get one of those. Usually just inspect the Thermostat and put it back in (OEM or Aftermarket). Of all the things that would be easy to replace after the engine is in the car that you do with a TB job this is the easiest if there is an issue. I usually do new Suby Crank and cam seals, seal baffle plate, valve covers if leaking, spark plugs, check oil pump, etc.

 

I've been using the Ebay kits for some time with no issues so far. I do sell the cars but I resell to the same families often (about 75% are folks I've sold to before or their friends). If there was an issue I'd probably have heard by now.

 

I use a mix of Ebay(idlers), OEM - seals, aftermarket(belts, some gaskets, NGK, Advance universal coolant, etc.)

 

I'd love to hear if you have successfully done it or not. I read a post here a while ago that they're "interchangable"

[johnceggleston]

I may try this on the one I'm doing now. I keep a kit in stock (Ebay kit) and they are usually for the old style tensioners. I haven't gotten the TB cover off yet - still trying to see if I'll have EVAP issues (I have a thread about that).

 

But I've got atleast a half dozen old style tensioners here and a complete Idler kit so I may try retrofitting the old style. If I can and do I'll post back here so that other folks know if noone else has confirmed the swap by then.

 

I install Dayco belts. And new all metal Cardone WP's. I like the Suby WP gasket so I get one of those. Usually just inspect the Thermostat and put it back in (OEM or Aftermarket). Of all the things that would be easy to replace after the engine is in the car that you do with a TB job this is the easiest if there is an issue. I usually do new Suby Crank and cam seals, seal baffle plate, valve covers if leaking, spark plugs, check oil pump, etc.

 

I've been using the Ebay kits for some time with no issues so far. I do sell the cars but I resell to the same families often (about 75% are folks I've sold to before or their friends). If there was an issue I'd probably have heard by now.

 

I use a mix of Ebay(idlers), OEM - seals, aftermarket(belts, some gaskets, NGK, Advance universal coolant, etc.)

 

since you see so many engines, you are the perfect candidate.

 

but a few considerations. just because it bolts on , will it do the same job.

if it fails, do you want it failing in an engine you just put several hundred $$ of new parts into, plus labor. maybe try it on an overheating engine before you do the head gaskets?

[davebugs]

Generally I believe the interference are the new style tensioner.

 

Atleast in my experience the new tensioners on the 2.2's seem to be showing up on engines just around the time they went interference. Don't know if they are officially linked or not.

 

I have a thread about canister plumbing to help determine if I'm gonna use this 97 2.2 in my current swap. I don't have the TB covers off it yet. I expect it to be new style tensioner. If it is and the old "pencil" style tensioner bolts up I'll probably try it.

 

I almost always have the engines out that makes it all easier.

 

And an overheating engine would be a 2.5 and if overheating (HG's) are the only issue much more $ to gamble on if the old style tensioner doesn't work.

 

I'm tied up (she's about out of the shower) for the weekend. If any of you folks with a research bug wanna try and find out if both tensioners excert the same force I'd appreciate that research.

Edited March 14, 2009 by davebugs

[vincentmoy]

Generally I believe the interference are the new style tensioner.

 

Atleast in my experience the new tensioners on the 2.2's seem to be showing up on engines just around the time they went interference. Don't know if they are officially linked or not.

 

I have a thread about canister plumbing to help determine if I'm gonna use this 97 2.2 in my current swap. I don't have the TB covers off it yet. I expect it to be new style tensioner. If it is and the old "pencil" style tensioner bolts up I'll probably try it.

 

I almost always have the engines out that makes it all easier.

 

And an overheating engine would be a 2.5 and if overheating (HG's) are the only issue much more $ to gamble on if the old style tensioner doesn't work.

 

I'm tied up (she's about out of the shower) for the weekend. If any of you folks with a research bug wanna try and find out if both tensioners excert the same force I'd appreciate that research.

 

Hey Dave, the ans seems to be in this post, look @ #2

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83716&highlight=new+tensioner

[1997reduxe]

I haven't had much luck posting links here, but let me try this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-Master-Timing-Belt-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem220374816181QQitemZ220374816181QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[1997reduxe]

Sorry for the late reply.

The above post is the one I purchased, except on the long ago advice of the aircraft engineer on this board I ordered the "German" belt made in Mexico.

I thought they were going to send me just the better belt, but they sent me one made in Thailand also that says Mitsubishi on it. This is I assume the original belt with the kit because it came in the PCI box with the pulleys, etc.

The total for me was, (I think they charged me 15 more for the other belt, and it seems they gave me all german belts, alt and ac too included in the deal, even though the guy said they didn't have german alt and ac belts), total was I think like 240 including two day shipping.

 

Let me just say this. When I looked at some of the pulleys that I took off of the engine when I took it apart, well, for my money I'd recommend replacing the whole kit every time you do the belt. WP included.

I'll write more about this later, but for the money any pulley would have to be an improvement.

You gotta think, you're talking about hundreds of thousands of miles in some cases.

 

And this issue about interference & various tensioners for pre-post 97.

This is something that really is of interest to me. I have a 97 but (thanks to this board again,) it was built in like june or July 96, thus has the old-style tensioner, kit. You would imagine that it might also be non-interference too, yes?

The guy from Import Experts said you can have what he called a "mule" car, kind of a hybrid mix between builds.

But, I'd like to know, other than the fact that I know that my car is likely an interference model, is there a way you tell for sure, other than taking it apart?

'97

[johnceggleston]

it was built in like june or July 96, thus has the old-style tensioner, kit. You would imagine that it might also be non-interference too, yes?

The guy from Import Experts said you can have what he called a "mule" car, kind of a hybrid mix between builds.

But, I'd like to know, other than the fact that I know that my car is likely an interference model, is there a way you tell for sure, other than taking it apart?

'97

 

the most for sure method i can think of would be to give the dealer parts dept your vin and ask which pistons would fit. 97 piston = interferrence.

[davebugs]

Possible. But you'd need the vin from the car the engine came out of to do that.

[1997reduxe]

I don't mean to double post, but do you guys have any opinion on my tensioner tightening dilemma?

I don't remember sliding the tensioner left before tightening yesterday.

Is it that critical to slide it left before tightening?

[johnceggleston]

I haven't had much luck posting links here, but let me try this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-Master-Timing-Belt-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem220374816181QQitemZ220374816181QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

 

that's the kit i bought. the wp gasket was exactly like the subaru gasket. and since i was putting it on a non-interferrence engine, i used the belt that came with it.

 

it has the tensioner pulley, but not the tensioner.

[1997reduxe]

I forgot to say that, that I bought a new Suby tensioner off of ebay to do this, and it really made it simpler with the pin installed already.

I was going to replace the oil pump too, but since the dealership that sold me the Suby oil pump couldn't really seem to tell me whether I had the right one or not, (it doesn't look the same), plus the fact that I had no oil leaks, well I didn't replace the oil seals or pump.

 

Mainly due to the fact that this was my first time doing this and most extensive repairs for a long time, I felt kind of over my head at times with it. If I knew it wasn't an interference model, well, that would be one thing...

But then, you have to rely on the person you take it to if you don't DIY.

 

BTW, the one best piece of advice to make it easier to get the belt on, was in leaving the bottom left (looking at front of engine) pulley off until last. That made the whole difference in the world, I think.

 

'97

[porcupine73]

On that '97, I say if you have hydraulic lash adjusters, it is non-interference. Else it is interfence. (Unless someone changed out the valvetrain at some point).

[Anthenium]

Okay, so to summarize, what is the BEST Timing Belt kit to get? Or Mixture?

 

I'm doing mine next month, and plan on going "All IN", including water pump, thermostat, etc...

[Bigbusa]

I've got 5000 miles on my "crappy, cheap, aftermarket" ebay TimingBelt and WaterPump kit.

 

It's a 2.2L engine. I did the work myself.

 

I'd recommend replacing all the pulleys and the tensioner as well as the camshaft seals and valve cover gaskets while you're in there. Even if the pulleys seem fine and your seals aren't leaking (yet)... they're cheap so replace them.

 

You're never gonna be any closer so do it all at once.