Alaska Style Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I've got an 89' SPFI gl wagon. I just picked up some gen III turbo heads and a complete non turbo Spider MPFI intake manifold. Pretty much a SPFI to MPFI swap. Any advice? I don't have a MPFI ECM or harness yet, If I was gonna get what I need to make it run, where would I go? and what would it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 It's not worth the work involved for 5 HP... unless your plan is to turbo it? Then it's really not worth it - destruction of the bottom end will result in pretty short order with the 9.5:1 comp. You would have to piggy-back the MPFI harness to the existing car's harness, or tear out the dash and frankenstall an XT harness into it. Either way it's a LOT of time and effort for 5 HP. Which is why almost no one has done it. Easier if you start with a turbo car and go *back* to MPFI by installing an SPFI short block and removing the turbo. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 It's not worth the work involved for 5 HP... unless your plan is to turbo it? Then it's really not worth it - destruction of the bottom end will result in pretty short order with the 9.5:1 comp. Arghh - thats the second time just today I have seen something like this on the forums. Yet the only people saying this stuff are the people that haven't done it. Its just not true. Yes, there can be problems with high compression turbo motors, but honestly, the bottom end is really not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I ran my EA82T with no problems at 9.5:1. It was a worth while upgrade for the turbo EA82, just dont over-do it with the boost. However, if you are planning on keeping your EA82 naturally aspirated then I wouldnt bother swapping SPFI to MPFI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbecker Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I ran my EA82T with no problems at 9.5:1. It was a worth while upgrade for the turbo EA82, just dont over-do it with the boost. However, if you are planning on keeping your EA82 naturally aspirated then I wouldnt bother swapping SPFI to MPFI. what does SPFI and MPFI mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 what does SPFI and MPFI mean. SPFI-single port fuel injection (one injector for multiple cylinders) MPFI-multi port fuel injection (one injector per cylinder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Yes, there can be problems with high compression turbo motors, but honestly, the bottom end is really not one of them. By "bottom end" I suppose I should have said "short block" as I was mostly refering to the pistons and rings - the ring lands have been known to collapse, and holes blown in the piston tops. But yes the bottom end proper is usually fine. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 guy here in the cities has now had a weber carb'd EA81, an MPFI EA82, than an ER27 in his Hatch. he's said repeatedly, the swaps were all just as much work as an EJ swap.....but with a fraction of the reliability/power (the ER27 is comparable power to the EJ....but a bigger pain to swap). if you're going to go to that trouble.....do it right the first time, and go EJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Style Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 I know where I can get a turbo @ the exhaust, but nothing else. Is there an electrical difference between the spider intake and the normal MPFI ones? If I find a wrecked gl-10, can I transplant that stuff into my gl with the spider intake and turbo? without getting into the compression and air inlet hose stuff, I've got that taken care of;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I know where I can get a turbo @ the exhaust, but nothing else. Is there an electrical difference between the spider intake and the normal MPFI ones? Yes. They are different - 3 pin vs. 4 pin TPS, and other differences. "Normal" MPFI refers to what exactly? 85 2WD GL's? If I find a wrecked gl-10, can I transplant that stuff into my gl with the spider intake and turbo? without getting into the compression and air inlet hose stuff, I've got that taken care of;) You can do anything you want, but you'll have to be more specific than "GL-10" as that tells us nothing at all about the engine you are thinking of. GL-10's came as turbo's, MPFI, SPFI, etc. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Style Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 ok, so in order to make a spider intake and a turbo run in my 89' gl, Do I need to find a donor car that previously had that intake to pull the harness from? Her's what I've got to work with. 89' SPFI GL wagon complete Spider intake manifold. "fresh" EA-82 short block boored .040 over with 9.0:1 pistons. Gen III turbo heads shaved .010 I can get a turbo that needs rebuilt and the exhaust, air intake tubes and fuel pressure are covered. I just don't have what it takes to make it run, What are my options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 It was bored? Well that's interesting. Questions to ask: 1. Was it bored with a bore plate? If not you run a very high risk of the cylinder sleeves spinning. I'm sure you can imagine how bad that would be. The head gaskets will unseat, and dissasembling the engine (well - it would be pointless anyway) would be difficult as the wrist pins can't be accessed. 2. 9.0:1 pistons would be from a carbed block - were they original to the engine? What type of rings were used? They really aren't up to turbo pressure - you run a high risk of collapsed ring lands, and ANY amount of detonation could easily punch a hole in one. As for the spider intake - the only thing that will work with respect to that is a harness from a later XT Turbo that came with the spider intake. The TPS is different and won't be understood by the non-spider turbo ECU. A non-turbo MPFI ECU from an N/A XT won't understand boost conditions. So your choices are XT Turbo ECU and harness, or aftermarket. Aftermarket would be BY FAR the best as you could control things much better and possibly avoid killing those pistons (for a while). Your turbo and exhaust won't fit unless you also get an engine cross-member from a turbo EA82 car. The N/A cross member has no spot for the downpipe. Basically this is a bad idea - especially for the measly 25 HP you would gain. Sell that stuff to a board member that can use it and put in an EJ22 - it will be easier, 100 times more reliable, and will give you 40 more HP. There's members at legacycentral that have made 170 AWHP from N/A EJ22's without any turbo at all. You'll spend twice as much and get half as far with the EA82T. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Style Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 Dammit!!! you guys win. and yes, I used a deck plate and the pistons/rings are new for a carbed EA82, Know anybody that wants those nice heads and intake? or trade/cash for an EJ22......... Thanks, I'm new to "building" Subaru's and don't know all the rules yet. I've been building big trucks sence forever and wanna try somethin new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Just buy a cheap/wrecked gen 1 legacy - that gives you all the parts you need except the drilled EA82 flywheel, adaptor plate, and misc. hoses, etc. There's a couple members that can make one or both for you. You can mod the flywheel yourself with a die grinder or dremel and a carbide bit. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Dammit!!! you guys win. and yes, I used a deck plate and the pistons/rings are new for a carbed EA82, Know anybody that wants those nice heads and intake? or trade/cash for an EJ22......... Thanks, I'm new to "building" Subaru's and don't know all the rules yet. I've been building big trucks sence forever and wanna try somethin new. I'm interested in the heads. I also happen to have an EJ22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Style Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'm interested in the heads. I also happen to have an EJ22 Dude, perfect timing. What all do you have? or don't have? A complete running setup is ideal....... My number is 907-252-8489, Bo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Dude, perfect timing. What all do you have? or don't have? A complete running setup is ideal....... My number is 907-252-8489, Bo. Its a complete running motor from a 91 Legacy. has the intake and (I think) the exhaust still attached. I pulled it running from a wrecked legacy with the thought of putting it in another legacy I had, but I ended up getting rid of the other legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Style Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Consider it sold, well almost, I don't suppose you pulled the ECM and the car side of the harness and that stuff did ya? Is that wrecked Legacy still around? If not, I'm pretty shure a local salvage yard has a motor-less Legacy somewhere I can get the goods from. You can call me anytime after 5:OOpm. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooparu Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Contact this guy when you get your wirring harness (trust me life will be easier): http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53363 Contact this guy for your adaptor plate and flywheel: http://www.sjrlift.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22 Also refer to the EJ Swap Write-up: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69741 This is all good information to get before starting this project. I've done the swap myself and these were the sources that helped me the most. Also make sure your using an OBD1 Motor (90-94 I believe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 As for the spider intake - the only thing that will work with respect to that is a harness from a later XT Turbo that came with the spider intake. The TPS is different and won't be understood by the non-spider turbo ECU. A non-turbo MPFI ECU from an N/A XT won't understand boost conditions. So your choices are XT Turbo ECU and harness, or aftermarket. Aftermarket would be BY FAR the best as you could control things much better and possibly avoid killing those pistons (for a while). GD I'll start by telling the OP that I agree with GD. Not worth the effort to convert it to MPFI Turbo. But I want to point out for others reading this that a Spider intake TPS, Turbo or NA, will work with the 87 and later non-spider, EA82 ECU. The TPS is physically different, but the potentiometer output in the same range. Spider intake harness will plug right into a non-spider harness/ECU He could use a spider intake from any car, Turbo or NA(slight mods to the NA are required to use with turbo) He could use ECU and harness form any 87+ Turbo EA82. Spider or not. The problem is trying to use a spider intake with the earlier, switch style TPS, from 85 and 86. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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