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Ultimate ea82 build


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85 replies to this topic

#76 CarpeNoctem

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:19 PM

If you did all of that there would be no point in haveing a ea82 or ea81 just throw in a ej22 or ej25 or franken motor and call it good. The injectors can cost more than a ej22 plus all the mods wouldn't be worth it cost wise compared to what a newer motor would offer. Considering it already has most of the stuff you want plus you can just use a lap top as the ecm to control everything.

 

You need to reread the OP this was a (money is no object) theory on the possible applications of power on the EA82 motor. We all know (and god is it flamed enough on here) that a more modern motor has more capability of power. that is not what this thread is about. it's about what could you do (money aside) to an ea82 to make it perform.

 

And a set of normal bosch automotive injectors can be had at any salvage yard and cleaned cheap... how is that more expensive than a full motor? I'm talking about motor cycle throttle bodies not TBI units. and actually a small GM ones would be easier than the bike ones and can again be had at a salvage yard, as can the coil pack. I could probably pick up the parts from any yard for under $40 and have the twin intakes made for around 200 from any decent metal fab shop. the only hard part is synchronizing the throttles and their are parts out there that do just that for running dual carbs for harleys.



#77 turbosubarubrat

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:14 PM

You need to reread the OP this was a (money is no object) theory on the possible applications of power on the EA82 motor. We all know (and god is it flamed enough on here) that a more modern motor has more capability of power. that is not what this thread is about. it's about what could you do (money aside) to an ea82 to make it perform.

 

And a set of normal bosch automotive injectors can be had at any salvage yard and cleaned cheap... how is that more expensive than a full motor? I'm talking about motor cycle throttle bodies not TBI units. and actually a small GM ones would be easier than the bike ones and can again be had at a salvage yard, as can the coil pack. I could probably pick up the parts from any yard for under $40 and have the twin intakes made for around 200 from any decent metal fab shop. the only hard part is synchronizing the throttles and their are parts out there that do just that for running dual carbs for harleys.

I  can pick up a complete motor up for $150 at the u pull it i go to and if money was no aspect you wouldn't buy used injecters so thats about $400 or more for the new ones. It would need custom heads, monifold, pistons, engine control, cooling system, ect. it would eventually add up to a cost were you could buy a sti drive train to put under a 3rd gen and still not know if it will blow up a mile down the road. 



#78 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:59 PM

... if money was no aspect you wouldn't buy used injecters so thats about $400 or more for the new ones. It would need custom heads, monifold, pistons, engine control, cooling system, ect. it would eventually add up to a cost were you could buy a sti drive train to put under ... 

 

If so, Eventually the "Ultimate EA82" will become onto another "EJ Swap" one...

 

Let me show you an Example of an Ultimate EA82 Body with EJ Swap build:

 

~► http://www.ultimates...o-build/page-13

 

Kind Regards.



#79 turbosubarubrat

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:24 AM

What im getting at is the ultimate ea82 would be simular to this http://www.ultimates...anagement-swap/ but a lot more custom and expensive. Essentially you would be building a ea engine into a ej engine which would cost about the same as a sti/wrx drive train swap much like Nicos plus it would be a lot more reliable. I have to admit it would be a really awesome build and i would subscribe to it but it would be unrealistic. There also would be the fact if you crack a custom head you have to make a new one since aluminum welds don't hold well especialy if the orignal casting failed but if you have a sti/wrx motor you can just buy a new one. I don't have a problem with the ea82 motors since there very reliable (my dad has had 7 of them non turbo) but the life expectancy of a motor like what im thinking would be short, so why mess with a motor that is perfectly happy lasting 350k + with out a rebuild if well maintained.


Edited by turbosubarubrat, 21 November 2013 - 12:25 AM.


#80 CarpeNoctem

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:09 AM

I  can pick up a complete motor up for $150 at the u pull it i go to and if money was no aspect you wouldn't buy used injecters so thats about $400 or more for the new ones. It would need custom heads, monifold, pistons, engine control, cooling system, ect. it would eventually add up to a cost were you could buy a sti drive train to put under a 3rd gen and still not know if it will blow up a mile down the road. 

 

first on injectors I was using example of cost cutting. but still your values are way off

 

83lbs/hr 850cc injectors for highly modded engines $93.50 for a set of 4 while you'd need only 2 and they are available to purchase individually so it's even cheaper still.

http://www.fiveomoto...nesis-350z-370z

 

and those are much more high end than this motor could ever dream of handling no matter the mods. 

 

Now again. This was the original poster asking us to spitball ideas or "bench race" so he he could pick through ideas and make his own design based on the EA82 not any other motor. To come in and say "that'd be more expensive than an EJ" is pointless because it not what he asked for. he didn't as for EJ opinions he wanted ideas for EA82 motors. The point behind my layout was to use the engine to it's maximum potential (externally as i'm still getting used to subaru flat 4s) by giving it more power and the most throttle response I could devise while leaving cost as a non entity.

 

Is it as gloyale put it "polishing a turd" ? Hell yes it is.  

 

Is an EJ swap more cost efficient and capable of more power much easier? again Hell yes it is

 

but the name of the thread was  "Ultimate EA82 build" not "what should I do for more power?" this marks my 66th post and I've seen more posts of people trying to force ej's where their not asked than my total posts put together. people know the ej is easier, people have it all over this forum to read. we don't need to preach it anymore.



#81 86 Wonder Wedge

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:08 AM

I'll also say this is a needed topic mostly because of the lack of available cheap EJ motors around these parts. (Pretty much anywhere that is NOT the PNW) Around Ohio, the CHEAPEST EJ motor is a core EJ25D for $200. Oh, you want a running one? How about an EJ18 with 250K. $400. An OBDII EJ22 with 190K? $650. And that's WITHOUT the accessories. Or flywheel. And I have to pull it myself.

 

The point is, sometimes an EJ swap is just not something people want to/can invest in. Especially when insurance companies will pay AT MOST 1500 for an EA82 incase something happens. You've already lost money and now are without a car.

 

For the topic, however, an ULTIMATE EA82 build...

 

From looking at FHI's attempts and history, the availability of parts and interchangeability, the better (best?) option might be to seeking a FI path.

 

Since the heads are the weakest link and cannot draw more than a certain amount, we're going to have to ram some more air down it's throats.

 

Supercharged (SC12 or 14 or even an Aisin blower as came stock on the Subaru kei cars, or something with a divorced BPV)

meth injection

EA82 MPFI heads, intake (non-spider), injectors and sensors

Relocated TB

Headstuds

Turbo ECU? (Megaquirt would probably work best)

2x core EA82 radiator

Oil cooler

(and divorced trans cooler for the auto guys)

colder plugs

 

The trick to long EA82 life is cooling and knock control. Since the EA82's head cooling is NOT the best, we can help offset the head/combustion temps with meth and fuel-cooling. Most efficient? No. But lots of fun, plenty of torque for around town and hills and should hold together.



#82 86BRATMAN

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:19 AM

You know that injector link is per injector pricing right?



#83 CarpeNoctem

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

You know that injector link is per Injector pricing right?


Really? How do you buy a flow matched "set" of 1?

#84 CarpeNoctem

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

Wonder wedge you and I have like minds. Though I admit a hatred for meth injection as its another constant purchase item. As far a cooling goes thing how old these motors are. How many people get the heads professionally cleaned to clear out the cooling passages in the hottest part of the motor where calification is most likely? That'decent boost. Nice thing about those toyota accesory mounted roots superchargers (which are availible in aftermarket too now being made in an frs kit) is they allow use of an intercooler as well. That gives oppertunity for air to air or air to water intercoolers.



How much gain is there to be had from port work? I'd want to start with mpfi heads and have the ports done. I wonder if opening up the exhaust port outlet a bit and smoothing it out a bit would net anything. Unshrouding the valves massage the ports could fix the flow a good deal. And custom machine shops are low on work right now going into winter.

A proper mandrel bent header with a low flow cat instead of swapping stock parts around. If someone welds an exhaust and an intake could be done easily and cheaply enough after having intake flanges cut or cutting the stock ones off an manifold (cut it free above the flange and have it milled to what you actually need). And then just but a gm tb flange which is easily had, as are the injector bungs. That gives better flow and removes the unneeeded provisions on the intake and gives room for better control as you can get various sized TBs that fit the same flange.

I don't know if ARP makes bolt kits for this engine but I know they will let you order to your own specs. At least they did years back for mme on a couple occasions. A full new set of hardware would be nice and head studs would make in car servicing easier.

#85 Gloyale

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:57 PM



How much gain is there to be had from port work? I'd want to start with mpfi heads and have the ports done. I wonder if opening up the exhaust port outlet a bit and smoothing it out a bit would net anything. Unshrouding the valves massage the ports could fix the flow a good deal. And custom machine shops are low on work right now going into winter.

A proper mandrel bent header with a low flow cat instead of swapping stock parts around. If someone welds an exhaust and an intake could be done easily and cheaply enough after having intake flanges cut or cutting the stock ones off an manifold (cut it free above the flange and have it milled to what you actually need). And then just but a gm tb flange which is easily had, as are the injector bungs. That gives better flow and removes the unneeeded provisions on the intake and gives room for better control as you can get various sized TBs that fit the same flange.
 

 

 

Most of the Dual port heads were on turbos and are cracked in the exhaust ports.  Hard to find heads, likely to crack.....hard to find a replacement.  I would think SPFI single port heads a better option just because you can get them still, and if one needs replaced it's easier.

 

As for intake.......you can't simply cut and weld the old flanges.  EA engines use the intake as a coolant crossover.   Might be possible with a Spider intake use the lower parts to act as crossover, and the flanges at the runners could be modified.

 

No point.  Totally dead platform for performance.



#86 86 Wonder Wedge

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:30 PM

Most of the Dual port heads were on turbos and are cracked in the exhaust ports.  Hard to find heads, likely to crack.....hard to find a replacement.  I would think SPFI single port heads a better option just because you can get them still, and if one needs replaced it's easier.

 

As for intake.......you can't simply cut and weld the old flanges.  EA engines use the intake as a coolant crossover.   Might be possible with a Spider intake use the lower parts to act as crossover, and the flanges at the runners could be modified.

 

No point.  Totally dead platform for performance.

 

I must also caveat my statement by saying I only think playing with an EA82 should be done knowing full well you are probably going to lose money and spend more in the process. This should also not be your "I need to go the hospital right now so please start and drive" transportation. This is only a play-thing. If you want a reliable, powerful and easy to maintain platform, the EJ is the only LOGICAL way to go.

 

With that being said, I still think the EA82 has good bones and can stand some higher-stringing. If anything else, it's a good platform to experiment, play and a good reason to crawl around the junkyard looking for things that normally shouldn't be applied to this situation. Worst case, you learn something in the process and have some fun in the process (even if you do spend some money. Afterall, isn't that is what money is for?)

 

And carpe: I don't like having to monitor one more fluid level or buying another fluid, but the real-estate up front for heat exchangers is crowded anyway (assuming we keep the condenser, some of us like quick defrosts.. :P ) and the dosage is variable and you can always dump more in case a need arises (like a spiking EGT).

 

And the MPFI heads/manifold is mostly for the individual injectors and the fact they are close to the port (meaning we have to worry less about high SC discharge temps causing a detonation in the intake).

 

This COULD be done with the SPFI, assuming there is a way to seal the pod chamber against vacuum leaks and then positive pressure. I've even thought about removing the butterfly from the TB (just leaving the housing) and running the MPFI TB infront of the SC for better response and a real vacuum source (for brake booster, vac reference and HVAC controls).

 

Can also throw meth/alcohol injectors above each runner... hmm..






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