GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Other than the seatbelt, which the local stealer wants $400 just for the part, I haven't had to duplicate any repairs. My seatbelts have been found used for $25. There was a recent thread about Subaru gauranteeing the seatbelt for the life of the car. Perhaps your dealer isn't aware of that, or how to go about doing the paperwork for the warrantee. The belt and all components should be covered as it's a serious safety hazard if it should malfunction - doubly so since the auto belts are have been banned for a while due to various chokeing injuries and such. You could contact corporate through the Subaru web site and perhaps they could guide you on this more appropriately than I. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstwagon Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 You're a moron if you think two specific models are indication of the brands as a whole. I can name off Toyota's that sucked just like I can name Subaru's that suck. Try the early 90's toyota V6's for example - they had as many headgasket problems as the phase one 2.5's. Then there was the T100's . As a mechanic that has worked on many brands and many models it's pretty easy to see that it's not simply a matter of brand, but of specific models. Yes the phase one 2.5's suck - which is why I would never own one (unless it was CHEAP). You bought a terrible example and that's on you - just as it would be if you owned a yota with that early V6. GD I agree completely. My brothers Celica was a serious money pit that had constant problems. My sister-in-law's Tercel had lots of little problems and then the engine failed really early dispite regular dealer service. On the other hand, My 91 Legacy is solid as a rock and aside from a quirky air suspension, is a completely trouble free daily driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Preach on man, totally with you on this one. Maybe it's because the Subarus that are currently reaching 200,000 miles are part of the "lemon years" 1998-2002. My god, I know several people who bought sub's in these years and they'll never buy one again because of repairs. I've just about had it with mine. My other car that has 165,000 miles has had far fewer and cheaper maintenece repairs than my 85,000 2002 forester.. I think this is definately something to consider. People are very small-minded when it comes to consumer products and tend to judge the entire brand based on their own small experience. I takes years of mechanicing to realize that each model is a bit different and in some cases it makes a huge difference in overall reliability. Right now those are the years hitting high mileage in the hands of people prone to purchasing new cars without either the ability to work on them on their own, or the knowledge of what those "new models" are going to act like in their "golden years". It's a flighty group of consumers - they buy things on a whim and without proper research or care. Sometimes the engineering just isn't there and sometimes it is - with the fast pace of the modern automotive development cycle things are sometimes pushed to market before they are quite ready and the "new adopter" gets burned. This happens with all brands and just because the current crop of Camry's and Accords are doing well doesn't mean that they will continue in this way ad-infinitum. A friend of mine had an '01 Accord that dumped the automatic tranny at 78k - to the tune of $4500 - am I to assume that all Hondas are crap? I don't think that likely. People are too quick to assume it's not their fualt for buying the peice of crap without doing some research first. Buyer beware I say - do your homework - buy cars that are 3 to 5 years old that you can still find low mileage examples of - and let others be the guinea pigs. It seems like people on this site turn a blind eye when it comes to all the expensive problems these years have. Maybe the newer models are better, but they just havent been around long enough for most to reach that 200,000 mi marker. Not at all - I recognize the problems of the early 2.5 and I tell everyone I speak with who is looking at making a purchase to stay away from them. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I agree completely. My brothers Celica was a serious money pit that had constant problems. My sister-in-law's Tercel had lots of little problems and then the engine failed really early dispite regular dealer service. Exactly - and the funny part is that my friend had a 92 Paseo (sport tuned tercel basically) that is still going (primer spots and almost no maintenance) at like 240k. He gave it to an aunt and her son is still driving it into the ground as far as I know. On the other hand, My 91 Legacy is solid as a rock and aside from a quirky air suspension, is a completely trouble free daily driver. Rock on - just got a 94 myself. Loving the trouble free-ness. Thanks to this board and my ability to think for myself I have a rig that will probably go near 300k and I got it for a song. It's funny how people love to adopt the latest tech only to get burned and then go right back out and do it again GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 You're a moron if you think .... I find this language distasteful and unnecessary. I enjoy this board, and there's lots of good info here. I certainly don't agree with everybody, but I am not qualified to know if anybody is a 'moron'. And I don't see how it helps to be offensive to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Not at all - I recognize the problems of the early 2.5 and I tell everyone I speak with who is looking at making a purchase to stay away from them. GD Problem is, that's a long span of years to be making cars with serious issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't these cars the flagships for the product name? And the inadequete way Subaru delt with HG problems was also another hit against the name. I would tend to think this is a larger factor into the judgement of CR...not a conspiracy theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Problem is, that's a long span of years to be making cars with serious issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't these cars the flagships for the product name? And the inadequete way Subaru delt with HG problems was also another hit against the name. I would tend to think this is a larger factor into the judgement of CR...not a conspiracy theory. Realistically the phase one EJ25's only have about a 20% failure rate for the life of the car. While this IS high, it's nowhere near enough to do a full recall for it. They redesigned the HG's (6 times ) and went out of their way to create a specially formulated additive to correct the ones that had minor leaks. In large part this HAS resolved the issues. It's *just* a HG job - it's not that big of a deal in the scheme of things. The engines run well otherwise and it's really not difficult to replace the HG's, nor are they major mechanical parts. Yes it is unfortunate, but I see many, many phase one 2.5's for sale with 150k+ and nary a leak to be seen on the original gaskets. Naturally you never hear about those though. Cars are expensive, and NEW cars doubly so. If you can't take the heat get on public transportation I say. It's always going to cost you more (time, money, whatever) to adopt new technologies than it is to use proven tech that is a couple teirs down from the top-of-the-line. Businesses have known this for years - take the IT industry for example - businesses don't buy the latest generation of computer equipment. They buy the "best price point" and they don't upgrade software till the kinks are worked out of it. It irks me that people want to early adopt products on shear impulse and then rant about how it's not "perfect". But they never learn and just keep doing it. Sad really. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I find this language distasteful and unnecessary. I enjoy this board, and there lots of good info here. I certainly don't agree with everybody, but I am not qualified to know if anybody is a 'moron'. And I don't see how it helps to be offensive to others. I concur. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I find this language distasteful and unnecessary. I enjoy this board, and there lots of good info here. I certainly don't agree with everybody, but I am not qualified to know if anybody is a 'moron'. And I don't see how it helps to be offensive to others. I concur. Well said. The truth hurts sometimes. Sorry ladys. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 They redesigned the HG's (6 times ) and went out of their way to create a specially formulated additive to correct the ones that had minor leaks. In large part this HAS resolved the issues. I totally disagree. The stop leak patches the real problem long enough to put you past the extended warranty period. An appropriate approach wouldnt have required the stop leak. Just one of many reasons why SOA isnt on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I totally disagree. The stop leak patches the real problem long enough to put you past the extended warranty period. An appropriate approach wouldnt have required the stop leak. Actually the stop leak is a silca compound that if properly used turns to glass under heat and pressure. Works quite well, unfortunately it's difficult for the shop monkeys to use properly. Just one of many reasons why SOA isnt on the list. My point is that there are just as many reasons for Toyota and Honda to not be on the list - I guarantee it. If there aren't now, there sure will be when those damn Prius's start to age and people find out what the batteries for them cost GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 How many people own the old 2.2L ohv Cavaliers? They are the biggest hg eaters I've ever known. Its almost like a religion for them to blow the hg's between 85-95k miles. And you know what people still swear by them... If people would deal with the known hg issue on the phase 1 ej25 when it first shows signs, instead of waiting and driving it for a while there would be no problem. Coolant and water in oil for an extended period of time is very harmful to a motor, and most of the ones you hear of developing a rod knock have had a neglected hg problem in their service record. I found 10 or 11 Outbacks from 96-02 in the junkyard three weeks ago when I went, all but 3 of which were either within 10k of the 200,000 mark or well beyond it. ALL of those cars suffered major collision damage causing their life to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91LegLS Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 There was a recent thread about Subaru gauranteeing the seatbelt for the life of the car. Perhaps your dealer isn't aware of that, or how to go about doing the paperwork for the warrantee. The belt and all components should be covered as it's a serious safety hazard if it should malfunction - doubly so since the auto belts are have been banned for a while due to various chokeing injuries and such. You could contact corporate through the Subaru web site and perhaps they could guide you on this more appropriately than I. GD Is this a recent policy change from Subaru because I recently contacted HQ Subaru and they told me I was SOL because I had an older car. I contacted NHTSA and they asked me to send me my VIN and that they would add me to the list, and that was it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 As far as I know (from when I called my dealer), that lifetime warranty started in 1995. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebisko Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 As far as that moron comment, I'd like to add, I share GD's views on that. If you generalize all of an automotive company into this box because of one bad experience, then you are incredibly short-sighted. Example: My '91 Celica I had, within 3000 miles of my buying it at 165,000ish, the differential started to self destruct, and the engine developed a rod knock. And it wouldn't stay in fifth gear, like many older Celica's with that transmission, that Toyota never bothered recalling. But my brother drove a '94 Ford Tempo (mine now) for 45,000ish miles with changing the oil 3 times in those miles, and overheating many times, one one occasion burning off 2 out of 5 quarts of oil, and 3 quarts of transmission fluid, and requiring a gallon and a half of antifreeze to refill, and (quite amazingly) still runs quite strong. Using the logic GD was referring to, that means that I should always buy Ford, and shout from the mountain tops that Toyota should never be bought under any circumstances. I think we know that I don't actually feel that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 But my brother drove a '94 Ford Tempo (mine now) for 45,000ish miles with changing the oil 3 times in those miles, and overheating many times, one one occasion burning off 2 out of 5 quarts of oil, and 3 quarts of transmission fluid, and requiring a gallon and a half of antifreeze to refill, and (quite amazingly) still runs quite strong. Tempo's are TEH HAWTNESS! I nearly lose my sauce every time I see one - amazing body lines too GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Hi. Moron here. I can generalize about Toyotas because I have owned so many and still do. I have not had a major mechanical problem on any of them. Ever. Current fleet includes a Tacoma. Non maintenance item arguably is an O2 sensor but after 11 years I can give them that. Just the usual brakes etc. Wifes Scion. 2.5 years old. Never back to the dealer for anything except for the free oil changes. My Dad's old PU. He passed away and I just like it. A harmonic balancer went bad. The adhesive on the rubber let go and produced a horrible squeal. Still drove fine. But after 22 years I can give them that. It only had two warranty items. The rear spring sagged when he put on a cap. Toyota put on a HD spring at N/C. And there was a rust through on the side of the bed. Fixed N/C. I have had my share of Corollas and nothing but maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebisko Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Now, neither GD or I called you a moron, you brought up two vehicles and said that, as a whole, Subarus are bad because of one bad experience with Subaru and a good experience with Toyota, at least is what I gathered from your post. I'm just trying to tell you that if by saying all Subarus are bad because of the Phase I HG issues, then you'll be missing out on some great cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 The truth hurts sometimes. Sorry ladys. GD You can add my name to your list of ladies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 My point is that there are just as many reasons for Toyota and Honda to not be on the list - I guarantee it. I garuntee Toyota and Honda didnt have as widespread of a problem as this, for cars that pertain to the current article. And your 20% failure rate is heresay, SOA never relased those numbers. Maybe if SOA did better in the early 2000's they'd be on the list. I dont see why it's so surprising to you. EJ251 - 2.5L 4cyl SOHC 155HP/155ftlbs Impreza '00-'02 Forester '00-'02 YES Gasket problem: external coolant leak Non turbo EJ25 engine. C) EJ252 2.5L SOHC Legacy '00 YES Gasket problem: external coolant leak D) EJ253 2.5L SOHC Impreza '02-'07 Legacy '01-'02 Forrester '99 NO Gasket problem past 2003 Designed to take turbo boost. E) EJ25D 2.5L DOHC Legacy '96-'99 Forester '98-'99 YES Gasket problem: Internal leak/blown F) EJ25E 2.5L DOHC Impreza '99-'01 Forester '99-'00 Legacy '00-'01 YES Gasket problem: Internal/blown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The toyota celica gts introduced as 00MY is known for the bolts in the actuation of the "lift" engagement mechanism to break in the 80K mile range. For a few years toyota did nothing about the problem. They simply looked upon it as abuse from the owner causing the problem. They finally realixed it was a design flaw in 03 and extended the warranty to cover the problem. How is this any different that Subaru's handling of the ej25 head gasket issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 That list surprises me more by the absence of any Volvos. Thanks Ford! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The EJ25, for 4-5 years was a problematic engine (to ~15% of their owners). Before that, Subaru produced the EJ22 for 6 years which was not problematic. Before that, Subaru produced the EA series engines, which were not problematic aside from the EA82 Turbo. So, in Subaru's past 20 years, they've had one engine go bad and that automatically means they're a terrible automaker? Hardly. Every other automaker has had its share of problems. Ford and transmissions, Chevrolet and poorly designed engines, etc. Did you write them off? No. Just because we hear about problems on this forum does not mean they are indicative of every engine. If every EJ25 owner had HG issues, we'd have a lot more problems - not just 2 or 3 posters every two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 So, in Subaru's past 20 years, they've had one engine go bad and that automatically means they're a terrible automaker? No, not necessarily. BUT it does give a legit reason for CR not to promote SOA....especially with the timing of the article. Note neither Ford nor Chevy made the list and CR mentions they think that high mile ranger was a fluke. This is my last post on this subject as I see you guys dont really listen to opposing points of view anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflystyle Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Started this on friday, i come back and i have read tons of opinions so far... looking good lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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