about to do a clutch

[shin]

so last week i noticed my clutch was starting to slip... and i plan on doing it over christmas break. so i have a week to complete.. but i want to make sure i get all the parts i need, is there any other parts i should get and replace as preventative maintenance... it seems that the brand exedy is the way to go and i was going to get a kit off ebay with 12.5 lb flywheel.. anyone try these kits... pros cons... anything to watch out for... any hints are apperciated... thanks

[davebugs]

Get the clips at the dealer that hold the TO bearing.

 

Reseal the baffle plate, leave the rear main seal alone.

 

Check the clutch fork closely for hairline crack.

 

You pulling the trans or engine? I pull the engine and do all the major maintenance and reseal it.

[markjw]

Definitely pull the engine. Don't even think about pulling the trans to do a clutch. Unless you have a car lift, but I'd still pull the engine. I've recently done it both ways.

 

It's a three man job installing the trans on your garage floor, from underneath, with your car on jack stands.

 

With a engine hoist, anyone can do the job alone. And it's Way safer. Better for the car, too.

[Fairtax4me]

Yeah, you're better off to pick the engine than to drop the trans unless the trans needs work. You can R&R the trans by yourself, but it's 100 times easier with a helper.

Get a set of exhaust manifold gaskets.

Replace the release lever. It's cheap (like $25) and they tend to crack with age which will prevent the clutch from disengaging when you push the pedal down.

And if the separator plate hasn't been done before, definitely change it.

 

edit: Steer clear of lightweight flywheels for road use.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Fairtax4me

[afterbang]

this weekend im having a clutch job done by a board member here. i went with the exedy clutch kit off of amazon.com for $142.00 and purchased a subaru flywheel for $200.00 from 1stsubaruparts.com. It took me a while to figure this out but exedy doesn't make an oe flywheel for the phase 1 dohc engines (guessing this is what you have from your avatar). if you have a 2.2L you can get the exedy flywheel for under $100 dollars.

 

i was able to have a family member who lives by the dealership that runs 1stsubaruparts.com pick up my order so that saved me a little bit of money but it's usually just 10% of your order for shipping. the exedy clutch kit had free shipping.

 

i know which kit you're looking at w/ the lightweight flywheel and those on here with experience talked me out of it.

[nipper]

Subarus really do not like lightened flywheels for road use.

 

Use the stock.

[jdemaris]

is there any other parts i should get and replace as preventative maintenance... it seems that the brand exedy is the way to go and i was going to get a kit off ebay with 12.5 lb flywheel..

 

I stopped paying attention to brand names years ago. It often means nothing. Many of the most prominent corporate names swap products back and forth. I have not seen any difference in quality from names like Exedy, Brute Force, Perfection, Sachs, Beck-Arnley, etc. I've always bought by price, not brand-name. The one brand-name I'll never trust again - is the USA-brand AC Delco.

 

I've put half a dozen new clutches in my own Subarus over the past 20 years, along with many for others It seems that whenever I buy a used Subaru with a stick, a month later the clutch goes. I put a new one in, and have never had one go again. That goes for Justys, Loyales, and Imprezas.

 

I have never yet, had a Subaru that needed a new flywheel, or even any resurfacing. They are engineered so when the clutch starts slipping, there is still facing left, and little to no flywheel damage is done. That is partly due to the organic clutch.

 

I'll add that with several, I put in new clutches without even pulling the engine. With those you can slide the engine forward enough to get just enough clearance to change the pressure plate and disk. Not the throughout bearaing though - it's too tight in there.

 

You asked about preventative maintainance. That boils down to replacing any part that shows wear - and don't let anybody drive your car that can't drive stick. If you choose a metallic clutch, it can last longer, but is also apt to ruin your flywheel when it does wear out. You don't get something for nothing. I see organic clutches easily getting 150K miles if the person driving the car knows how to drive a stick.

 

Last two complete clutch kits I bought for Loyales were from Brute Force and cost $80 each. I also just put a new clutch in a 2002 Impreza Outback with a 2.5. The Sachs kit was $165 shipped to my door. The Exedy would of cost the same. So, I could of bought from the Serbian-German company, or from the Japan-Hiroshima company. Quality-wise, the parts are probably identical.

[jdemaris]

, is there any other parts i should get and replace as preventative maintenance... it seems that the brand exedy is the way to go and i was going to get a kit off ebay with 12.5 lb flywheel.. anyone try these kits... pros cons... anything to watch out for... any hints are apperciated... thanks

 

 

 

is there any other parts i should get and replace as preventative maintenance... it seems that the brand exedy is the way to go and i was going to get a kit off ebay with 12.5 lb flywheel..

 

I stopped paying attention to brand names years ago. It often means nothing. Many of the most prominent corporate names swap products back and forth. I have not seen any difference in quality from names like Exedy, Brute Force, Perfection, Sachs, Beck-Arnley, etc. I've always bought by price, not brand-name. The one brand-name I'll never trust again - is the USA-brand AC Delco.

 

I've put half a dozen new clutches in my own Subarus over the past 20 years, along with many for others It seems that whenever I buy a used Subaru with a stick, a month later the clutch goes. I put a new one in, and have never had one go again. That goes for Justys, Loyales, and Imprezas.

 

I have never yet, had a Subaru that needed a new flywheel, or even any resurfacing. They are engineered so when the clutch starts slipping, there is still facing left, and little to no flywheel damage is done. That is partly due to the organic clutch.

 

I'll add that with several, I put in new clutches without even pulling the engine. With those you can slide the engine forward enough to get just enough clearance to change the pressure plate and disk. Not the throughout bearaing though - it's too tight in there.

 

You asked about preventative maintainance. That boils down to replacing any part that shows wear - and don't let anybody drive your car that can't drive stick. If you choose a metallic clutch, it can last longer, but is also apt to ruin your flywheel when it does wear out. You don't get something for nothing. I see organic clutches easily getting 150K miles if the person driving the car knows how to drive a stick.

 

Last two complete clutch kits I bought for Loyales were from Brute Force and cost $80 each. I also just put a new clutch in a 2002 Impreza Outback with a 2.5. The Sachs kit was $165 shipped to my door. The Exedy would of cost the same. So, I could of bought from the Serbian-German company, or from the Japan-Hiroshima company. Quality-wise, the parts are probably identical.

[shin]

so, so far i need

 

-clutch fork

-clips for to bearing

-manifold/header gaskets

 

-pull motor not trans

-skip the lightened flywheel

 

while i am at it i am thinking about buying the knock off header off ebay... suggestions??

 

what is a seperator plate, is it a pressure plate?

and also a baffle plate?

thanks for all the input...

[lostinthe202]

 

I have never yet, had a Subaru that needed a new flywheel, or even any resurfacing. They are engineered so when the clutch starts slipping, there is still facing left, and little to no flywheel damage is done. That is partly due to the organic clutch.

 

 

The three Subaru owners I know with a manual trans (myself included) had clutch shudder which is caused by glazing on the flywheel surface, pretty common (from what I understand) in the late 90's Subarus. If you have a whole week to get the job done, I would suggest having a shop resurface the flywheel. You can usually get it done for under $50 which is a big improvement over buying a new one.

[GeneralDisorder]

I've experienced both flywheel wear/grooving from severely worn clutches as well as shuddering from not resurfacing them - I've also experienced shuddering from an improper sufacing job...... my feeling is that if the flywheel is not worn - don't touch it. And if it is - resurfacing is an option but so is replacement. Case-by-case basis for me. Boils down to turn-around time, etc.

 

GD

[davebugs]

Baffle plate and oil seperator plate are the same thing. I reseal the plastic ones with Ultra Grey, some folks get new metal ones and the matching screws. The metal one would need sealed as well.

 

I ALWAYS get the flywheel resurfaced. But I do everything completely! No sense not to while you're in there.

 

For instance when I do HG's I almost always send them out to be checked/surfaced even if they are within 4 thousandth's. I also always send the radiators out to be flushed and pressure tested.

 

I leave the rear main seal alone unless it's already been replaced - because if it's been replaced it's likely leaking, if original it's probably not.

 

Thinking of timing belt, crank & cam seals, idlers, etc or just gonna do the complete clutch job?

[Fairtax4me]

What he said. ^

 

Separator plate kit: http://subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=11564

[shin]

yea i am definatly getting the flywheel sent out.. looks like im going to add the baffle plate to the list... and i was thinking about doing heads and belt but i have reciepts for them and they only have 30k on em..

[davebugs]

Were the HG's OEM? If not I'd do them.

 

Check the crank/cam seals while it's one, VC gaskets. Heck I'd throw a new set on NGK's in it anyways while it's out and they easy - we're talking less than 10 bucks.

[jdemaris]

The three Subaru owners I know with a manual trans (myself included) had clutch shudder which is caused by glazing on the flywheel surface, pretty common (from what I understand) in the late 90's Subarus. If you have a whole week to get the job done, I would suggest having a shop resurface the flywheel. You can usually get it done for under $50 which is a big improvement over buying a new one.

 

I've worked as HD mechanic for 40 years. Can't say I've ever seen evidence of a "glazed" surface on a flywheel causing a "shudder." Not in a car or a big tractor. Such a shudder is going to be caused by something being uneven, or oil on a disk, etc. If from something uneven - it can be the flywheel surface not being true/flat, the pressure-plate not releasing or grabbing concentrically, etc. Flywheels get raised hot spots, heat cracks, etc. With a dial indicator mounted, no more then .002" runout should be present.

 

Glaze is the last thing I'd be concerned about. I'll take a used, glazed, but still true and flat flywheel over one that's been remachined and lightened. All "glaze" means is the surface is super-smooth.

 

I'm not saying that using a worn flywheel can't cause problems. What I AM saying, it's not going to be from a glazed surface. When you rebuild an engine, you don't want glaze on cylinder walls because you need small grooves to hold oil . Not the case on a flywheel though. Glaze hurts nothing. Resurface that flywheel, and then drive for awhile, and it will soon glaze anyway.

 

I hear the same nonsense with brake pads and calipers. Glaze is fine, but not being true causes problems. I suspect many more brake problems have been caused by resurfacing rotors - then from leaving good ones alone. same goes for jerks putting wheels back on with impact wrenches - and warping rotors.

 

If your flywheel looks good but you are unsure - stick a dial indicator on it, rotate it, and see how much run-out you have. That's the issue, not a smooth surface (which is what glaze is).

 

Technically, the more you resurface a flywheel, the faster it can heat up. Not a huge issue on little cars, but can be a big issue on HD stuff.

[shin]

is that subarupartsforyou website the same cost of parts from all dealers... cause i have a suby dealer not that far from me and if the parts dont cost anymore i will just go there. plus i like dealing in person anyways..

[johnceggleston]

is that subarupartsforyou website the same cost of parts from all dealers... cause i have a suby dealer not that far from me and if the parts dont cost anymore i will just go there. plus i like dealing in person anyways..

 

some dealer parts counters will match the online price, and then you save the shipping, but most charge retail, not wholesale. talk to them and see if you can work a deal.

[wtdash]

Check out subarugenuineparts.com for decent online prices and shipping costs.

 

 

Also, the 'snout' on the transmission may be worn like THIS. If so, I recommend the Tranquil Snout Sleeve kit. I bought mine from performance@smart-service.com. Make sure you get the right one for your car.

 

GL,

TD

[shin]

went to the local dealer for the first time... it sucks... you actually have to go to the honda dealer parts center to get parts... guy was a da and not very friendly... but i got hte baffle plate fork and the clips for 75 and they were all in stock... so thanks again everyone for all the help...

[davebugs]

went to the local dealer for the first time... it sucks... you actually have to go to the honda dealer parts center to get parts... guy was a da and not very friendly... but i got hte baffle plate fork and the clips for 75 and they were all in stock... so thanks again everyone for all the help...

 

SCREWS!!

 

I believe you need new screws for the new baffle plate.

[shin]

o yea got the screws also... i made sure of that..

[1-3-2-4]

what causes clutch shudder anyways? I notice it happens if I don't have my revs up enough when taking off

[lostinthe202]

 

Glaze is the last thing I'd be concerned about. I'll take a used, glazed, but still true and flat flywheel over one that's been remachined and lightened. All "glaze" means is the surface is super-smooth.

 

Sorry, my mistake. What you referred to as "raised hot spots" is what I thought "glazing" was. I assumed that my clutch shudder was caused (as you suggested in your post) by a warped flywheel or pressure plate, but when I put the flywheel on a surface plate, I got just a hair over .001 (if I avoided the "hot spots".) The PP I'm not really sure about. I could only check it by laying it on a surface plate and sticking shims under it. There were "hot spots" on the PP too and I could get a .002 under but not a .004 though I can't say if it was warped or not.

 

There was no oil on the clutch surface as far as I could tell and no leaks in my trans or engine that would be responsible for oil getting on the disc.

 

Technically, the more you resurface a flywheel, the faster it can heat up. Not a huge issue on little cars, but can be a big issue on HD stuff.

 

 

When I turned the flywheel, I only had to remove about .015 to get rid of the hot spots which I don't think lightened the flywheel by any appreciable amount.

 

When it all went back together, I got close to 50k shudder-free miles out of it before I sold the car.

 

I remember seeing in the blurb that came with the clutch kit that the flywheel needed to have no more than .002 of runout and being amazed that it had to be so flat. Our honda civic called for something like .030 which I suppose could have been a misprint.

[Goobysoobs]

So what about Pressure plates? Machine or replace? I'm doing my clutch now and on a bit of a budget So wondering if anyone has had them machined or not.