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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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simple advice...(updated w/ pics)


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18 replies to this topic

#1 nutt7

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 03:14 AM

I am a complete moron. Here' why:
-the other day, my crank pulley bolt came loose while I was driving (when I wanted it off before, it was very stubborn, now it just shimmied itself loose!). then my crank pulley came off. naturally, the car got hot fast and my idiot lights turned on. luckily I made it to work.
-today, I went to the jy to get a new pulley, sprocket, and bolt because all of my parts were damaged (not very bad, but bad enough to replace for safe measure) I began to tighten the pulley bolt and ran into some resistance...I was in too deep now, no turning back, so I continue to tighten...SNAP! crank pulley bolt--in half now. I would have cried, but my friend was watching.

if I cant extract and re-tap this, I may go insane. Has this been done before?

dont worry, I didnt leave this experience without re-learning a few things I already knew...figures
1.) when its 110 out + humidity, dont work in the sun. It impairs judgement and rational thought...heat defies competence and decreases golden patience
2.) if you test fit with one bolt, dont use another to finish the job, especially a crank pulley bolt.
3.) if you run into resistance while tightening a bolt, its not too late. go ahead and back out (see lesson 1) its better to re-tap than to break a crank pulley bolt in the crankshaft. now my problem is bigger. we will see what happens.

do YOU have any advice for me?

thanks

#2 Scoobywagon

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 03:22 AM

ummm.....beat yourself soundly about the head and shoulders with a breaker bar???

In all seriousness, though, if the bolt is broken off at or above the crank, then you might just try the simple approach first. I've had luck in the past (other engines) with using a dremel tool to grind a large slot across the broken end of the bolt. Then use a screwdriver with either a socket head or a hex at one end (so you can put a wrench on the screwdriver) and use this to pull the errant bolt out.

#3 Turbone

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 03:39 AM

If he broke the bolt off in the crank, then its tighter than a .....well, you know. And its not coming out with a screwdriver. Can the pulley be removed? If you can get it off you might be able to get ahold of any material left with vise grips. If not, the only recourse is to drill it till theres not much left of the bolt, then pick out whats left. You must be very careful not to drill into the crank tho :o If this doesnt work you will need to pull the motor and take it to a machine shop. I had a quote last week to remove a intake bolt from a head. The carbide bits are $15 each, and the labor is around $45 +/-. Good luck.

#4 Humble Nuto 53

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 08:05 AM

find someone who's good with a torch.
uncle jeffy once used a cutting head to remove my broken water pump bolt
from the block, and i didnt even have to chase the thread afterward.
i was amazed. and probably lucky too....
(68 new yorker, so it had a cast iron block, but still)

might consider replacing the front seal after this too....

#5 oddcomp

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 10:47 AM

um yeah next time make sure you have that little locating pin in the crank pulley
it keeps the darn thing from spining off like that

as for removal put a punch in as close to dead center as you can get
get a small like 1/8 or even maybe a 1/4 inch bit drill a pilot hole
then get a bit thats just smaller than the threads since you don't want to wipe them out
drill out the center of the bolt
get a small long punch and you should be able to tap on the edges of the hollowed out bolt and push the metal in towards the center
it works sometimes and other times not
i would bet its in there good enough it will just break off a easy out maybe
if you can get dry ice try putting it in the drilled out bolt for a little bit to make the metal contract and then try a easy out .. might work
might not

#6 ShawnW

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 11:13 AM

The end of the crankshaft is tapered so unless the bolt snapped off at a point further out than the end you are in a pretty bad spot....the cranksshaft would have to be removed which means its time to rebuild the engine.

When that pulley came off and it ran hot you probably did enough damage to need a rebuilt engine too.

#7 nutt7

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 12:39 PM

well, the bolt did break in there, it is not sticking out.

oddcomp, the pin was in. it must have broke when the pulley was shaking before the bolt actually fell out...it took a small chunk out of the pulley and the sprocket. I could not find another one at the jy with a spot for a pin...weird

shawn, this all happened 1/4 mile from work, so the temp got up to 235 with no boil over so I think the engine is safe. If the crank has to come out anyway, it may be worth the investment

thanks everyone for the advice

im off to the hardware store to try and drill this puppy out...wish me luck

#8 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 12:15 AM

They have things called Easy outs...or reversed drill bits. You have to drill a hole...pobably 5/16" in the CENTER of the busted bolt. Then you have to select the proper extractor (Bigger the better). Easy outs look like a square punch that have edges that will dig into the outside of the drilled out hole (in the bolt) when you turn it left. The reversed drill bits are tapered and have left handed flutes that will dig into the bolt that you have previously drilled out, as it is digging into the bolt it should reverse it out. Good luck. SHOW US SOME PICS!

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 12:56 AM

I would not stick an easy out in there. Busted off tool-steel in your bolt is going to make your pucker factor even higher (as if you haven't ripped the fabric from your seat already reading the previous posts :rolleyes: ).

Wow. That's all I have to say about that.

Grind the surface that you can see as flat as possible - measure to the center of the bolt, and mark with a felt pen. Line up the center punch REALLY carefully (repeat about 1000 times to MAKE SURE). If you don't get that punch dead center you will have a huge mess on your hands. If you can get it lined up tho, you should be able to drill that puppy out. I would work my way up with bigger and bigger bits till you can finally run a tap in to clear out the original threads. Use a band of tape on the drill bit to determine the proper depth - you should be able to figure out how much bolt is broke off in there by looking at the broken peice you have.... If you do bung the threads, go a size over in STD rather than metric, as it will be just slightly larger.

Lotsa luck to you. On a scale of 1-10, that's easily a pucker factor 8. It's also the funniest thing I've read all day.

GD

#10 northguy

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 08:54 AM

Go the route GD suggests, then back away slowly and empty 5 rounds of OO Buck shot into the block. Then go buy a replacement motor for $100 and drop it in.

#11 Dog1

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 10:36 AM

Probably a bad angle to try this out in, but I have removed broken bolts on my car by carefully building up the metal of the bolt with my arc welder. I then weld a handle on the end of the built up bolt and turn it out by hand. It's worked on my Dodge truck after I broke off the thermostat housing bolt. Just an idea...........



Dog1

#12 nutt7

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 11:26 PM

wow...what I did is risky, but this is my daily driver and changing a crank or engine will break the bank, and I will have no car for awhile

the bolt broke inside the tapered end, so griding or grabbing was out, not skilled enough to weld or torch a solution (in this situation, Im pretty sure it would not work)

I came up with a solution
-am I proud of it? no
-will it hold up? so far, yes time will tell
-is it safe? hardly
-would I recommend it? not to my worst enemy
-is it a damn fine piece of po' white boy engineering? you betcha

read the descriptions of the pics in the 'crank pulley' section. that should answer most of your questions. Im open to criticism and Im glad I could entertain you. heres the link: http://www.ultimates...500&ppuser=3036

thanks for the advice,

#13 baccaruda

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 01:04 AM

wow.


i...


um..



hm.


you, uh..


uhhhh...


so, how's it run? :D

#14 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 02:23 AM

DOH! I shouldn't say this, but....

I told you not to use an easy out! They always break - never fails.

GD

#15 nutt7

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 02:49 AM

GD, i read your post after the fact...lesson learned

baccaruda, i know.

few trips around town and its holding up ok. i will begin to hunt down a short block for a good price, until then...

#16 rallyruss

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 04:09 AM

dam fine Ghetto enginering.

:drunk:

#17 oddcomp

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 12:34 PM

i sir.. salute you
and here i thoght i was inventive with the beer laden creativity. that i usually use :)
but if it works then it must be good! :)

#18 baccaruda

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 12:25 AM

heh. i didn't mean to be TOO sarcastic. I really hope it works in the long run for you, and I think it looks like a cool enough idea that it deserves to. i can see how it sort of suggested itself with the holes in the TB gear. Best of luck!

#19 nutt7

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 01:42 AM

no worries, thanks




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