Stevethefolkie Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Ok - I've read the writeups - I've got the technology (tools) and I'm an experience mechanic (not on Subaru's, but on a variety of different vehicles) - given that - about how much TIME do you think I should set aside to replace the timing belts, idlers and water pump on a 1991 Loyale? I ask because I'd much rather wrangle some time at a friends shop than muck with the car in the driveway. Note - the timing belts have not broken, this is a pre-emptive fix so my daughter isn't left sitting by the side of the road - so everything will be lined up correctly when I take it apart (which should make it convenient for making my own alignment marks that I KNOW are correct and not have to muck around with locating factory marks and that sorta stuff). I'm figuring on pulling the rad (it'll be replaced at the same time) - it's an automatic FWD if that matters. Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Since it's you're first time with a Subaru, I'd say 2-3 hours. It only takes me about an hour to do just the T-belts now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevethefolkie Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Since it's you're first time with a Subaru, I'd say 2-3 hours. It only takes me about an hour to do just the T-belts now though. Thanks very much - I'll add a fudge factor and try to weasle four hours of shop time out of him .... just in case an "aww man, dangit" moment presents itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 being in central PA and having rusty bolts for various items your 4 hours is probably a good thing. thing is you'll want to consider at least having cam seal kits (the seal AND the oring, not just the seal), a crank seal, and oil pump sealant, gasket and o-ring on hand as well. if you're not experiencing any oil loss or HLA (ticking) noise, then maybe you won't need any of that. but usually it's never been touched and at least one of those things needs it after all this time/miles. i usually replace it all at the same time if it's never been done. good call on replacing all of the timing pulleys and tensioners. i prefer the cheap ebay kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 you might think about doing the oil pump "Mickey Mouse" gasket and seal while in that deep. If you do remove the crank timing belt pulleys be sure to keep them in order. The little bolts holding the belt covers on may prove entertaining. The 0-ring on the rad pipe to H20 pump is.... The small 90 deg hose on the H20 pump to the heater feed pipe is.... ... = a good thing to replace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ok - I've read the writeups - I've got the technology (tools) and I'm an experience mechanic (not on Subaru's, but on a variety of different vehicles) - given that - about how much TIME do you think I should set aside to replace the timing belts, idlers and water pump on a 1991 Loyale? For me - 3 hours - open hood to close hood. I remove the radiator - might as well seeing you have to drain the coolant for the WP anyway. For you - probably more like 4 or 5 hours having never done it before. Realistically I always take about 25% to 50% longer the first time, and about 10% to 25% longer the second time. After I've done a job twice it usually continues to get faster by a bit till I reach some kind of equalibrium around the 10th or 20th time. That's what I've come up with numbers wise wrenching everyday... Note - the timing belts have not broken, this is a pre-emptive fix so my daughter isn't left sitting by the side of the road - so everything will be lined up correctly when I take it apart (which should make it convenient for making my own alignment marks that I KNOW are correct and not have to muck around with locating factory marks and that sorta stuff). Sorry to say this just won't work. The cams are under tension from the valves, and will not hold a solid position once the belts are removed. They WILL move and there's really nothing you can do about it short of making a special tool to keep them stationary at whatever point they happen to be at. The cams are under a LOT of tension. They will "jump" as you turn them when the valves force cam lobes to spin. So much tension you will probably injure yourself if you try to move them by hand. I use a 3/8" breaker bar with a 10mm on the cam sprocket bolts to turn them where I want them. Just put one straight up, and one straight down and throw the belts on (with the center valve timing mark aligned on the flywheel). Then put the #1 cylinder at TDC compression then back off to 20 BTDC on the flywheel marks. Point the disty at the #1 plug tower. Should fire right up and require only minimal adjustment (if any) if you do it that way. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 experienced people can do it within 2 hours. if you are new entirely then give yourself the whole afternoon. if you really get into it with seals, (and if you had to do head gaskets) give yourself the weekend. remove the clutch fan and then the radiator. you will thank yourself when you go to remove the timing belt covers. the radistor doesn not need to come out, but like they said take it out anyway for the room if you have to lose the coolant for the WP anyway. now there will be a whole debacle of wether or not to leave the timing belt covers off. if you dont go as far as the cam seals and oil pump seal right at this moment i would leave them off, both outer and inner. this way you can get to everything easier. and if you did leave them off, the next TB job will take no more than 20 minutes with 2 tools, (well 3 if you count the ratchet and deep 12mm as 2) and save you from removing the crank pulley and the dipstick. and the water pump and oil pump can be serviced again with ease. i gouess you can argue the notion, but after all i wrote the book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98obster Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 being in central PA and having rusty bolts for various items your 4 hours is probably a good thing. thing is you'll want to consider at least having cam seal kits (the seal AND the oring, not just the seal), a crank seal, and oil pump sealant, gasket and o-ring on hand as well. if you're not experiencing any oil loss or HLA (ticking) noise, then maybe you won't need any of that. but usually it's never been touched and at least one of those things needs it after all this time/miles. i usually replace it all at the same time if it's never been done. good call on replacing all of the timing pulleys and tensioners. i prefer the cheap ebay kits. Any problems with this kit on the 98 imprezas 2.2 sohc? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-Master-Timing-Belt-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33625QQihZ013QQitemZ230209464301QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimator Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 thing is you'll want to consider at least having cam seal kits (the seal AND the oring, not just the seal), a crank seal, and oil pump sealant, gasket and o-ring on hand as well. if you're not experiencing any oil loss or HLA (ticking) noise, then maybe you won't need any of that. If I replace all those things when I get around to doing my TB, reckon my oil leak problem will go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Be careful in making sure you get the correct water pump - there are 2 choices, one for vehicles with ac and one for non ac cars. The difference is reflected in the stand off height of the drive pulley. The difference is a few mm. I have used the shorter pumps on cars that needed the taller pump by using small washers to gain the offset. So a search for more info. ... water pump on a 1991 Loyale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 If I replace all those things when I get around to doing my TB, reckon my oil leak problem will go away? Well, it will solve thoseleaks. There are a few other sources. The oil pan most notably. The Power steering pump can leak and dribble down everywhere as well. That should be ATF, red, easy to tell. Also the O-ring and sealant between the cam tower and head can leak. The headgaskets even in some cases can leak externally. But the seals are the more common causes and always a good idea to do with the T-belts, waterpump, and oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 If I replace all those things when I get around to doing my TB, reckon my oil leak problem will go away? They are notorious for leaking. So are the cam cover seals. Also the oil passage that supplies the HLA passes through the headgasket and the seam between the head and the cam carrier. The o-rings get hard and don't seal, thus leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Lazy Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 ...removing the crank pulley... I just want to make sure that the crank pulley bolt is Right hand thread. Mine is being very difficult. I PB blasted it overnight, still nothing. I hope im not tightening it. LOL, I just did the 'Miles Fox' method and put a ratchet on the crank bolt and wedged it against the skid plate, took the rotor wire off and turned the motor. It broke the socket. What am I doing wrong??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 LOL, I just did the 'Miles Fox' method and put a ratchet on the crank bolt and wedged it against the skid plate, took the rotor wire off and turned the motor. It broke the socket. What am I doing wrong??? It's regular right threaded. The problerm i you ued a ratchet. Use a 1/2 drive breaker bar and 22mm socket. If thi is a manual tran vehichle, you can try this. Put it in 4wd, 4th gear, with the e brake on tight. now the enigne i held imobile by the drivetrain. Now you can really reef on that sucker. Put a 4 foot pipe over the breaker bar if you have to. Once it pops, it'll be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Lazy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Thx Gloyale I went and bought a nice breaker bar and it worked great. Biggest PITA water pump i ever did. Maybe im just spoiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Thx Gloyale I went and bought a nice breaker bar and it worked great. Biggest PITA water pump i ever did. Maybe im just spoiled. Try a 95 Blazer with a 4.3:dead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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