tweety Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 ferp420, what ignition upgrades did you do please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 ferp420, what ignition upgrades did you do please? The best "upgrade" your gunna find is something like this. Ive used it a few times on other vehicles and may be doing this to my hatch soon. It would require a Nippondenso disty or an older style hitachi with external module. This kinda rules out alot of us. Ive not tried it on one of our cars yet as the stock systems had been fine. Weve discussed this befor. If someone boasts a power increase on a stock setup from upgrading or swapping ign systems (electronic for electronic) they most likely had a problem resolved by the swap, or decided to advance their timing a bit more during the upgrade. If you guys are interested in more info we should start another thread. This one is going so well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 im running a Al6 ignition box its the pro comp brand its a clone of the msd ignition im still using the stock coil and its holding up fine at tripple duty and the plugs have a bigger gap i dont remeber what i set it at though i got my box off of ebay almost 10 years ago dirt cheap used but never installed still in the box i used it on my scout for years till i converted it to diesel then put the procomp box in my loyale it realy made a differance in the drivabuility and fuel economy all the other upgrades need to work together each mod by itself dosent realy do alot the ported heads wont do much with out a modified intake and the you have to get the exaust out so a bigger exaust is needed my intake spacers are 1" and the throtle body spacer is a inch aswell i ground down the 1/4" bead o the inside of the exaust manifold and went to 1 7/8" cat back to a glass pack the problem with the intake spacers is you have to have the space i have a 3" body lift so i have alot of room under the hood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 It seems clear to me that twin carb upgrade would be the logical way to go for a power upgrade. VW of course has that set up. In Oz, as with my trike a 1916cc engine with two solex carbs or better still two IDF weber carb one each side. So what were the options for twin carbs on EA series engines? In OZ at least the GLF series had twin hitachi carbs with them being mounted close together. Then there is the weber manifold suitable I think for an IDF central carb which isn't far off a twin carb set up. But of course we are talking more power/torque output and that will likely effect economy. Just sayin'. But we are putng economy aside. Correctly me if I'm wrong but twin carbs properly jetted should get better economy than a single carb but rarely do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Reasons NOT to "EJ it" 1) You don't have the tools, skills, time, place or money. 2) You are happy with your car as it is. 3) You have finally mastered all the tricks to maintaining the EA82 and don't want to start over. 4) You don't have anything to prove. 5) You don't want to spend 2 hours explaining to the parts counter moron that even though the "book" says your year and model of car has xyz part, you really need the part for an engine out of a EJ model year. They have enough trouble getting the correct parts when everything is stock. 6) All of the books written on how to troubleshoot an EA car are written for unmodified cars. 7) Having lived through the decades of 70's and 80's American cars that fail either by design from the corporate boardroom or incompetence of factory assembly workers, you are really enjoying something reliable. If you bought he EA new, you have enjoyed DECADES of getting in and it starting up on every turn of the key. Why jinx it now? 8) You want a stock original car and it is your car damn it. 9) EJ engines with all the ecu and wiring and sensors needed to make it work are unavailable in your area or overly expensive. 10) It is currently a reliable daily driver that lets you bring home the bacon and do not want to jeopardize that. Edited July 18, 2015 by MR_Loyale 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoco Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) . Edited July 18, 2015 by sumoco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoco Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Sumoco....in future just scroll past the thread. It's easy to do. The closest thread like this one is "To swap for EJ22 or not to swap" which is about a member that has a spare EJ22 engine that also needed work. I'm talking about reasons to keep your EA. EJing an EA car has, yes, been done to the death. Think its time to wave the EA flag and promote its positives. The EA's demise is for several reasons. I'm about seeking ways to fix those hurdles with this thread and keep the EA. I don't for example understand why the EA isn't developed more by small operators and sold power kits. Apart from the restrictive manifold (which with those flanges can be overcome) there are restrictive heads, also overcome by the making and sale of different heads. From then on its all about ignition development, cam, and other improvements not unlike other conventional engines. Perhaps I could have named this thread "strictly improving performance of your EA engine". But then I'd get "just EJ it" and that's my point. No reason to be a jackass tweety, was just checking. Also you should scroll back a page and look at jeseks proper reply 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoco Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Also the reason it doesn't have performance mods is because it's not a performance engine, if you want more power with good economy then the only reasonable answer would be to ej it. Super chargers destroy gasoline Turbo chargers limit your engines life span Taking it to an engine shop for a power build costs roughly around the same as a swap yet still has nowhere near the power My 2 cents are if you want real power with good economy and reliability, ej your car. Also if you're saying all off is before driving an ej'd ea series car, I would maybe go ask around and feel just how awesome it is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Reasons NOT to "EJ it" 4) You don't have anything to prove. 5) You don't want to spend 2 hours explaining to the parts counter moron that even though the "book" says your year and model of car has xyz part, you really need the part for an engine out of a EJ model year. They have enough trouble getting the correct parts when everything is stock. 6) All of the books written on how to troubleshoot an EA car are written for unmodified cars. 10) It is currently a reliable daily driver that lets you bring home the bacon and do not want to jeopardize that. love your comments MR_Loyale, cracks me up even when im not in the mood..you should see how long it takes for the dumb heads at Autozone or Oreilly's to understand, I HAVE THE DEALER ADDED A/C, NO INFO EXISTS IN YOUR SYSTEM SO QUIT TRYING TO RESEARCH AND JUST LISTEN TO ME. the accumulator is a different style one on the "onboard" A/C compressor than the "outboard" one. Edited July 18, 2015 by Subasaurus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 ... I know of a Brumby that got EJ20 turbo, then just settled for EJ20 due to it being a well mannered and quick car to drive without the over powering turbo plant. Gave very respectable travel times. Like many EJ converteds still would not pass the authorities, something went wrong and now sits a bit stranded in a paddock - no engine... We have much more disorder here in Latin America, but you are allowed to build anything you want with your car, the authorities only checks the Brakes, Exhaust fumes, Lights, Seatbelts and overall safety, you will never have problems if you comply with such basic regulations; no matter if you drive something like This: ToyoWagen This thing came fro the next country, El Salvador. Kind Regards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Also the reason it doesn't have performance mods is because it's not a performance engine, if you want more power with good economy then the only reasonable answer would be to ej it. Super chargers destroy gasoline Turbo chargers limit your engines life span Taking it to an engine shop for a power build costs roughly around the same as a swap yet still has nowhere near the power My 2 cents are if you want real power with good economy and reliability, ej your car. Also if you're saying all off is before driving an ej'd ea series car, I would maybe go ask around and feel just how awesome it is How does a supercharger "destroy gasoline"? It is simply adding more air to the combustion chamber is it not? Doesn't burning the gasoline in the combustion chamber destroy it? I don't think the EA series was ever really meant for performance. Yes they had a turbo version that added about 10% more hp for about 200% more potential problems. The EA82 was a step on Subaru's learning path to their current engines. Without the lessons learned on the EA series, the EJ series would be crap. If you're rich and want power you are going to buy the top of the line STI anyway, not an inexpensive EA series car. If you are not rich and want more power, you are probably going to EJ it. Edited July 18, 2015 by MR_Loyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 This thread has become something pretty Fun, plenty of offtopicness. This comments... ...5) You don't want to spend 2 hours explaining to the parts counter moron ...... ... you should see how long it takes for the dumb heads at Autozone or Oreilly's to understand ... ...are accurate and true.The Latin-American way to search for a Part, is usually carrying the original part for comparison purposses, and you say to the seller at the Countertop: "I want to buy one of these" and show them the Part; all the sellers plays the game: "Guess from which car the thing came" and immediately yells something like: "2000 Toyota Corolla" or something similar, usually wrong, but Fun.Kind Regards. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Sumoco, your reply "Didn't we just have a thread regarding this" suggested my question/thread wasn't worthy/valid/important and shouldn't be posted. I simply suggested to you to ignore threads you think are repeated rather that say they are irrelevant and not add to the thread actively. Name calling is not warranted. But for the sake of the group I've moved on. I've enjoyed most of the replies here on this topic even if it wavers of topic sometimes. I have ridden in an EJ'ed "L" series 4WD station wagon and its really capable and powerful. That's not my point of this thread. The point of the thread is- that with some modifications the EA can easily top 90-100hp and that output would satisfy many owners. "Reasons not to EJ it" doesn't mean why you should EJ it. Owners posting why they kept the EA engine or how they modified it to achieve more hp is relevant to the thread. I've also supercharged an ea81 engine. Well documented in this forum. Superchargers compressed intake air not damage gas. I made up my own manifolds post and pre supercharger, added a dellorto sidedraft carb and fitted all the required pulleys and tensioners for a suck thru set up. The biggest problem I faced was getting it tuned to ALL rev ranges. It was dynoed and it ran great at 3000rpm but over or under that figure it ran really rich. Used double the gas. However I think if it was a well put together blow through set up with sealed carbie running at a maximum 7psi (the maximum before reliability is gambled) it could be an answer. Such a kit could include a sprintex or similar modern SC with pulleys, carbie etc. and bolt on. Such a set up doesn't need camshaft change, head change or any other change. Even though my set up was home made by a novice (with SC's) it achieved 100hp on the dyno and that figure was right at a point when a air leak was found and no more tests were done. But the biggest advantage of the SC is power at all rev ranges even from just above idle. Has anyone installed a blow thru supercharger set up? Edited July 19, 2015 by tweety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think what you get with factory stuff is a compromise between performance/ fuel economy and longevity. Start to alter the engine and you alter the factory products performance, economy and longevity. Just sent an RS Liberty on its way to the UK. 1992 unmolested bog stock factory everything - 454,000km on it. The turbo did not kill this one - inattentive to water pump needs or just a water pump not meant to last so long likely the demise of the EJ20G I doubt anyone gets the same distance from a rebuild as can be achieved from factory fresh built engine of our EA era. My rebuilds never need a crank grind, just a linish. Actually, never really need a rebore and new pistons but I am just like that.. So far, my $1000 rebuild has got me 65,000 (hard) km (sometimes). Buy a new car, drive it that far and see if car devalues less than $1001 I wonder if Tweety went down a road of a new after market efi system whether would make much gain ? Rather than try make a well used spfi system work. Be time Tony you got an old Brumby you could tiker with... call it a development vehicle. Bet you did not add the $100 worth of ebay valve springs to your build ? I have considered same 4 an EA81 after the crispness I got from new genuines in my EA82T. A three speed slush box could also be Tweets downfall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I suggested to my engine builder about the $100 valve springs and he said he could not justify it mainly because my cam that ended up a 15/55 (close to yours Jono) was for torque not high revs. You have interpreted this thread as a desire for me to seek more hp. Not really, am happy with the set up now especially that wrong turn of mine to the 38/38 and now back to the 32/36- much more suitable. I'm just interested. And if dollars come my way then one day I just might do something. I've worked a lot on Lotus twin cam engines and Ford Zephyr engines but decided a long time ago where my limits are and wont fiddle/take apart blocks. I can imagine doing so, putting it all together then a problem and pulling it out and dismantling it again. My old back problem would rear its ugly head. Hence the rebuild by a guy that really knew what he was doing. Included in that rebuild as you know was a complete engine balance. I was surprised when the engine was complete how much "meat" was taken off the auto flex plate for that balance. I'd recommend it. So smooth. As for old Brumby's to tinker with. Not going to have a third registration. I had the opportunity for a brumby recently (see Ausubaru for sale) 171,000kms and driven by a lady in her 80's. Never been in 4WD for $5800...almost like new. Bargain. But I'm retired and not in the market. Tweety the trike originally had a VW 1916cc engine. The difference between that engine and the ea81 is substantial in not obvious ways. Free revving, quitter and best of all maintenance factors. Tappets every 30,000kms instead of 5,000 kms, electronic module ignition, less vibration...I'm an EA81 lover. It's a great little engine. The older you get the more you love it because the older you get the less you are a revhead. Consider this- ea81's with regular maintenance will top 400,000 kms or more especially with synthetic oils. If I do 15,000kms a year that means nearly 30 years. it will see me out. The reason for a full reconditioning. I've likely got my 74hp at the fly with this engine, maybe more. In a 660 kgms trike its ample. Might get a bit more with the right jetting especially on the secondary jets. The take off would be like a Brat with 90hp so I am content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman2 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I bought my Brat in 1997. Almost 18 years of ownership. The little bugger runs way better now than when I bought it. I have the 32/36 installed many years ago, 2" exhaust from the Y pipe back into a SS Magnaflow muffler (sounds awesome even if it isn't fast), run 33% antifreeze, 180 degree thermostat, Accel wires with NGK plugs, Accel coil and cut the drive pulleys down by 20 ozs. She is a screamer, okay, not really but a four wheel drive that can bump on 30 mpg all day long if driven with just a touch of respect. Resale is not a concern for me at this stage as I have no intentions of ever getting rid of it. Wouldn't mind an EJ powerplant but can't bring myself to mess with something that is not broken. I have a minor leak at the rear main seal. I added 12 ozs. of oil at 3k miles to top it off. Mileage is a little over 233k currently. But I have also had oversize tires on it from the first set I purchased on. First set 195/70-13, next two sets 185/80-13, a set of 195/75-14 all terrains and the current 185/75-14 tires. I would guess it has traveled well over 240k and another 100k would not surprise me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Impressive Bratman2 30mpg US = 36mpg imperial. If you like economy then leave it as is, tires and all I'd suggest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 633 574 before I forget according to online sources our sube standard 175.70 13 has a nominal overall tyre diameter of 574mm, and 185.70-14 is 633 , oh and 75 aspect ratio different again - all messes with fuel economy readings. I know how to fix the convert proponents ! - fit EJ20 pistons and see how that stacks up in the old EA's The EA's only have 8 valves total, but then again, so do the EA81S, EA 82 has same valve config as EA81S but don't rev like one ! There is something to the old EA81S and the 120 HP flyboys units - bet they lack torque and would not drive wheels real well !! But then, the SUB4 guys in NZ told me they ran their heads and roller rockers in their dark blue work ute !! The old EA's are good old donks, otherwise we would not be wasting our time 30 years after they were designed and made ! I get your point Tony ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 ... But then, the SUB4 guys in NZ told me they ran their heads and roller rockers in their dark blue work ute !! ... There's a Friend in England, he's also here @ USMB, Running a Blue Brumby / Brat \ MV ute, with SUB4 modified EA81. Have you seen it? ... ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122906-the-awesome-older-generation-picture-thread/page-26?do=findComment&comment=1064468 Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 A true ea81t has enough power to make you happy. The two i had were speedy even with the crappy auto's. I would have kept one if it was a brat or coupe instead of wagon's. I would keep it bone stock besides converting to manual since i hate autos. They do make performance parts for ea81's but they're meant for air craft use. This includes intakes, heads, and superchargers. http://www.flygas.info/en/subaru-ea81-cylinder-head.htm There is a mod floating around to use two coil pickups and two coils. I put a ej22 in my hatch and love it. I just need to work out some stuff and will be daily driving it lifted 6 inches with 29's. Sure you have to do a bunch of work but it's totally worth it if it's what you want. My brat is getting a carb'd ej of some sort. Either a stock ej22 or a ej25 block with 2.2 heads. There are a lot of advantages and disadvantages to both it really depends on what YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR CAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I would rather own a baja bug with a subaru swap or a chevy 350 swapped in the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) A true ea81t has enough power to make you happy. I'm going to have to disagree. I'm currently scheming for an EJ when MY EA81T finally pops. This thread is pretty silly, IMHO, either you're open to the idea of an EJ swap or you aren't. All things considered, if you have the time/space/funds/enthusiasm, an EJ is the only way to go. More efficient, more powerful, more common. If you don't have the time/space/funds/enthusiasm, you will be just fine with the EA, just plan to be the last one to the party. Edited July 20, 2015 by carfreak85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The Latin-American way to search for a Part, is usually carrying the original part for comparison purposses, and you say to the seller at the Countertop: "I want to buy one of these" and show them the Part; all the sellers plays the game: "Guess from which car the thing came" and immediately yells something like: "2000 Toyota Corolla" or something similar, usually wrong, but Fun. Kind Regards. That is how I get plumbing parts at the home repair stores. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 If you don't have the time/space/funds/enthusiasm, you will be just fine with the EA, just plan to be the last one to the party. Unless the EJ swap got pulled over by the cops for going too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) I bet that this thread will get Moved to the "Off-Topic" sub Forums... Edited July 20, 2015 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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