Caution new atf

[The Dude]

I have 2006 Forester, with the "new' ATF for the 4EAT AT, Subaru dropped the requirement for a drain and refill every 30,000 miles. Subaru now requires an "inspection" of the fluid every 30,000 miles.

 

I check my car's ATF once a month, and it's a good thing that I do. At 60,000 miles the ATF suddenly turned brown, and gave off a horrible smell. There was no warning. The car had never been used for towing, and it spends 90% of the time loafing at moderate highways speeds. In fact, I make it a practice to slip into neutral at stoplights. This tranny has been babied.

 

Anyway, I had my doubts when Subaru dropped the 30,000 mile AT drain and refill. Now, for me at least, those doubts have been confirmed. I am going on a 30,000 mile AT drain and refill schedule. The AT is too expensive to screw around with.

[Rooster2]

"suddenly turned brown" surprises me. In my experience ATF turns brown on a gradual basis over time and miles driven. Any chance you let someone drive your Subie without your supervision, like a teenage boy, who drove it like a maniac, and over heated the trany fluid?

[The Dude]

"suddenly turned brown" surprises me. In my experience ATF turns brown on a gradual basis over time and miles driven. Any chance you let someone drive your Subie without your supervision, like a teenage boy, who drove it like a maniac, and over heated the trany fluid?

 

No, I'm the only one who drives my Forester. I had a 1999 Forester, which I used for towing, and I never had a problem with the AT or the ATF (200,000 miles).

 

The reason I started this thread is because I'm shocked at the rapid deterioration of th ATF. I supect that Subaru was too optimistic when they designated their new ATF as a "lifetime" fluid. AFAIK, the "new" ATF is pretty much the same as the "old" ATF with a few new additives.

 

Who knows, maybe my AT has a problem and the ATF is overheating? But my AT seems to be working perfectly, so far (70,000 miles). This is just a "heads up". This maybe just one isolated incident, or maybe the new ATF

isn't quite as tough as Subaru thought.

[OB99W]

If the fluid smelled ''burned'', it's likely there was slippage, whether it was noticed or not. At this point, full replacement (not just pan drain/refill) and a new filter would probably be prudent.

[ron917]

Saw a brief blurb (TSB or Endwrench article) that the new ATF fades quickly and has a distinct odor, but that doesn't indicate a problem. You can't go by color alone - the red/pink is just a dye, and it can fade depending on what the oil manufacturer used.

 

So don't panic yet. If you are concerned, get a sample and send it off for a used oil analysis. That's the only way to know what is really going on.

 

The ATF in my 2007 Outback with 29K miles has faded to amber - it looks just like plain, undyed oil. It smells different than other ATFs, but not burnt - kind of sweet.

 

I'll be doing a drain/fill for the 30K service, and I would recommend that to anyone. There's no such thing as "lifetime" fluid when you expect 200,000 miles out of your car.

[EVOthis]

I have never heard of Subaru changing there ATF for the 4EAT's...I know all the 5EAT's take the special juice in the grey bottle....

[ron917]

Newer 4 speed autos also need the new ATF-HP. Not sure what year the change occurred. My 2007 owner's manual says that for 4 speeds Dexron III can be used TEMPORARILY, but there will be an increase in noise and vibration. Otherwise, the ATF-HP is recommended.

[erik litchy]

Newer 4 speed autos also need the new ATF-HP. Not sure what year the change occurred. My 2007 owner's manual says that for 4 speeds Dexron III can be used TEMPORARILY, but there will be an increase in noise and vibration. Otherwise, the ATF-HP is recommended.

 

ive always been skeptical that these ATF are really needed over a aftermarket synthetic one like Mobil or amsoil. i would prefer that extra edge in heat resistance.

[ron917]

There's more to it than conventional vs. synthetic. The additives, such as friction modifiers, are dependant on the design and materials used in the transmission. That's why there are so many types of ATF. Using the wrong ATF may cause problems, anything from simple harsh shifting to destroying seals and friction surfaces.

 

There are a lot of "universal" ATFs out there. I'm having a hard time finding an aftermarket fluid that very clearly states that it meets Subaru ATF-HP spec (not just Subaru ATF, that's the old stuff).

[davebugs]

Here's my thread about similar dirty fluid from last year including pics:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87092&highlight=fluid

 

I still have these old samples laying around.

 

I spent quality time with the Wolf's Head engineer to make sure that the Universal Synthetic ATF met the specs for this car and felt comfortable that it did.

 

If you need his contact info PM me.

 

I've taken to checking the fluid level, and draining it, measuring it, and adding the same amount back every other oil change. The color is definately improving.

[erik litchy]

There's more to it than conventional vs. synthetic. The additives, such as friction modifiers, are dependant on the design and materials used in the transmission. That's why there are so many types of ATF. Using the wrong ATF may cause problems, anything from simple harsh shifting to destroying seals and friction surfaces.

 

There are a lot of "universal" ATFs out there. I'm having a hard time finding an aftermarket fluid that very clearly states that it meets Subaru ATF-HP spec (not just Subaru ATF, that's the old stuff).

 

destroy seals? i think heat is the main cause of seal failures. its not hard to have a little plasticizer added to a batch to help the seals. if its shifting harsh, the viscosity is too thick, and im sure that only the ford type F is that thick. i may not be an expert but im pretty sure that al OEM use a non syntheric base and i think thats the main weakness.

[EVOthis]

Newer 4 speed autos also need the new ATF-HP. Not sure what year the change occurred. My 2007 owner's manual says that for 4 speeds Dexron III can be used TEMPORARILY, but there will be an increase in noise and vibration. Otherwise, the ATF-HP is recommended.

 

Wow...this is news to me...every single tech (including our senior master tech) where I work puts the conventional white bottle of ATF in every 4EAT we do flushes on (thousands of them) and have NEVER had a problem...Quite Obviously you can put the ATF HP in the 4EAT's however I dont see a problem using the the reg. ATF plus its much cheaper...I know they changed the coolant to the super blue long life coolant in the 08 STI and all 09 models...

Edited April 29, 2009 by EVOthis

[ron917]

EVOthis, my dealer said the same thing. But the engineers who designed the transmission recommend something else. And that something else is documented in the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual. I'll be following the books.

[nipper]

I have 2006 Forester, with the "new' ATF for the 4EAT AT, Subaru dropped the requirement for a drain and refill every 30,000 miles. Subaru now requires an "inspection" of the fluid every 30,000 miles.

 

I check my car's ATF once a month, and it's a good thing that I do. At 60,000 miles the ATF suddenly turned brown, and gave off a horrible smell. There was no warning. The car had never been used for towing, and it spends 90% of the time loafing at moderate highways speeds. In fact, I make it a practice to slip into neutral at stoplights. This tranny has been babied.

 

Anyway, I had my doubts when Subaru dropped the 30,000 mile AT drain and refill. Now, for me at least, those doubts have been confirmed. I am going on a 30,000 mile AT drain and refill schedule. The AT is too expensive to screw around with.

 

 

Exactly. Fluid is cheap compared to the unit itself. There are many reasons why a MFG tries to extend the service interval, some good, some bad. I dont know the logic behind this move, but longer fluid change intervals usually shorten the life of whatever it is protecting.

 

nipper

[EVOthis]

EVOthis, my dealer said the same thing. But the engineers who designed the transmission recommend something else. And that something else is documented in the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual. I'll be following the books.

 

Fair enough... its your vehicle do what you like......Im just mentioning it...

[pete san]

FYI, if you filter the fluid better, it will last longer and do a better job of keeping the trans and fluid cleaner. Cleaner fluid runs cooler, and you will get more miles out of it. I replaced the big can in my Legacy, (a service fix in the early 90's) with a Magnefine filter, (it goes in the cooler line). I got it at Broncograveyard.com. These filters are used by a lot of the transmission remanufacturers. I'm a big fan of clean fluids!

 

PS- I also put one in the low pressure line on my power steering.