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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Engine transplant into the '85 Brat-update


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28 replies to this topic

#1 Qman

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 02:30 AM

I started the transplant today. Undid the first hose at 4:30pm. installed the last bolts at 7:30pm. Short 4 shorter exhaust bolts that I'll pick up in the morning. A visit to the exhaust shop in the morning should be the final piece to the 150hp puzzle.

Report card tomorrow.

#2 MilesFox

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 08:17 AM

3 hours is pretty good for a motor swap
when my turbo dooked, i swapped in my carb motor in one night.
i started when josh left for work around 5, and i finished right when he came home at 9, was ready to fire it up!

also, tom and i were at jim's, we tore apart a non running turbo, did the HG and seals, tbelts, had the motor done, tom left, and jim and i installed the motor, had it running that night

we startedlike 8-9 in the morning, we fires it up at 4 in the morning

i have been known to pull up in the carbola in the morning, and have a otor swapped by the time i had to go to work. drive in with one motor, drive out with another

it took me about 5 hours over 2 days to do the imnpreza clutch, ej motors are easier to pull, less stuff to disconnect

sorry if i hijacked, or is this going to be about how quick one can swap a motor?

anyway, im sure you will be driving it by the time you read this

#3 northguy

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 08:28 AM

Wow, Qman. It would be cheaper to fly you up here to do a motor swap than to hire a local mechanic. Nice job.

#4 Mike W

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 12:47 PM

I believe he's installing the built EA-81 that he previously had in a Hatch and I think also in his silver Brat for a while. It was the higher reving, more aircraft style powerplant. Not sure what he's done to it now but you can bet it'll have serious nadz for a pushrod engine. I'm still envious of the Brat he's putting it in. Very sweet condition and he's keeping it nice and stock looking. Glad he got it since I couldn't go after it myself. Should be a show winner next summer and bet he'll be grinning huge every time he drives it.

#5 Mykeys Toy

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 01:13 PM

I know I would be grinning everytime I drove it if it were mine.. I think I willl stay with my plans for !00 hp. Should be ample considering everyone else has made do with stock plus a carb.

Mike

#6 Qman

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 06:28 PM

Well, I slept in today and started about 12:00. Within the hour I was taking the first test drive with Mikeys with me. Very loud exhaust leak but still ran real well. Drove down to the exhaust shop and left it there. Should be ready to pick up Monday sometime. Runs strong but will need to be fine tuned once the exhaust is finished.

Some ingredients,

*Solid lift block(1800)
*Hydraulic heads(decked .020)
*Stripped Hitachi intake(gasket matched for Weber adapter)
*Removed all emissions.
*Very large profile cam. I don't have to specs handy. The builder told me that when installed in aircraft it produces 150hp with small injection and exhaust. After explaining my set up he said 150HP easy. Maybe more.
*True dual exhaust
*32/36 Weber

It has a nice little cam lope to it. Not really noticable but the trained ear will pick it up.

More when I get the fine tuning complete. I may still need to upgrade the coil for a stronger spark.

#7 gonehuntn

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:06 PM

Hey, I was Goose hunting just outside of Sumner this morning. [gonna hunt there tomarrow morning too]
Must of been your radical little sooby that had them spooked:rolleyes:
What exhaust shop is it sitting at? I would love to do a drive by.
A little jaunt up here to Greenwater would be a great test drive. :D

#8 Qman

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 09:20 PM

You're in Greenwater? I love it up there. It was about 2:00pm that I headed to the shop. Sorry if I spooked the birds. Should get together and meet up. Shoot me an email if you'd like to check out the Brat.

Ken

#9 baccaruda

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 09:45 PM

now all it needs is some NAAAAAAWWWWSSSSSSSSSS

#10 Qman

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 09:50 PM

:burnout:
:lol:

#11 TomRhere

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 10:26 PM

not trying to correct a Subaru Guru here Qman. But with Naaaaawwwwwssss, it would be more like this, yes/no?

:burnout: :burnout:

#12 Mykeys Toy

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 01:51 AM

Following him into Sumner made me wish I had a cam at the very least.. He left me in the span of a 1/4 mile due to some dipstick wanting to Give Ken a run.. But that is another story. twas a nice test ride too. I was all :grin: :grin:

Mike

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 02:03 AM

Gonna have to have a ride in this one......soon.:cool:

Don't worry Ken - GD will be in the house soon to work his magic ;)

As soon as I get the front wheel bearings done on my Brat, and the rear wheel bearings done on the wagon.......

How's the clutch handle the power? Even with my stock engine, my Brat can't really handle a full dump - it just doesn't lock up hard enough. No wheel spin at all in 4 hi - even on the wet. Just clutch slippage....

GD

#14 Qman

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 03:21 AM

not trying to correct a Subaru Guru here Qman. But with Naaaaawwwwwssss, it would be more like this, yes/no? :burnout: :burnout:


Good point Tom!

He left me in the span of a 1/4 mile due to some dipstick wanting to Give Ken a run..



Guy in a Suburban kept trying to pace me for some reason. So I just put my foot into it a bit.



How's the clutch handle the power?



FWD is the only thing I've done with it so far. I need tranny mounts before I get to uppity.

#15 JonOfScio

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 09:55 AM

sounds like a good engine coming together. Would like to see pics of the exhaust, heck of the engine, when finished.

Good job.

#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 01:56 PM

tranny mounts......

http://importnut.net/motormount.htm

I'll be posting with some pics of the ones I'm making today using this method. I've already got the mounts cleaned and prepped.... my friends 82 Brat is on jack stands in the garage with a new tranny hanging from the bell houseing - the old mounts were so bad that I couldn't in good concience put them back.....

beats the hell out of $55 each from the dealer.....

GD

#17 Rooinater

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 02:13 PM

ssssswwwwweeeeettttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to see it and maybe for a ride! your gonna be smoking me on those trails up there. i'm still trying to get used to having 3 shifters. figuring out what lo range i need on certain terrain. rocks here in AZ are easy though... dual low cause they are dry and have loads of traction...

hopefully i can make it up there for a trail competition with you :D before i go over seas!! isabele will be snow free the next time i'm home! hint hint

#18 Qman

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:48 PM

This motor went into the grey '85. The silver Brat remains the same. Your gearing will kick me. But my additional power with less weight will help me keep up for a while.

It'll be lots of fun though. I can't wait!!

#19 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:51 PM

My pictures of the tranny mounts - as promised:

http://www.ultimates...&threadid=10424

literally a 20 minute job - once the mounts are out....

GD

#20 Qman

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:57 PM

Yeah, I saw that post. I am a little hesitant to go with a solid type mount for the engine and tranny in a Subaru. It will tighten things up nicely but where will the movement that should be taken up in the mounts go? Axles, U-joints, driveline or clutch components? Show me results of a field test and then I'll consider converting.

Ken

#21 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:13 PM

There's still some play in em - their not completely solid. They will still absorb large shocks like shifting, and braking, etc. Small vibrations will transmit through - which shouldn't hurt anything - just make your hand brake and dash more annoying. The stiffer mounts will help control hard take offs, and eliminate the wheel hop that regular rubber mounts cause. Basically - they are still rubber - just a different kind of rubber, and a bit stiffer to dampen movement faster.

GD

#22 brat86

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:46 PM

I'm going with urethane for eng and tranny mounts too. My dad used to use solid steel mounts and a torque chain bolted from the block to the frame in drag cars. No ill effects other than what you get from the torque produced by a 400ci+ engine(broken axels, fragged diffs...). The theory is faster transmision of the power to the wheels. Unless you're using boost, I don't think think you'll snap a good CGK. The reduced movement of the tranny will mean that the cv joints will operate farther from the maximum joint angle. The clutch will just have a half inch less rotation to grab when released, and that's really more of a matter of how fast the pedal leaves the floor...

#23 Qman

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:01 PM

brat86, that is all true. My uncle built the first dual engine hemi dragster in the 60's. But... a full on drag car doesn't have things like dashboards and cd players that will take the excess vibrations to heart. Solid mounts and chains have been used in all aspects of motor sports. But the situation is completely different. 4WD launches tend to add to the abuse meter. I feel a little flex is good. Saves on the expensive parts. Mounts are cheap compared to axles, drivelines and clutches.

Also, wheel hop is caused by the suspension and weight transfer not the trans.

#24 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:28 PM

Yeah - I was talking about engine mounts when I said wheel hop - I didn't say that tho - sorry.

As it was explained to me, the engine mounts load up when you dump the clutch (engine torques over to one side), and the engine mount being rubber, then acts like a rubber band - snapping back, and causeing the wheel to jump up and down. The stiffer urethane dampens the effect a lot, and doesn't load up as much when the engine torques down. This is all for a 2WD launch BTW - I've never experienced hop in 4WD hi. But then I can't get any wheels to break loose in 4WD - just a little chirp around corners off a stop light....

But your right - tranny mounts wouldn't have as much to do with wheel hop as the engine mounts I would think. Actually - the EA81 engine mounts are usually alright - it seems to be the tranny mounts that take a dump. I'm thinking about just doing the tranny mounts and seeing what effect that has. Most of the complaints about urethane mounts come from "idle vibration" - which since idling isn't moving the trans, I wouldn't think just urethnane tranny mounts alone would contribute to this. I'm hoping that they do a good job of secureing the trans, without really effecting the vibration, as most of that is taken care of by the engine mounts. We'll see tho.

Vibration bothers me - but only when I don't know what is causeing it. If I know what is causeing it, and I make a concious decision to use mounts that allow more vibration, I'm ok with it.... does that make sense?

At any rate, right now it's an experiment - a small scale one to see how the EA81 tranny handles them. I'll report my findings of course. It may be a while, as the Brat in my garage isn't moving for at least a few weeks - we've decided to pull the engine, and do some spring cleaning / POR15, and some welding in the engine bay to correct some off-roading damage to the radiator support.

GD

#25 Qman

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:33 PM

That's all I asked for to begin with. Show me results and I'd make a decision then.

One other thing to consider when stiffening an EA series vehicle is the fact that they are uni-bodies. The stresses will have to be distributed somewhere.

Let me know your findings and I'll make a decision from there.

Ken




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