What's up with these ball joints? (pics)

[l75eya]

As I posted in the what have you done to your subaru thread, I'm preparing to do the front end on the Loyale.

 

Was gonna go cheap, but read some things and decided to go for quality, thus, all the suspension and steering components I ordered are MOOG, and the struts are KYB's.

 

Now about the ball-joints, I'm going to attach a couple photos but backstory:

Ordered a quantity of 2 ball joints. Both having the same part number (Viewable in photos), which is all I could find listed, which makes me think the ball joints are identical on both left and right sides of the vehicle.

 

When I checked them out, first thing throwing me off is the boxes are noticeably different. Second thing throwing me off is that the ball joints themselves are noticeably different from each-other. For these reasons, I've taken detailed pictures of them side by side and seek the board's advice.

 

What's up with these and do I need to send them back?

 

Still don't have all my parts so I'm not being held up but I would like to take care of this asap if I do indeed need to make some phone calls. Thanks in advance for the help fellas

Hoping everything is OK as this is my first major experience with RockAuto

 

Pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even the hardware for each ball joint is different...?

 

 

 

 

Thanks again for whoever takes a look.

[nipper]

Freom what I can see, they look differnet, but the critical areas and function are the same. I bet one is either a in house production run vs a vendor supplied part OR a production change to save costs.

 

Or a mistake.

 

I would call them.

[l75eya]

I was throwing that idea around in my head. They do even have similar castings on their underside the entirely rubber booted on having "3F" on it and the exposed metal one having "Three (555) Five" on the bottom of it.

 

The exposed metal one appears to be higher quality than the other one, having an actual castellated nut and cotter pin + hole opposed to the full rubber covered one that only has a plastic filled lock-nut.

 

I'll see what some other people think and I'm definitely leaning towards calling up rockauto.

 

Thanks Nipper!

[nipper]

SKip Rockauto as they may not know about it (but may be able to sned you a matching one) I would call MOOG and ask

[mikaleda]

i would defiantly contact moog

[ivans imports]

moog ball joints suck i will never use them ever more money and dont fitt and boots are crapy and dont fitt ball joint and let dirt in yuk get a beck arndly or a made in japan one moog just sub lets there part manufactureing out to cheapest bidder no i do like them ivan i a'm sorry to mutch dr zuese

[l75eya]

Called up MOOG, the good for almost nothing I hate my job sounding guy on the other end confirmed that no version of the MOOG K9081 ball joint (later gl's loyales) came without a castellated nut...

So that means my first experience with RockAuto is a fail. They sent me the wrong ball-joint.

On the bright-side their customer service is proving to be very helpful and intuitive.

 

They may have messed up on my struts too, but I've gotten the answer I needed about the balljoints.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[O.C.D.]

Seems like Rock Auto is hit or miss for almost anyone I have ever seen order from them?! Not like a 1 in 10 thing gets messed up but 50/50....

 

No consistency is my point.

[Stubies Subie]

I would not use the one with the nylon lock nut, I'd stick with the one with the castle nut and cotter pin, I like the guarantee of the cotter pin locking the nut in place that it's never going to back off there for any reason

[naru]

Seems like Rock Auto is hit or miss for almost anyone I have ever seen order from them?! Not like a 1 in 10 thing gets messed up but 50/50....

 

No consistency is my point.

 

If you consider this a failure(it is not),at least be observant enough to see that it is a "failure" from MOOG,not Rockauto.They are both MOOG 9081s.

MOOG buys them from whoever and reboxes them.

[Petersubaru]

I hope you didn't pay to much for these ball joints ..."problem solver" joints are especially made to fit into an alloy type housing to avoid corrossion between the 2 metals... $15-$20 for TRW joints at your local parts place...

[Petersubaru]

If you consider this a failure(it is not),at least be observant enough to see that it is a "failure" from MOOG,not Rockauto.They are both MOOG 9081s.

MOOG buys them from whoever and reboxes them.

.. my experience with rockauto as been mostly excellent..50+ times with 2 misses..there service department has always been top notch..and they have even called my place 3 times to make sure that all is good...who knows for sure, but, looks to me that a ball joint was exchanged by someone who purchased with the intent to bring back a cheepo joint in place of the much more expensive joint..had this happen to me with a loyale HG...my daughters lincoln ball joint is $150 a side ...cheapo is $40....box is returned and sent to a different location and nobody knows the difference.. Edited June 7, 2012 by Petersubaru

[Storydude1]

If you consider this a failure(it is not),at least be observant enough to see that it is a "failure" from MOOG,not Rockauto.They are both MOOG 9081s.

MOOG buys them from whoever and reboxes them.

 

THIS.

 

Most auto parts suppliers do this frequently.

 

Parts have same dimensions, just look different, because they are 2 different designs of the same ball joint.

 

One which looks made to a pricepoint lower than the other.

 

At least he didn't open a "sealed" box of NGK plugs and find 2 that were attacked by a set of vice grips.

[mikaleda]

its kinda like you have to deal with their mess ups so you can get the better price:-p

[l75eya]

I would not use the one with the nylon lock nut, I'd stick with the one with the castle nut and cotter pin

 

That's the plan. It's much higher quality altogether and I'm having another identical sent. Rockauto told me to use the other one as a paper-weight.

[ShawnW]

its kinda like you have to deal with their mess ups so you can get the better price:-p

 

I have a supplier like that. Or, I did and I couldn't stand it anymore. Its not worth it for a few bucks to mess with returns, tied up funds, etc.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...the entirely rubber booted on having "3F" on it and the exposed metal one having "Three (555) Five" on the bottom of it...

 

►The "Three Five (555)" Brand is a Japanese Brand made by SANKEI INDUSTRY CO. LTD.; JAPAN; is Well-Known here and has Good Reputation, but recently Chinese imitations started to appear on our Market, so the Original Three Five (555) Brand has Holograms on their Sealed Bags with the Parts inside.

 

http://www.sankei-555.co.jp/

 

 

►The "3F" Brand is Cheaper, Made in Hong Kong Auto Parts.

 

http://www.3f-automobile.com/Html/Main.asp

 

 

►MOOG is almost Unknown here, in my Country.

 

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/

 

 

But This:

 

...MOOG buys them from whoever and reboxes them.

Explains why you've Received two different Brands inside MOOG Boxes; isn't it?

[mikaleda]

I have a supplier like that. Or, I did and I couldn't stand it anymore. Its not worth it for a few bucks to mess with returns, tied up funds, etc.

 

i agree. i will occasionally use them if the price is substantially better but for the most part its worth spending a little more to not have to deal with the mess ups

[l75eya]

Thanks Jeszek for the detective work! Ha, I don't think I'll be going for MOOG ball-joints in the future. Even on their own web-site they don't list ball joints for our cars, so who knows what I got. They are much better than what is on the car, so they're going in, but they're not what I paid for, so that's the end of that. B&A's in the future.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Thanks Jeszek for the detective work! ... B&A's in the future.

 

You're Welcome!

 

Could I Ask what is the Meaning of B&A?

 

Kind Regards.

[Numbchux]

You're Welcome!

 

Could I Ask what is the Meaning of B&A?

 

Kind Regards.

 

I assume he means Beck/Arnley.

 

 

I've always run Moog BJs and TREs. Always been satisfied. Can't tell from those pics if those are actually for a different application, or just slightly different design. As long as the diameters of the housing and shaft are the same, it should be fine.

 

+1 for this being a Moog mixup, and nothing to do with RockAuto. This is like the KYB Excel-G/GR2 issue. They are the exact same strut, except name and color, so KYB uses the same part number. Which means if you order them (from anywhere) you don't really know what you're going to get. My Celica has 3 Excel-Gs and one GR2.....oh well.

 

 

 

Also, loyale parts:

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/products.asp?cat=19313

 

Lists a ball joint, same part number you have. Obviously a generic file photo, but there it is.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Thank you for the Answer.

 

I believe that Both Ball Joints are for the same Application but Different Design, Because they are Two Different Brands, The one with Castle Nut (Japan Three (555) Five Brand) is more Expensive, while the one with Security (Nylon inner) Nut (Hong Kong 3F Brand) is Cheaper.

 

Kind Regards.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo
Mispelled Word, Fixed.

[aba4430]

My personal experience with Rockauto has overall been quite good. There have been several hiccups however. Please note the foillowing:

1. When I bought intake and exhaust valves for my Brat last year, I bought the B&A ones on closeout as they were really cheap. Also believe these were the only ones listed. The intakes (Japan) came and were all matching, the exhausts (also Japan) were mismatches. I am sure functionally they would have worked, but 2 were shiny SS looking, and two were dark amorphous grey in color. I called them up and it was a hassle to get them to understand why I was being nit-picky about matching valves. Once I spoke to a supervisor, she understood and sent me two replacements. This time, the replacements were physically different. I called them again, they sent me 4 new ones. I was able to match up 4 exhausts out of the 10 I received, and all was well.
   
2. Next, I ordered two front rotors for the Brat, also on closeout. One was made in Italy and one somewhere else, but there were physical differences in the casting, and the weights were different. I sent both back.
   
3. Recently, I ordered rear loaded B&A calipers (for a 87 RX coupe) for my rear disc conversion. One came fine, one with a rusted body. Both were unused, remanufactured and in boxes. They sent me a replacement which is fine. I did not even have to send back the one with the surface body rust.
   
4. I have also received mismatched brake lines from them for our pair of 1994 Altima SE's.
   

Moral of the story is if you have patience to deal with them, then go all out for closeout parts, be prepared for some aggravation. In conversations with them however, I have been notified that in order to receive proper parts, right the first time, order only from normal stock, not closeouts. Closeout parts are leftovers and manufacturers/suppliers such as B&A and Moog change sources in the life cycle of parts they furnish, and it is quite easy to end up with mismatched parts.

 

I continue to use them, but avoid items when the inventory reflects a few closeout pieces left.

[Numbchux]

My personal experience with Rockauto has overall been quite good. There have been several hiccups however. Please note the foillowing:

1. When I bought intake and exhaust valves for my Brat last year, I bought the B&A ones on closeout as they were really cheap. Also believe these were the only ones listed. The intakes (Japan) came and were all matching, the exhausts (also Japan) were mismatches. I am sure functionally they would have worked, but 2 were shiny SS looking, and two were dark amorphous grey in color. I called them up and it was a hassle to get them to understand why I was being nit-picky about matching valves. Once I spoke to a supervisor, she understood and sent me two replacements. This time, the replacements were physically different. I called them again, they sent me 4 new ones. I was able to match up 4 exhausts out of the 10 I received, and all was well.
   
2. Next, I ordered two front rotors for the Brat, also on closeout. One was made in Italy and one somewhere else, but there were physical differences in the casting, and the weights were different. I sent both back.
   
3. Recently, I ordered rear loaded B&A calipers (for a 87 RX coupe) for my rear disc conversion. One came fine, one with a rusted body. Both were unused, remanufactured and in boxes. They sent me a replacement which is fine. I did not even have to send back the one with the surface body rust.
   
4. I have also received mismatched brake lines from them for our pair of 1994 Altima SE's.
   

Moral of the story is if you have patience to deal with them, then go all out for closeout parts, be prepared for some aggravation. In conversations with them however, I have been notified that in order to receive proper parts, right the first time, order only from normal stock, not closeouts. Closeout parts are leftovers and manufacturers/suppliers such as B&A and Moog change sources in the life cycle of parts they furnish, and it is quite easy to end up with mismatched parts.

 

I continue to use them, but avoid items when the inventory reflects a few closeout pieces left.

 

These were all matching part numbers? In that case, it has nothing to do with the distributor (RockAuto), as they do not put the parts in the boxes, they just pull a box with the correct part number, and ship it to you. Sounds like they've been nothing but awesome to you.

 

 

This is like going into a Domino's Pizza, and complaining about the pre-bottled Coke products they carry........oh wait, people do that too

[aba4430]

10-4. Cannot complain about their CS at all. That is why I continue to use them.