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H.I.D. Lights on Loyale - Yes or Not? ... Why?


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#1 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 03:44 AM

Hi All !!!

I use to Drive too much during Night Times, sometimes during huge Rainstorms. To drive on the Roads at Night`s Depts can be Dangerous due to the many problems we got on our Developin` country, like Huge Potholes on the Roads, not enough Signals, Some Roads are just Ground (no Pavement at all) and many beasts (Like Cows, Horses, Donkeys, and Drunk Drivers) are ussually Crossing the Roads very fast without any care... (Yes, Honduras is called "The Alice Country" due to its "Wonderland" Features... :-\ ...) ...so, a Good Light Beam is very Nessesary here, to reach your destination alive.

Sometime ago I`ve posted about Changin` the 9004 Halogen Bulbs (Ussually 45 Watts Low / 65 Watts High - Wider Range) with 9104 Bulbs (80 W Low / 100 W High - Larger Range)



See this Pic for Reference:

Posted Image

But they became scarse here, as many Good Quality Parts... now only low quality chinese parts are widely avaliable...

So, this is the Light Pattern I have with my Subies (Almost Identical on Both) using the Headlamps on Low then on High Beams, and Then High Beams with the UnderBumper Halogens...



Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

So, You`ll clearly notice that the UnderBumper Halogens are Much More Brighter than the Headlamp units. I use 100 Watts Bulbs on the UnderBumper ones, also the HeadLamp ones are suppossed to be the same 100 Watts too... but UnderBumber ones are Much Brighter, very much Difference.


I`ve Already Checked the Connectios, Relays, etc... every single Thing is just Fine, so I think that those 9104 Bulbs (or 9004) aren`t Enough for those huge Headlamps... I don`t Like that the UnderBumper Small Halogens gives me the only "Good View" of the Road, as the main HeadLamps looks weak. But that seems to be normal on those 9004 / 9104 Headlamps if you Compare their Brightness with Modern Standards.



Time to Upgrade to H.I.D.`s ?


I Don`t wanna Hurt anybody`s eyes with Extra Illumination Power on the Main HeadLamps, so if I go H.I.D, I`ll Adjust `em to the Best; I think I Really Need that Extra Power, for Safety.




So, here goes the Questions:

- If I Will Do the H.I.D. Conversion, Which Kind of Light Colour is Better? I Really Dislike Blue Coloured Light, `cos it Seems to be "Absorved" by the Wet Pavement... Too Dark to be Safe, so: 6500K, 8000K?


- Here in the Market are easier to Find 8000K Kits... They seems to be not too Blue, around "White" ... What do you Think about?


- If I Do the Conversion, I`ll Need more Space to Place the Ballasts, so the Overfill Plastic Tank for the Radiator, Should be Moved... Any Advice?




Any other Idea / Suggestion \ Advice is Welcome!


Thank you, Best Regards & Blessings!


JesZeK :burnout:



#2 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 01:10 PM


- If I Do the Conversion, I`ll Need more Space to Place the Ballasts, so the Overfill Plastic Tank for the Radiator, Should be Moved... Any Advice?


Maybe stick the ballasts behind the fender? Between the outter and inner fender.

And, if you do this, do a write up, I've been thinking about doing it, but have no time right now.

#3 TeamCF

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 04:38 PM

Biggest thing will be the beam pattern. Most factory HID setups have a very sharp cutoff at the top. Keeps too much stray light from finding oncoming eyeballs. Your factory headlamp reflectors may not provide that.

Be nice if you could find someone who would let you "try" thiers in your car. (proly be near impossible) Or someone who has already done it with an identical car. (or at least a soob with the same lights)

Another thing you could look into is some of the HID driving and fog lights on the market. Quite a few companies are making them now. And the whole package is designed around the bulb. And if you find the company sites they may even have a photo of the beam pattern.


Good luck!

#4 Numbchux

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 05:06 PM

suberdave put HIDs in his wagon. search for his post.....lots of information.


the problem with EA82 headlights is the lense. the diffuser wastes a ton of light. so regardless of what bulb you put in there, most of the light will be wasted.

ALSO, HIDs really need to be behind clear lenses. and obviously EA82 subaru lenses are far from clear. prepare to blind everyone else on the road :mad:




I've been thinking about what it would take to make a clear lense for them (I would LOVE to have HIDs with angel eyes).....but have come up empty-handed

#5 bigjim5551212

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 06:56 PM

We sell a fair amount of HID. the best color is 6000k. Why, because its white, and not blue. The 4300 is ok, but its yellow. Now, what I would do is to scrap the 9004 housings and put in 4 rectangular headlights and use the H4 conversion type headlights. The light will be more superior.

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 07:20 PM

The general consensus is that the factory housings aren't suited to HID's. Better to either get a quality set of aftermarket driving lights, or to have one of us pick up some quality halogen bulbs from the US and ship them to you. There are some decent quality brands availible here.

GD

#7 simple monkey

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:16 PM

The general consensus is that the factory housings aren't suited to HID's.
GD

Correct. Most people intall H.I.D. bulbs into the stock housings. Our housings don't have anti-glare shields. Anti-glare sheilds pretty much cover the front half of the bulb and refract the light of the relfective part of the housing. This makes the light seem less bright to on coming traffic and create a more controlled beam. These are cheap and simple to obtain, I greatly encourage trying H.I.D.s as I have been interested in them for quite some time.
best of luck.

#8 Virrdog

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:29 PM

http://www.danielste...bs/Hid/HID.html

Read up. Both articles have lots of good information, especially the one on conversions.

#9 DaveT

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:40 PM

I agree with GD & the others with the details.

I did some looking a while back, found these:

http://www.suvlights...5a9ce0c2acbcb7b

They might even fit where the front turn signal lamps are - of course, those have to be relocated somehow...:-\

I'm thinking about building LED headlights that fit in place of the stock ones - what to use for the lens is the challenge...

#10 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:36 AM

Thank you for your Kind Replies!

Some time ago I`ve readed this Thread about H.I.D.`s on a Loyale:

http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=68913

I Think that the Loyale`s Headlamps wastes some of the Light... and H.I.D.`s will hurt other Driver`s eyes... I Don`t want to do that...

Beside of H.I.D.`s and High Power (100 W) 9104 / 9004 Bulbs... Is There another Option for Upgrade the Lights?

Thanks!

#11 Virrdog

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 04:16 PM

Have you done the relay mod on your headlights so that the ground on the bulb can go directly to the battery?

This helps cut out the voltage loss from all the tiny OEM power wires.

#12 michael appel

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:01 PM

No worries I will go to the pro shop by my house they sell angel eyes and other projector lights I will see what lights come close to matching up with our subies I have been wanting to go by there and check out the supply they have and what would match or I will disassemble a projector light I get for cheap and integrate it to my headlights and run h4 or h1 bulbs they give out pretty good light

#13 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:51 PM

Thank You!

I was doing some Research, I think -Just in Case I go H.I.D.- that 6000K is the Better Colour Temp.

What do you Think `bout conversion Kits like This:

http://www.amazon.co...13933159&sr=1-2

Because a Neighbor are selling some Car`s Parts very Cheap, and he offers me a 9004 cheap kit...

I need to Improve my Subie's Lights, but I`m Afraid to damage someone else`s Sight, and to Damage my Subie's involved Parts. I was thinking` about Trying the Conversion only on my Everyday Warrior: my White Wagon.

I have already read the Information Links that you Gave me... seems like to "Upgrade" to H.I.D.s are not an "Upgrade" and might be Harmful... ...I`m searching for Options.

What do you Think About?


#14 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:07 AM

... Is There another Option for Upgrade the Lights? ...


Don`t Misunderstood me ... I Want to Upgrade my Subie`s Lights, but I don`t want to end with a Subie Lookin` like This:


Posted Image

(I found this "Mutant" Subie some time ago, in Comayagüela City... Might be it can be looking Good if its Properly Painted... it seems to be an Unfinished Work... )


The only way I will adapt Something Non-Subaru to my Subie, is only if I am Really Sure that it will Work Fine, Look Fine and will Improve the Situation...

#15 joostvdw

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:25 AM

The original lenses are not up to the job for the HID. They are not clear lenses and will "spray" a part of the light up high, into the eyes of fellow motorist, something you do not want. Those conversion kits will not change that.

And since there are no proper clear lenses available for the older subarus (except XT that is) I would go for aux lights.

That mutant subaru did make me laugh though :-p

#16 Virrdog

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:43 PM

HID's will not make you see better. They will only make you THINK you see better. It will create hot spots and it will actually diminish your night vision because of how much your iris's will close in your eye.

Auxillary driving light high beams are probably your best choice.

Do you have a picture of your headlights? They also might have some haze on them that can be fixed.

#17 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 01:49 PM

HID's will not make you see better. They will only make you THINK you see better. It will create hot spots and it will actually diminish your night vision because of how much your iris's will close in your eye.


Okay, I'm going to have to slightly(and Yes I mean "slightly") disagree with you and risk catching flak:Flame: :dead: . HID lights have a higher lumen output than normal halogen lights. So in all fairness, they actually do provide more visible light and use less wattage to do it. Now as far as creating hotspots, yes I have to agree that if they are installed into housings that aren't made to harness HID light output into a uniform light pattern(e.g. 80's model Subaru headlight housings), they can cause problemos muchos, if you will, for your fellow drivers on the road. But just let it be known, just because older Subarus don't have the "correct" headlight housings & lenses doesn't mean that you are left in the dark when attempting to do an HID conversion. Now I must admit, I do own a vehicle with an HID conversion kit installed, that has headlights that weren't meant to have HIDs in them('97 Mazda Demio). I had to make ALOT of adjustments to get rid of glare and be able to use the majority(approx. 85-90%) of the light output. But for those willing to make the adjustments and possibly fabricate small pieces to manipulate the light and get it to go where you want it to, I don't see any problem with using them. But be forewarned that it can be a bit labor intensive & time consuming attempting to solve the light defraction riddle of your headlights.

Patrick

#18 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 01:58 PM

And just in case anyone wants to know, 5000K, 6000K, and 8000K are probably the best color temperature HIDs you can get, with 6000Ks(bluish-white appearance) being a little easier on the eyes. These are usually what you will find in factory HID setups as well. When you start to deviate from these choices, your visible light is decreased or they just become somewhat of a nuisance to other drivers.

Patrick

#19 Virrdog

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 07:19 PM

HID lights have a higher lumen output than normal halogen lights. So in all fairness, they actually do provide more visible light and use less wattage to do it.

Obvious and I don't think he has an electrical load problem, so I don't see how lower wattages help.

Now as far as creating hotspots, yes I have to agree that if they are installed into housings that aren't made to harness HID light output into a uniform light pattern(e.g. 80's model Subaru headlight housings), they can cause problemos muchos, if you will, for your fellow drivers on the road.

Absolutely correct. And you can screw yourself, especially with the way the conversions have to be aimed. You create intense hot spots right in front of you that diminish your ability to see down the road. :cool: This is great if you never plan on going over 35 in the dark.

But just let it be known, just because older Subarus don't have the "correct" headlight housings & lenses doesn't mean that you are left in the dark when attempting to do an HID conversion. Now I must admit, I do own a vehicle with an HID conversion kit installed, that has headlights that weren't meant to have HIDs in them('97 Mazda Demio). I had to make ALOT of adjustments to get rid of glare and be able to use the majority(approx. 85-90%) of the light output.

How exactly did you measure all this? I'll see your made up numbers and raise you testing done by people that have the expensive equipment to get real numbers:

http://dastern.torqu...1_HID_Retro.pdf

Notice that every spot on the chart where there is a maximum light output (to protect oncomers and/or driver) these HID retrofits are often 10x (some over 20x) too bright AFTER being readjusted! Some are over 25x times too bright before being adjusted with their equipment. Imagine trying to eyeball your light adjustments... You might be able to break the 100x mark if your lucky. :rolleyes:

But for those willing to make the adjustments and possibly fabricate small pieces to manipulate the light and get it to go where you want it to, I don't see any problem with using them. But be forewarned that it can be a bit labor intensive & time consuming attempting to solve the light defraction riddle of your headlights.

This is jibberish. Any adjustments to make the light go where you want is a misnomer, without the right measuring equipment you have no idea where it is going.


Don't get me wrong, everyone can do what they want. You are not required to follow my advice. But please stop all the bullcrap, these lights are for looks primarily. Using them for better night vision is misguided at best. Now you know that you will blind oncoming traffic dangerously no matter what you do... and you are possibly hindering your own night sight. All this before we even get into color rendering....

OEM lights have to pass rigorous tests. Get those working at their best first. If the plastic lenses are hazy or cloudy fix that first. If there is moisture inside the housing, get it out. If the light still seems inadequate upgrade the wiring, there are plenty of places that tell you how to do it. (http://www.danielste...ays/relays.html)

Still not good enough, add some auxillary driving lights (HID if have the cash). Packaged ready made and puts out a good light pattern.
Posted Image

#20 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 07:45 PM

Thank you for All Kind Replies, and for the Great Advice!

... ...I don't think he has an electrical load problem... ...


No, My subies don`t have any Electrical Problem.

... ... If the plastic lenses are hazy or cloudy fix that first. ...


They`re Glass and Both Headlamps are Like New (I Purchased two new Headlamps at the Dealer, some time ago... They where at 50% Discount :D )

... ...If there is moisture inside the housing, get it out. ...


No Moisture! :)

... ...If the light still seems inadequate upgrade the wiring... ...


Well... I Tried to Connect one of the Bulbs Directly to the Battery, and the Other is On Directly with the Car`s Wires... (with Engine On) and Both Looks Equal; so I Don`t Think my Subie`s Need Any Rewiring or Relay things.

Thank you for your Kind Replies...

I know that some USMB Friends have done the H.I.D. Conversion on Loyales Before... I will Like to know their Experiences with that on their Loyales...

Anyone? :confused:

#21 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 09:46 PM

[quote]
[quote name='Virrdog']How exactly did you measure all this? I'll see your made up numbers and raise you testing done by people that have the expensive equipment to get real numbers:
[/quote] This is a guesstimate. So yes, you are right. The figures that I stated are made up. But I have been adjusting headlights for years and I have seen many light output charts in my day, but I do understand automotive light patterns and know what I am doing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to properly adjust headlights(even with HID conversions), but it only takes one moron to screw the light pattern up. I AM NOT THAT MORON.


[quote]
This is jibberish. Any adjustments to make the light go where you want is a misnomer, without the right measuring equipment you have no idea where it is going.
[/quote]
Well apparently you don't know what you are talking about. Go back, do research(and I mean HANDS ON) so that you understand, and then come back and throw numbers and charts at me. As I said before, I have been adjusting lights for years, and manipulating the light pattern of my HIDs was a piece of cake for me. All I had to do is find where the light needed to be and make minor adjustments accordingly, until I achieved the proper beam pattern as a starting point. I then used the factory headlight adjustments to make the major adjustments(just like with the OEM halogens). Last time I got them checked, my eyes were perfect. So being able to actually see where the light is going is no big deal for me(and No, I am not trying to pat myself on the back. Just stating facts.) And I'm not trying to give other users false hope, nor do I claim to be an engineer. But it is possible to use HIDs in the older subes.

[quote]
Don't get me wrong, everyone can do what they want. You are not required to follow my advice. But please stop all the bullcrap, these lights are for looks primarily. Using them for better night vision is misguided at best.
[/quote]
If that is the case, then why are more and more automotive companies turning to HIDs? Why does the professional cycling industry use them? Why do numerous search and rescue teams around the globe use handheld HIDs? For Looks? I think not. For better night vision or for better light output in dark conditions? Yes! Well how about that? There is more visible benefits to HIDs, not just looks. By your logic, you are saying that all HIDs are bad, which is simply not the case. The brilliance of the light is as close to daylight(at least on 5000K models) as you can get. And if you will go back and read, I did state that older Subaru headlights are not the best platforms to install HIDs into much less the light housings on my Demio(I have 5000Ks). Why do you think that I stated that it was "LABOR INTENSIVE" to get the proper beam patterns? Perhaps you should partake of your own advice and "stop all the bullcrap" before you have all of the facts.

[quote]Now you know that you will blind oncoming traffic dangerously no matter what you do... and you are possibly hindering your own night sight. [/quote] When I checked them, they were just fine. I actually walked down the road approx. 100ft. stopping every 10ft. along the way(be proud, I actually measured with a tape measure and chalk), at night with my lights on, and the glare was minimal at all points. Was it a PITA? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes.



[quote]
Still not good enough, add some auxillary driving lights (HID if have the cash). Packaged ready made and puts out a good light pattern.
[/quote] You must remember, some states and even countries have laws prohibiting the number of auxiliary lights that you can have running on your vehicle while operating on a public road at any time. So to some, the addition of more auxiliary lights may become counter-productive.

Patrick

#22 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 10:24 PM

Not to change the subject, and I know I'm kinda late on this, but Loyale2.7Turbo, I saw one of your vids on Youtube.com a little while ago. That was very interesting seeing your car during it's transformation. Very Nice Work!:clap:

Patrick

#23 Virrdog

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 10:29 PM

Let me clarify: HID conversions installed in a housing intended for completely different types of lights are for looks primarily. Using them for better night vision is misguided at best.

Properly outfitted HID lamps in properly designed housings are great for many applications. :grin:

#24 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 10:35 PM

Let me clarify: HID conversions installed in a housing intended for completely different types of lights are for looks primarily. Using them for better night vision is misguided at best.


So in other words, you are saying that I installed HIDs purely for looks, or that everyone who installs them does it just for the looks? If that were the case, then why the heck is the light output 10x better than the highest wattage halogen light bulbs I could install? I think you theory and quest to be "Correct" in this discussion is a bit misguided. I'm not 100% correct and you're not 100% correct. So I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Patrick

#25 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 10:55 PM

Properly outfitted HID lamps in properly designed housings are great for many applications. :grin:


But I will agree with you on this!:headbang:

Patrick




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