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Ruh roh... broken intake manifold bolts... (ea71)


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29 replies to this topic

#1 Kostamojen

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 11:22 PM

Well, I went to take off the intake manifold today so I could start working on replacing some of the gaskets for the old wagons motor... And sure enough, as I was removing the bolts on the intake manifold, one of them sheered right off.... Its in the head darn good. By the time I was done, 4 of the 6 were sheered, all the short ones :(

I guess I shouldnt have decided to replace those gaskets, I really didnt need to they were holding up :(

Now, what in gods name can I do about it?!

#2 Danbob99

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 12:08 AM

well, on my ea-82t, the bolts were seaized (rusted) solid into the intake part itself (after the intake was removed the bolts unscrewed from the heads with a pair of vice grips) but to get the bolt off, i used a few huge crow bars, a couple burly buddies at the shop, and alot of patients. Use lots of penetrating oil on the top of the broken bolts, Pb blaster is my personal favorite. use, if at your access an impact hammer (? right name for it) on the top of the bolt while prying, if not that then a punch and hammer on the top while prying. lots of wrigling and jostling...it'll come off. worst comes to worse you could drill them out, i assume on your car it is the same as mine, that there are no threads in the intake part, only in the head. You just gotta be careful not to get into the walls on the holes.

#3 Kostamojen

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 03:20 AM

Ill probably have to drill them out considering what state they are in... (ill take a pic tommorow) with basically only a couple of threads sticking above the head, with only one or two with enough left to get a grip on to try to get them out... I'll probably ruin the heads too if I try and drill them out...

#4 Turbone

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 03:36 AM

I was lucky, I only had one break and it was stuck in the intake. But of course it broke clean on the head :banghead: But like Danbob said, it was loose in the head. If there is any threads sticking out and you cant get the vice grips on it, try taking a cold chisel and tapping it at a angle counter clockwise. I've gotten a few out like this.

#5 bajavwnsoobnut

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 04:07 AM

or you can goto like harbor freight or any tool store and get an EZ out and what you do is drill the appropriate (sp?) sized hole in the center of the bolt and then insert the EZ out and pund it in a lil bit with a hammer then use alot of penetrating lube before you crank on it in fact let it soak for like a 1/2 hr to an hour and keep adding lube then try removing the bolt

then if you get it out I would recommend using anti-seaze on it or even some liquid mylanta (good shadetree trick cause it is a anti-seaze in a way) when you put in new bolts

Edit: oh yeah and also if you are doing this with the head still on the motor I would recommend puting a cloth in the intake and coolant ports before drilling

#6 Kostamojen

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 05:30 PM

I already have some cloth on the ports :D I knew that one... Ill go take a look for that EZ out tool, thanks for the info!

#7 subGSR

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 06:15 PM

Yes ezy out is the answer.But if you can get things back together and start the engine and get it heated up and while its still warm spray penetrating lube and use the ezy outs it should be easier to remove the broken studs.If this isn't possible, if you can apply heat with a gas torch, just enuogh to heat the area you want the studs should move with plenty of lube and the ezy outs.

or you can goto like harbor freight or any tool store and get an EZ out and what you do is drill the appropriate (sp?) sized hole in the center of the bolt and then insert the EZ out and pund it in a lil bit with a hammer then use alot of penetrating lube before you crank on it in fact let it soak for like a 1/2 hr to an hour and keep adding lube then try removing the bolt

then if you get it out I would recommend using anti-seaze on it or even some liquid mylanta (good shadetree trick cause it is a anti-seaze in a way) when you put in new bolts

Edit: oh yeah and also if you are doing this with the head still on the motor I would recommend puting a cloth in the intake and coolant ports before drilling



#8 archemitis

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 06:33 PM

easy out didnt work for me, i ened up making a jig, out of steel, and drilled it out.

one almost sure fire way to avoid this, is... heat the bolts way up, then let them cool , before you ever start to loosen them. i havent broken even one that way. but several with just wd-40

#9 Kostamojen

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 06:51 PM

I really didnt think it would be a problem, because the first long bolt on the end came right out... I put hardly any pressure on the bolts before they sheered. After seeing them with the manifold off, its easy to see they would have sheered no matter what because of the rust.

#10 Craven

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 07:22 PM

Find some lefthand drill bits. They work as good or better than an easy-out. They heat up the bolt as you drill and if the bit hangs up the bolt will twist out, instead of turning in farther.

#11 nutt7

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 08:29 PM

I used the same technique danbob did when mine broke...both for the 'stud' in the head and the bolt stuck in the intake mani...if there is not enough room to grip the stud in the head, try taking a dremel and notching a 'flathead' for a screwdriver. I carefully wire brushed it and used lots of that pb stuff and it wasnt too tough...getting the boly out of the manifold...that tested my patience :)

#12 Kostamojen

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 09:44 PM

I tried out the cut + use a screwdriver method... Still no go :( Ill get a blowtorch ASAP

#13 Kostamojen

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 07:01 PM

ARG! The easy out method has yet to work... Already snaped on easy out with just a wrench, and now I need to find a metal drill bit that can actually drill steel... ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

#14 Craven

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 08:42 PM

ARG! The easy out method has yet to work... Already snaped on easy out with just a wrench, and now I need to find a metal drill bit that can actually drill steel... ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

That my friend is why you try everything and anything but an e-z out. Now your stuck with a piece of hardened steel in the hole, that you can't drill through.

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 08:56 PM

Yep. I agree - easy-outs suck IMHO. I've never got one to work properly, but have managed to break off several.

The best thing to do is first take a dremel and grind the top of the bolt as flat as you can get it. Try not to mess up the mating surface for the manifold, but if you have to you can fill it later with JB weld or somthing. Get a good quality center punch and punch the exact center so you can drill it out. Start with a small bit and use a LOT of oil to keep your bit from going dull. Buy decent bits, cheap ones will not just frustate you, they will probably not even work. They bend, the snap off, and make your life hell. I've had pretty good luck with craftsman bits in the past, and they aren't real expensive - you might try those. Use three or four sizes and work you way up to the bolt size. Then run a tap in there to clean the threads of any remaining junk. If you do it just perfect (hard) you might even get away without makeing the hole a size larger. If you do have to make the hole bigger, find a standard size that's just a little bigger than what you have and try for that. If all else fails go with a metric size one bigger. Most of all - take your time. Measure twice - drill once.

GD

#16 Craven

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 09:05 PM

This is what I use, if I can't do the weld a nut on trick. trick.http://www.mytoolsto...son/hanson.html
I've got this a set.
Craven

#17 Caboobaroo

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 02:39 PM

ok I hate to say it but everyone's ideas are not the best......EZ outs just plain suck gorilla nipples, drilling it out is a better idea but the fact that some of you have mentioned using left hand drillbits....come on guys, this car is a '78, its gonna do it again and it'll have crap threads left.....No here is probably the easiest and the least head hurting thing to do (I've done it on my EA71 in my Brat before) Go to like Carquest or Napa or wherever, get a helicoil kit thats the right size (it'll be about 40 bucks but its worth it) drill out the hole to the size stated on the package, tap the hole, put some silicone on the helicoil, screw it in, break off the tab inside and voila!, a new hole. What even better is you can use this kit not one but like 8 times and it works for a lot of the bolts on the motor like the alternator bracket, things like that:D

#18 Craven

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 05:11 PM

ok I hate to say it but everyone's ideas are not the best......EZ outs just plain suck gorilla nipples, drilling it out is a better idea but the fact that some of you have mentioned using left hand drillbits....come on guys, this car is a '78, its gonna do it again and it'll have crap threads left.....No here is probably the easiest and the least head hurting thing to do (I've done it on my EA71 in my Brat before) Go to like Carquest or Napa or wherever, get a helicoil kit thats the right size (it'll be about 40 bucks but its worth it) drill out the hole to the size stated on the package, tap the hole, put some silicone on the helicoil, screw it in, break off the tab inside and voila!, a new hole. What even better is you can use this kit not one but like 8 times and it works for a lot of the bolts on the motor like the alternator bracket, things like that:D

Have you tried L/H drills?
I've used Helicoils before, after someone monged up the hole so bad you couldn't just tap new threads.
Why would it do it again? If you use never-seize when you put it back togeather, there should be no problem.
Craven

#19 Kostamojen

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 06:33 PM

I'm about ready to give up... If this thing didnt have stupid coolant running through it, I would just use some metal screws or something to hold the intake manifold on...

#20 Kostamojen

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:04 PM

Here are some pics btw:

http://community.web...166896604vSrMWC

These are the broken bolts:

http://community.web...170904446fkDGlw

#21 Syrinx

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:08 PM

Craven... Fly by night. Nice.

#22 subiemech85

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:09 PM

if you have any metal close, you could have the bolt TIG welded

#23 Craven

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:55 PM

Here are some pics btw:

http://community.web...166896604vSrMWC

These are the broken bolts:

http://community.web...170904446fkDGlw


Thoughs bolt stubs are or would have been a good candidate for welding nuts to the stubs and they more than likely would have turned right out.
Craven

#24 Kostamojen

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:07 AM

I would have to pay to have any welding done.

What kind of drill bits should I be looking for? Carbide, titanium, etc.?

BTW, I just finished the Carb/Intake manifold rebuild. Now, I need those bolts out, then lift up the engine to do the oil pan gasket, along with the valve cover gaskets and oil pump gaskets... Stupid bolts, I would be done this week if it wasnt for them!!!

#25 Kostamojen

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 07:09 PM

bump, even less success today. Every drill bit, even the super sharp dremel tools, are no longer making any sort of work on the bolts... Not only that, the stupid exaust recirculation thing is stuck on the heads too...

Im about to shoot myself in the head...




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