Ever Victorious Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 First, the usual preface: Not actually acting on anything yet, just collecting data at this point. The possibility of de-4WDing the BRAT. Am I using it off-road? I've made it clear that I'm not. Am I going to use it in the snow? If I'm not using it off-road, the answer to that is probably also a resounding "no". So... that said... the complexity of taking an EA82 FWD trans and putting it in the BRAT? Besides the need to modify the crossmembers A La Jerry, what else might be needed? And how much of the rear end stuff can be pulled and retired without causing functional issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 why not just pull the rear diff, rear axles, and rear output driveshaft to the rear and be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just get two rear axles at the junkyard and disconnect the axle and innner joint and use the outer joints to hold the rear wheels on. Then all you need to do is remove the rear diff (or leave it on after you removed the drive shaft). It should get you a small decrease in gas consumption. Sell the original rear axles to recover some of your costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just get two rear axles at the junkyard and disconnect the axle and innner joint and use the outer joints to hold the rear wheels on. Then all you need to do is remove the rear diff (or leave it on after you removed the drive shaft). It should get you a small decrease in gas consumption. Sell the original rear axles to recover some of your costs. Never having removed axles (or joints from axles) before, what unusual torture devices (tools) would I need to do this? why not just pull the rear diff, rear axles, and rear output driveshaft to the rear and be done. I could for now, but 2nd gear is starting to go on the gearbox so it's not a permanent solution to just leave the 4 speed in there. I'm pretty sure I could find an EA81 5sp gearbox easy but with the possibility of going EJ, the EA82 FWD gearbox is a better choice, I'm guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3eyedwagon Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just get two rear axles at the junkyard and disconnect the axle and innner joint and use the outer joints to hold the rear wheels on. Then all you need to do is remove the rear diff (or leave it on after you removed the drive shaft). It should get you a small decrease in gas consumption. Sell the original rear axles to recover some of your costs. Why would he need to do that? He could just pull the rear axles completely. Just yank the axles (Hammer, roll pin punch, and a jack), the moustache bar, the diff, and the driveline. You just need to find a really good trans plug for the rear output on the trans. Or leave the driveline in, and put a propeller on the end of it! Best idea EVER!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Im going to be doing this to my Brat... but 2WD as RWD... not FWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Good to know I'm not the only blasphemer then... hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Rear axles are pinned at both ends, so nothing special needs to be done, just pull them. IIRC, the EA81s had a one-piece driveshaft, so you'll need a plug or different transmission. For the life of me, though, I can't think of one good reason to do this. I can understand converting to RWD, I did that to my Hatch. But FWD? Especially in a Brat- That's a lot of work to take a step backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku-Sama Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 yea FWD on a car that was previously 4wd is pretty blasphmous. i'll still give you a hand in the yard if i still can though, they want $50.50 for a trans with a $9.50 core ($9.50 why bother?) if it was temporary while you fixed the 4wd then thats another story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Rear axles are pinned at both ends, so nothing special needs to be done, just pull them.IIRC, the EA81s had a one-piece driveshaft, so you'll need a plug or different transmission. For the life of me, though, I can't think of one good reason to do this. I can understand converting to RWD, I did that to my Hatch. But FWD? Especially in a Brat- That's a lot of work to take a step backwards. mileage, performance. if you actually remove the driveshaft, rear diff, and axles....that's a lot of rotating mass (not to mention it's weight independent of the rotating factor). yea, driveshaft, rear diff, axles, mustache bar.....all can be removed. you might want to still put the outer DOJ cups on the spindles, as they help keep dust/dirt out of the bearings. although, I really don't understand how not offroading means not driving in the snow :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 It means this car is not my daily driver. It may serve as one in the short term, but if I have to give up the Kia, you can rest assured I will buy a cheap Legacy to drive around for the winter rather than risking some other idiot hitting the BRAT. Hence it will never see snow. I have a number of reasons for looking into this, many of which the 4x4/offroad enthusiasts here would not understand. That's ok... I shrug at people who lift their Subarus and put 28" tires under them... Fine for them, not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 What if you just replaced the tranny with the FWD unit, pull the drive shaft, and leave the diff and axles alone. Theres no real reason to remove them is there? That way if you or someone else wants the re-4x4 it, you just need the trans and shaft. With some mods I bet you could make use of a 2x4 setup back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 What if you just replaced the tranny with the FWD unit, pull the drive shaft, and leave the diff and axles alone. Theres no real reason to remove them is there? That way if you or someone else wants the re-4x4 it, you just need the trans and shaft. With some mods I bet you could make use of a 2x4 setup back there. mileage, performance. if you actually remove the driveshaft, rear diff, and axles....that's a lot of rotating mass (not to mention it's weight independent of the rotating factor). if you leave all the weight in there, you might as well just put it in FWD. removing them isn't hard, and isn't permanent. and seriously, if all you remove is the driveshaft.....there are almost zero benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Ok... we've thoroughly covered the various routes of what to/not to do with the rear end stuff, but what of the other question? Other than Jerry's EA82 conversion kit, what else would be necessary to hook up an EA82 FWD trans behind the EA81? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 the FWD doesn't add any complexity over an EA82 4WD swap does it? it's the same conversion as anyone that's ever put an EA82 trans in an EA81 or put EA82 stuff in a brat before, right? There should be threads on here or the USRM about swapping EA82 stuff into an EA81? I converted my Legacy Lsi (in my sig) to FWD. It was easy..and I had to do it with an automatic and also castrating the EJ25 to an EJ18. Remove the driveshaft, rear diff, rear axles and use the outer cups off the axle to retain inside the rear knuckle. Only two bolts hold the rear driveshaft in place - at the carrier bearing (oh sorry, at least on an EA82, ER27, and EJ stuff - i guess eA81 is the same...some of those even have just a one piece shaft right?) Anyway - two bolts roughly. On EA82's there are 3 bolts holding the rear diff in place - one up top, two on the mustache bar. Then knock the pins out on the outer end of the axles and the whole deal drops off. That's only 5 bolts and two pins to have the whole mess on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Last time I checked, the rear axles had nothing to do with the wheels other that turning them. No holding on dust shields, keeping bearings together like the fronts, etc. Just knock the pins out and go. I think I remember reading somewhere that the EA82 FWD 5speed is the exact same as the EA81 unit, so parts should be available to just bolt it all up. I'm just afraid that the amount of work you're looking at isn't going to get you the gains you want. You might gain 1-2mpg on the highway, 2-3mpg in town, and .1seconds in the quarter mile, the MPG gains would be the same with some sort of form fitting tonneau cover on the bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAugur33 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Without commenting on the 4wd to Fwd swap, I have to ask why the EA82 FWD swap???? Would a 1.6 fwd tranny pop in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 I think I remember reading somewhere that the EA82 FWD 5speed is the exact same as the EA81 unit, so parts should be available to just bolt it all up. I'd like confirmation on this from more than one source, if anyoe else knows for sure. The 4WD is significantly enough different between the 81 and 82 to warrant modifications, writeups, etc... But if it IS the same unit, I know where two of them are. *snip the rest of the quote* Now if everyone could please skip questioning my motives and just stick to the mechanical aspects of the questions, please? I seem to recall asking HOW to do something, not WHY I would/would not want to do somethng. I have to ask why the EA82 FWD swap???? Would a 1.6 fwd tranny pop in? 1) Seems to be the most readily available 5-speed FWD. 2) As I understand, the EA71 has a narrower bellhousing, and thus the trans/motors cannot be swapped between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) EA82 2WD 5 speed's are the exact same transmission as the EA81 2WD 5 speed's. Across the board they are identical. Additionally, since the EA82 continued right on using the EA81 2WD tranny, the 4 speed clutch disc you already have will slide right onto the 2WD's input shaft. No changes needed. You will need an EA81 2WD transmission cross-member. The stud for the 2WD 5 speed shift linkage is already present. They made 2WD Brat's in europe and what you are doing is entirely bolt-in. It can be reversed and you aren't hurting the body of the car. I don't see an issue here. GD Edited June 11, 2009 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Thank you, GD... I can always rely on you to get right to the point of what I need. So looks like I need to find a crossmember. Should be easy enough. Will the lower (rubber) boot from the 4 speed's shifter work with the FWD 5-speed, or am I also going to have to source a shift boot? I already know I'm going to need to find the cover panel for where the 4WD selector is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 So looks like I need to find a crossmember. Should be easy enough. Yeah - cross-member and mounts. Will the lower (rubber) boot from the 4 speed's shifter work with the FWD 5-speed, or am I also going to have to source a shift boot? I already know I'm going to need to find the cover panel for where the 4WD selector is. Should work without issue. The 4WD shift boot (and the hole in the floor pan) are significantly larger than the boot and hole for the 2WD so it should work without issue. There will be a hole in the boot where the 4WD shift linkage was - just tie it shut with some cord. The cover panel will snap right in. The center console peice is the same for 2WD's so the panel is interchangable. For the sake of the Brat being easily convertible back to 4WD I wouldn't bother changeing the radio console out - the floor-pan won't allow it to be installed without major modifications. It isn't neccesary either. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku-Sama Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 too bad that EA 81 is 4wd, mabe they rolled another one out by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 After the pain I went through to get the stereo installed and the damn antenna replaced, I am NOT taking the radio console off... EVER again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) Good to know I'm not the only blasphemer then... hehe Yes, Some Swaps like That had been Done, but I See that the People that Choose to make from a 4WD subie, just 2WD; do Preffer to Switch to a RWD Config instead of FWD. For Example, in my Country That is Widely done in Leones and Loyales, look Carefully at this Picture I Took of a Local Loyale Sedan: That`s a Just 2WD one but RWD ... I Like the Idea of get Rid of those FWD Axles... ...Forever. All that GD Said is Absolutely True, But Those: ...They made 2WD Brat's in europe and what you are doing is entirely bolt-in. It can be reversed and you aren't hurting the body of the car. I don't see an issue here. GD 2WD Brats did Came here to Latin America Too... Not Only Europe. Good Luck! Kind Regards. Edited June 11, 2009 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku-Sama Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 the manual i have (Haynes) says a few things about the axles. the outer CV joints are supposedly un able to seperate unless you have a special tool but the inners have a pin to knock out a spring pin with a punch to dis connect it from the transmission. dont know how accurate this thing is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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