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Can't bust crank pulley bolt (just a whine)


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29 replies to this topic

#1 NorseKode

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 04:09 PM

Let's see.....
'91 ea82 loyale 5spd 4wd

The idea was, I'd replace my leaky head gaskets today. While I was at it, t-belts and all upper engine gaskets and seals.

But I can't get the damned bolt off the crank pulley. Not for love or money. I put it in 5th and used a brake pedal depressor, then got a 1/2" breaker bar and two foot cheater pipe.

The engine turned at the same rate as the bolt head. Not a big help.

Hosed the area with wd-40.

Dropped the A/C condenser four or five inches, removed the hood latch and the vertical support bar for same, reached through the grill with a wobble socket, 24" extension, and 1/2" impact wrench.

Nothing. All sound and fury, no progress.

Ooookay, more WD, and switch to the 3/4" impact wrench. No idea how much torque this thing kicks out, but it certainly dances in my hands. Which is quite a bit more action than the bolt head exhibited.

Bupkis, negative nada.

Got a little ticked off and started going backwards and forwards with 3/4", looking to break the 'sieze'. My brain kicked in after three or four switches. If I break that bolt head, I will be truly frigged.

So. Can't pull the middle timing cover (belt are in good shape, which is a good thing, since I can't change them), but I can pull the valve covers, cam cases, and heads..... so the project goes on.

That crank bolt thing bothers me, though.

Oh well, End of whine. :boohoo: Thanks for stopping by.

Kalo

#2 archemitis

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 04:45 PM

stick a breaker on your lalf inch drive. put car in neutral. use starter to break bolt loose. works everytime.
or you need a bigger impact

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 04:50 PM

Yep - bump the starter - generally nerveracking, but it does almost always work.

GD

#4 edrach

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 05:03 PM

Disconnect the spark from the distributor first. You don't actually want the engine to start.

#5 NorseKode

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 05:51 PM

I will save that for a day when I have two vehicles. For today, I'm just going to swap out the passenger side stuff and various o-rings.

Yeah, I guess the starter ought to do the job, but what if the last ******** to wrench on this vehicle crosthreaded or otherwise welded the crank bolt in place? Then the starter breaks the bolt head off, and the scope of the project changes drastically. You'd have to pull the block (at minimum) to drill that turkey out.

No thanks. This thing is back to 500 miles a week on Monday. I actually started out wanting to fix just the oil leak in pass. side head gasket, but kit came with both sides and project just sort of gathered steam from there. So I'm just going to downshift to the original parameters for success and wait till I pick up another car (or encounter catastrophic failure on this one) before using the ol' bump wrench.

Cheers.
Kalo

#6 Dennis ex24

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 06:11 PM

kamikaze starter bump...pull the coil wire of the disty so the engine doesnt fire up

ive even used the reverse bump to get the bolt back on, never failed...a 22mm socket on a 1/2inch ratchet and a pipe sleeved over it, resting on the battery tray area on on the ground. for reverse, use the ground.

very interesting if you do it wrong, have had a ratchet end up in my neighbors yard once.

#7 archemitis

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 06:35 PM

the only way to do it, when you are in the middle of nowhere. just go for it. just cuz your impact didnt do it, doesnt mean the starter wont do it. thats a big bolt, your starter would bind, before it broke it.(i would think). it is how i have done every subaru i have owned.

but sometimes it is better to play it safe.

#8 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 06:50 PM

eyep, that's what I usually do.
A trick for stubborn ones is to take out the spark plug, and stuff the cylinder full of rope or string.
Be sure to leave some hanging out.
Some guys on the board talk about using a screwdriver/special tool thru the inspection hole to hold the teeth of the starter gear.

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 06:50 AM

have had a ratchet end up in my neighbors yard once.



:lol:

GD

#10 NorseKode

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 01:26 PM

ive even used the reverse bump to get the bolt back on, never failed...a 22mm socket on a 1/2inch ratchet and a pipe sleeved over it, resting on the battery tray area on on the ground. for reverse, use the ground.



And how, exactly, did you get the engine to turn the other way? It seems (if possible) likely this is how this sucker was put on. Given the 500 ft lbs that 3/4" gun delivers, and the torque spec of 79 ft lbs AllData recommends, I'd say the last wrench on this thing was a little extreme.

Kalo:-)

#11 NorseKode

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 01:37 PM

You rewired the firing order, didn't you?

#12 GLCraig

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 01:57 PM

No, No, No

Cranking the engine over Clockwise and holding the bolt stationary has the same affect as holding the engine stationary and turning the bolt counter clockwise. The bolt should come loose. Also your not using the torque the engine puts out for this. You are using the torque of the starter, which is more, then the 79ft-lbs. Also remember to unplug the coil wire. You don't want the engine to start because you're likely to end up having the breaker bar tear-up the radiator.

#13 Skip

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 03:08 PM

Criag, read Dennis's post, he was refering to tightening the crank bolt.
My guess is he put the car in a forward gear, propped the breaker bar on the frame and pushed it backward. (manual tranny only trick)

As for using the kamikasi trick on this one, if that 3/4" impact had full air pressure, I'd be afraid of stripping the ring gear trying it.
If the 3/4" impact had full air pressure (125 psi) no extention and an impact socket - and it still didn't budge
one word - ZOIX!


#14 NorseKode

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 06:10 PM

If the 3/4" impact had full air pressure (125 psi) no extention and an impact socket - and it still didn't budge


About 135 psi, a 12" extension, and a wobble socket. Still, though... I'd expect at least a couple of hundred ft lbs with this setup before full twist and bounce resets the hammers.

I hadn't really thought about the torque limiting factors of the add-ons before you mentioned it, though.

Thanks for

My guess is he put the car in a forward gear, propped the breaker bar on the frame and pushed it backward. (manual tranny only trick)




Kalo

#15 MilesFox

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 10:55 PM

make sure you butt the breaker bar against the DRIVER side, so it dont fly over real fast. i about took my own head off that way.

it will work, and is not dangerous if you use common sense

i have had to fix timing belts off the side of the road.

or use a breaker and a hammer, quick sharp blows to break free from the motor's static inertia

#16 myossfeece

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 11:10 PM

when replacing the seals on the fourdoor, and the oil pump we had used the starter to break the bolt lose twice and it worked real good both times. Once done the bolt would occassionaly work its way lose and throw the crank pulley out of alignment knockin off my belts, but luckily the bolt stayed in the pulley and didn;t fly off in the road. This happened to me about twice and then finally after putting the car in lo-range fifth gera with the e-brake set I was finally able to torque it down and haven't had any trouble since then. good luck with it.

#17 torxxx

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Posted 25 December 2003 - 07:13 PM

Believe it or not, I put the breaker bar against the elec. fan shroud. It dented it in a lil bit, but it didnt pinch the fan against the side of the shroud..

As for tightening, jam a screw driver in the flywheel teeth, and then use a lil elbow grease and tighten to 79 lbs...

#18 DerFahrer

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Posted 25 December 2003 - 09:30 PM

The engine turned at the same rate as the bolt head. Not a big help.



The idea was, I'd replace my leaky head gaskets today


Could this be the problem? If your headgaskets are blown and your engine has no compression, then (if it's an MT) putting the vehicle in gear will do you little good. What you're doing there is trying to use the compression of the engine to hold it still. You would have to MASH the brakes real good to get it loose. You might need someone to put their body weight on the brakes for you...

#19 rgaff_77

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Posted 25 December 2003 - 09:37 PM

Originally posted by NorseKode
Yeah, I guess the starter ought to do the job, but what if the last ******** to wrench on this vehicle crosthreaded or otherwise welded the crank bolt in place? Then the starter breaks the bolt head off, and the scope of the project changes drastically. You'd have to pull the block (at minimum) to drill that turkey out.



You wouldn't necessarilly have to pull the block IF the bolt head twisted off. On the road trip to Washington with Miles Fox, we had the bolt from the tensioner pulley for the timing belts twist off flush with the motor. We pulled the radiator and used a drill to drill a hole directly in the center of the bolt. We then used a bolt extractor to remove it. It was successful and didn't have any more problems with it. Although the starter shouldn't have enough torgue to twist the bolt head off.

#20 oddcomp

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Posted 25 December 2003 - 11:05 PM

for my own experience a stout screw driver wedged in the teeth on the flywheel/flex plate depending on your tranny

and a nice breaker bar / pipe assisted ratchet seems to work well and safer for me

by the way also from experience when you get excited your done and in a hurry to try out your handi work
please remember the screwdriver it makes a nasty noise
lol

#21 archemitis

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 09:50 AM

now thats some crackhead advice. i like all the teeth on my flywheel, just the way they are.

#22 torxxx

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 06:04 PM

Originally posted by archemitis
now thats some crackhead advice. i like all the teeth on my flywheel, just the way they are.



cRACK HEAD ADvicE? wtf...... explain to me how your going to break a tooth off the flywheel just by tightening down the bolt to 79 pounds?

I'd be more worried about starter grinding the teeth then fuking one up with a screw driver

#23 oddcomp

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 08:36 PM

crack head advice huh ..
now i see why some people are taking vacations from the board
sorry for trying to help

#24 Chris W.

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 10:18 AM

What about busting the nut in two with a "nut splitter". Then
you could clean up the bolt threads and start over with a new nut. Just my .02...

Good luck,
Chris

#25 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 10:42 AM

Chris, it's a bolt, not a nut.




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