TomRhere Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Just heard a noise out on the back porch, went to check on it. Lo and behold, the Weber is here. Yipee! Yahoo! Can you say, YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!??! Can you guess what I'm heading out the door to do? Later.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Did you order it from Redline? -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 way to go, tom. now them electrical condui...* i mean Dual Exhaust can do their thing! got any snow up there yet? its gonna be a fun winter! dont forget i still got your haynes manual. i will be putting the rest of my turbo motor together and down in my ride this weekend. i have today thru sunday off. it would be a good excuse to break in the new Weber! if you feel like visiting give a call (260) 908-1259 (josh;s phone. if you come in from 69, turn left on elm st, immediately before the Citgo(used to be marathon) its the last house on the right with a driveway full of soobs. my door is on the left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Brian... Yes I did. Well, from carbsunlimited.com anyway. Genuine Redline Weber kit for a Subaru with the Hitachi carb. Now for the bad part... Didn't get it put on as planned last night. Was making room for the BRAT, out in the garage, when the Wife came out. Had to stop what I was doing and go do other things. But, I'll get it on there today, even if I have to do it at work. Bossman is understanding that way. Lets the Maintenance Department do things that most shops won't even consider thinking about. Miles... No snow, seen a few flakes though. Been down right cold though, for early October anyway. Frost on the windows yesterday Am. Not supposed to be this cold yet!!! But that's just my opinion. Got the feeling it's going to be a nasty winter here this year, just going by what the rest of the year was, is all. Been one wierd year weather wise. And I still have a ton of things to do outside before the snow does start to fly.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Started to install it tonight. Removed the Hitachi, EGR and ASV stuff, have to get block-off plates made up for the latter. Even removed the little steel vacuum lines. While test fitting the adapter plates, I noticed that they didn't match the manifold to good. So, a little help from a rotary file and a cordless drill, hand file, emery cloth, and an exacto knife. Now everything lines up as it should be. Got a little close to the hole for the water jacket under the carb, but it's still ok. The studs to mount the carb are way to long in my opinion, and I didn't have any shorter ones in my bins. Guess I'll have to get those while I'm fabbing the block-off plates at the shop tomorrow. Didn't think of it until I read the other thread asking about Webers. But I have the tall filter, really hope it fits under the hood. Didn't order the tall one, it came in the kit. Guess I could cut a hole in the hood and fab up a scoop. Then again, maybe not. I do have a question or two for those that have done the swap. Didn't see anything in the post I read on the weber swap. 1. Am I to use that black phenolic spacer that was under the Hitachi? Didn't have it under the spacer at first, but I did put it in and blended it in with the spacers. No problem to remove it. 2. Do I need to change the timing setting? Just wondering on that one. Have it set by ear, she ran good before. Guess I'll play it by ear. Been a long hectic day at work. Plus a few hours bent over the BRAT. I'm tired, back aches. I'm going to bed now.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Well the weber is on, all hooked up and ready to go. Got a few problems though. First off, the filter sets to high. Clears the top of the fenders by a good inch, at the front edge. Just may wind up and cut that hood scoop hole after all. I know all about the rain, car wash, water in the carb issue. Won't be the first car I've put a hood scoop on. Now for the more of a problem, problem(s). I can't get it to start, doesn't even sound like it's firing at all. Haven't gone into it indepth yet. Here's what I do know. After finishing with the install, I hot wired the fuel pump, just to fill the float bowl, then hooked it back up normal. Tried to start the engine, she'd crank and crank, but no fire. Don't even sound like it wants to fire. I didn't remove anything electrical, other than what was on the Hitachi. I even dribbled a little gas down the carb, still no run. Thought maybe I flooded it during the prime , so I pulled the fuse for my fuel pump, and cranked on it some more. Still no offer of firing off. Did discover something doing that though. I've ran my own fuel pump wiring, didn't work by key. Still have factory wiring in place. Anyways, while I had my fuse out and cranking the engine, the fuel pump ran. Much to my surprize! Pulled the connector off of the FPCU, and cranked some more. Still no run. So now I'm getting a bit discouraged, not to mention a bit POed... Pulled the disty cap, yep the rotor goes around during crank over. I checked to make sure I didn't inadvertantly un-plug anything. All looks good.. Grabbed a cold one and a smoke, sat down and considered the possibilities. Haven't actually checked for spark, yet. Wife called me in for supper. Afterwards I decided to take my frustrations out on our furnace, it needs beat up anyways. Furnance is done, and running like a champ. Wish I could say the same for the BRAT. Anyone have some pointers for me? If I lost spark, that means something fried. What/where should I be looking for? Don't think I'll go out and play with it anymore tonight, unless it's some simple thing I've over looked. Sorry about the lenght of this rant. I had to vent................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Tom for some reason unbeknownst. it sounds like you lost "fire in the hole" Now the HiCrappy" should have had an electric choke and an anti diesel solenoid "hot "wire" (I.e. a wire that goes "hot" to battery voltage when the key is in the run position) Could either of these come to ground while the install was in progress with the key on? They may have been wired to the "ignition fuse" and it went "poof" I don't know how this beast is wired (it is one of the few EA82 Brats I know of) Check to see if you have +12 V on one of the coil primary wires when the key is in the run position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Skip, that's on my "to-do" list. First check for spark at the coil wire, then check voltage at the coil, working into the interior wiring, and fuse box. Nothing should have shorted out during the install, I had the battery disconnected. Wiring is the same as any '82 BRAT, only the wires from disty to coil have been extended. I did wire the choke heater into the connector for the Hitachi, positive I have the right terminal for it. Maybe it was to much for an old fuse, they do go bad from age. Not saying they blow with age, just get weaker, like my memory. Maybe I'll go back out tonight, after another cup of coffee, and see what I can find.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHATBRAT Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Sounds like a lemon-weber. You don't want one of those. Send it to me and I promise you will never see it again. No more headaches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Sure thing Boz... Right after I run it thru the 3000ton press at the shop, I'll send it of to you. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Tom, here's a couple of thoughts. Check the main harness that goes to the motor. Also check the plug for the disty. It may not have a harness plug but rather just run to the disributor. Look for a loose connection and the fuses as per Skipper. I have never had any problems with Weber installs so it should just be something small. Maybe even a pinched wire somewhere. Do you have the EGR plated off or is the valve still over the hole? You will need to have that covered one way or another. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbs53 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Yo Tom, when I first installed mine, I missed a vacume line from the previous carb. I also plugged the big hole with a caplug and a backfire blew it out, then it wouldn't run at all. I would look for a vacume leak of magnum size. It doesn't sound like you nuked the spark, but you never know. Good luck with it, if I can do it anyone can. Bradd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Got her running, but I ain't happy. Went out this AM, and tried to start it, she fired off, but wouldn't run. Got to checking things out, and determined I was getting way to much go juice. Went to the local store and got a fuel presure regulator, along with some new vac and fuel hoses. Put all of that in, she fired and idled. Took her outfor a test drive, not impressed. She surges way badly when running thru the gears hard. Ease into the throttle, she'll do what you ask. Just don't try to force it any. The exhaust note has changed dramatically from when the Hitachi was on. Not as throaty, till upper revs. Just doesn't seem to be up to it's potential. Can't see the up-grade in carb not liking the free-flowing 2" exhaust. Just don't seem right to me. I know I have some tweaking to do, but so far, I ain't impressed with this Carb. Haven't played with the ignition timing, nor any major adjustments to the carb, yet.... What should I really be on the look out for? ............................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Tom how did you handle the fuel return. Sounds like it may be running lean now. Maybe not enough "go juice" Drive her gently with the surge and then yank a plug or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 I installed a hose barb in where the plug was, across from the fuel inlet on the carb, just like the Hitachi was set-up. I have the FPR, in the feed line to the carb. Had it set at 1.5 lb, raised it to 2.0 lb with no difference, thinking I went back to the 1st setting, during the test drive. On the higher settings, I was getting to much gas to the carb when idleing. could hear it dripping onto the throttle plates. Right now, she idles good at 800 or so rpm according to the dash tach. Smooth, no stummble, no hunting for rpm. Had her idleing at 700 rpm, but she'd stummble a bit when you burped the throttle, or when the fan kicked on. I have a print out of Cameron's Weber info, and followed it in the adjustment of the idle speed and mixture setting. From what source does the choke heater power come from, and what voltage should it be? I have no voltage at the choke at all. Can I just use another "key-hot" circuit? I have the choke adjusted so it won't set right now, until I get the power feed figured out. Got some weird looks, driving the BRAT around with no hood, and a chrome breather sticking up out of the engine bay. :) I laid a straight-edge across the fenders. The front edge of the breather sits 1-1/8" above the fenders. Shorter filter element won't help that much. Guess I do cut a hole in the hood. Still need to re-do the PCV hoses. They're all in place, and hooked up, but no breather on it yet, just open hose. What filter do you guys put on yours? I do need to run new hoses also, old and brittle they be, yes. I'm going to play around with the carb somemore today at work. I'll be back with what I find out. Later.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 At the front of my air filter on my weber (errr I guess its the back really since I mounted mine backwards to clear the PS pump) There is a little white plastic fitting that installs to receive the PCV hose. I used heater hose and irrigation T fittings to get the lines up to it. I agree with you on the carb studs being too long. I just traded mine out for shorter ones with my college physical plant autoshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 hmm, if you're going to have to cut a hole in the hood anyway, you might install a riser under the carb for more torque.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Tom do a plug cut and see where the mixture is the choke gets any "key on" hot wire (not from the coil) full battery voltage I ran all my PCV hoses to a common filter to keep any blow by out of my intake (can be seen below just to the left of the KNN element) Here is one way to solve the air filter problem, with no hood "holin' ". It has lots of surface area (The Suby engineers gave them this much - would think the Weber would need the same amount if not more?) Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeky Moose Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 just lift it, would be alot better than cuttin the hood.. looks neater too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 You can get the short filter (1.5" I think) at any performance shop for about $10. I don't know why redline insists on giving us a filter that we don't need, is probably more expensive for them to make (more material = more cost), and won't fit under our hood. I had the same problem. I am with Skip in thinking you may have a lean condition. What fuel pressure are you getting? The weber needs a high-volume 4 PSI fuel source to work correctly. Here is a good page of info on that: http://www.racetep.com/webfuelspark.html#webfuel Low fuel pressure will cause surging like you describe. I put a clear fuel filter in my wagon, and can see the fuel flowing into it. With the stock pump, it's barely a trickle. I'm going to try one of those carter fuel pumps like they sugest when I get some money for it. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 On my wagon, I have my FPR set at 3.5 even though the stock pump isn't putting that out most likely.... I also don't have a return line on it..... I don't have a FPR on my 82 Brat with the weber... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Skip Tom do a plug cut and see where the mixture is the choke gets any "key on" hot wire (not from the coil) full battery voltage I ran all my PCV hoses to a common filter to keep any blow by out of my intake (can be seen below just to the left of the KNN element) Here is one way to solve the air filter problem, with no hood "holin' ". It has lots of surface area (The Suby engineers gave them this much - would think the Weber would need the same amount if not more?) Hope this helps He he is that little white speck on the K&N still a piece of that cross shredded packing material I used?? I guess I really shoulda used some other packing material when I sent out all the good stuff.... where did the IC and WRX scoop end up anyway?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 With out the FPR, It wants to flood out, couldn't even start it before I put one in. I'll try setting it to a higher setting, and see what happens. FPR is adjustable in 1/2 lb increments, from 1.5 to 3.5 lbs. As far as holin' the hood, I'd rather not really do that. And I all ready have about an inch of spacer under the carb as is. They sent me a 2 piece adapter, adds up to an inch itself. Plus I have the black phenolic plastic spacer under those. Would lift it but need to float a small loan. Lift-kit = $400.00, 14" or 15" rims = $125.00 or so, new tires for said rims = more money. Which I don't have at the moment. I do have a length of aluminum stock, 1-1/2"X3", and some 3" dia aluminum rod. Could make my own lift, ifin I could figure out the strut mount angle, and such. That would save me some money. Then still have to get tires and rims. Skip, I remember that pic of the air filter from before, I could do that. Have to turn it 90* though, can't fit the spare the way yours is mounted. That is 1/4" aluminum plate for the filter, right? I'll get the straight-edge back out, and see if I have clearence for the stock heigth air filter, and the plates. Who/where did you get the PCV filter from, got a part number? I'll get a plug cut done, and see what I can see. Of course with my eyeballs, seeing is a whole different story. Thanks for the info on the choke power feed. I need to get that done. Today at work, I reran the hoses for the PCV system. Have the D/S one going to the PCV vavle itself. Right now, the P/S hose is just ran up from the cam cover, behind the strut tower and ends in free air. I did have the evap canister plumbed in before, teed into the stock tee in the PVC hose. Maybe that was letting it suck to much air, she seemed better driving home. Haven't yet taken her for a drive yet, and the ride home is less than 1/2 mile. Time to go outside and putter around with her. See what I can do, and what I find out. Will post back with the findings........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 Okay. Wired the choke to a "key-on" hot, it be working now. That will help on these cool mornings. Did have a major time keeping her running this morning, maybe it "was" to lean. Don't know. After doing the choke bit, I let her warm-up. Played with the idle speed and mixture settings a bit more. Had a real nice idle at around 800 rpm's. Played around with the FPR setting while she idled. Let her idle for awhile after setting change to allow the carb to compensate to the changes. Didn't notice anything different asto to much fuel, what not. Didn't seem to change the idle quality any. Really just went with what I handed it. I then went for a test drive. With approximately 2.5 lbs of fuel pressure, she idled good, no stumble. Ran her hard up thru the gears, I'm liking this so far. Ran strong, pulled way better than the Hitachi did. No surging at higher revs like before. Ran for about 5 miles, mashing the pedal as I could, doing the speed limit (55) when I couldn't. Didn't notice any problems. Figured all was good. Got to a turn, took it and pulled off the road. She wouldn't idle, period. Acted like she wasn't getting enough gas. Just plain died under 1000 rpm's. Kept her running, tucked my tail between my legs, and headed to the house. Had to make a stop for some smokes. She still didn't want to idle. Came out of the store, fired her up, and she idled, no problem. WTF!?! Was a little irritated by now. Took a different route home, and just plain gave her hell. No problems. Took what I demanded, idled when I wanted too. I just don't know now. Talk about a tempermental, spoiled BRAT!!! Sheesh!!!! Haven't done a plug cut yet Skip. I'll do that after work tomorrow. Pull them out, look at them real good, put them back in. Drive her this way, look at them. Drive her that way, look at them. See if I can find something out that way. My brain just doesn't want to function properly any more. Never had a car best me like this. A carb swap, should not be this troublesome. Even if I am new to Subaru's, an engine is an engine, a carb is a carb, settings be settings. Or have I gone senile?...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I think your problem is not fuel pressure, but fuel volume. Mine does some interesting things like yours. If I take a hard left turn, she'll die completely, and then I have to restart - plain annoying. Also, I think there is a big difference in the fuel volume and pressure output from car to car. Age of the pump, and the state of the fuel lines, and gas tank may have something to do with this. I'm just speculating, but it does seem you have a lean condition, and the turning thing would definately be a problem if the fuel pump was unable to supply enough fuel to keep the float at it's proper level. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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