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Got it out! Just pushed it back in by hand and rotated it a bit, and it came out by hand. Figure the circlip was just in a wonky position. Circlip and seal don't look buggered. And it's an NTN axle to boot.

Yeah you're right it's not really a seal retainer, can't drive out or yank out the seal until I get the stub and axle unstuck from the diff. Hub end is free.

Changing out front CV axle in 2008 outback auto, driver's side. Car is new to me. Has tripod style inner cup, pinless. Used a prybar against the diff to get the stub circlip moving but after that it didn't pop out like usual. Had to repeat prying and it moved out some more but now its pretty stuck and I don't want to pry any harder. Haven't tried tapping it back in yet. Stub is also stuck in the axle cup. Want to avoid the rats nest of unscrewing the seal retainer unless there are no other options. Although at this point the seal may be ripped if the circlip is buggered...

The frame rail is a rectangular tube of unibody that runs from front to back. Shown roughly mid picture. There are two. Runs parallel to the pinch weld. I have used both with jackstands. Always give the car a good shake before crawling under. Just my ritual. For rust belt cars I place a block of dense hardwood under the frame rail to spread out the load.

Polarity doesn't matter on the load side (contact closure) of a relay. Polarity does matter on the control side as some relays have a diode to suppress the back EMF when the control side opens.

Ok have to agree here. Have had less overall problems per 100k miles with my one 4EAT vs. numerous 5MT's. Still it's only 100-200k miles per clutch but yes high labor to change, either pull the engine or drop the transmission. Not sure how to avoid shaft bearing failure other than performing regular fluid changes and avoiding routine slamming into gear or routine shifting at too low rpm and abusing synchros. Center diff failures can be avoided with good tire protocol (all matching and relatively same circumference). For shaft bearing failure or center diff failure, these will cost you a salvage yard transmission. Too expensive to rebuild. Still worth keeping the car imho. To rule out front axle and center diff problems during a used-car test drive: Do low-speed figure-eight's in an empty parking lot and listen for wheels skipping or grabbing, or clunks from the drive train. For auto trans, consider adding an in-line magnetic filter and an auxiliary cooling radiator to keep fluid cleaner and cooler.

Consider going out of your way to look at the 2009 listed earlier in this thread for 5K. If your son is not into a manual transmission yet, Subarus are easy to learn on. You could learn on the way home. Manual's are more fun to drive and lower on maintenance costs. Easier to take apart too. Don't get overly sidetracked on minor issues like axles and miss a pending head gasket failure.

Installed the new aftermarket rear cat. Ran it without connecting it to the resonator pipe. Power restored! Loud! Now it makes sense compared to how quiet it was when I ran with the restricted rear cat disconnected...it was muffled without any mufflers attached, due to low, restricted flow. Hooked up the rest of the exhaust and it runs mostly normal, no codes, power restored. Stumbled a bit when rolling to a stop, assuming that it hasn't learned how to idle just yet. Going to clear the ECU anyway by disconnecting the battery, just to start fresh since its recent history includes operating with restriction. So about $750 later we have new aftermarket front and rear cat and both O2 sensors. Rest of exhaust is original. If I had to do this again I would start by disconnecting at the center spring flange and run it with open pipes. If its not loud enough to annoy the neighbors with the spring flange disconnected there is a restriction somewhere toward the engine. And then remove pipes one at a time toward the engine.

Not yet but will do if all else fails. So far all I have replaced is the front cat and both oxygen sensors.

Yes, I agree. Just suspected the R muffler due to a bit less exhaust pressure...maybe exhaust shops have calibrated pressure sensors to measure this stuff and speed up the diagnosis. Getting parts from Rock Auto. 2nd cat pipe is around $140. New cat is arriving Friday. On diagram below #19 Front cat #14 Rear cat #3 Resonator #8 / 9 Mufflers

Started with 2nd cat pipe (the rear), easier to just bolt it on and run with it disconnected at the spring flange to the resonator pipe. This isolates the resonator and both mufflers. Plus I'm skeptical that if I wrench on the muffler flanges they will fall apart, they look pretty rusty. Power definitely decreased compared to running with only the front cat. So now I have both the cat pipes connected (new aftermarket front cat and original rear cat) and I'm back to crappy power. Still haven't ruled out a problems farther downstream, but going to replace the 2nd and only remaining original cat. Also got a CEL, P0303 and P0304. Both misfire codes. Think these are from the flashing CEL yesterday. What's up with these delayed codes? My '97 OBW would misfire and flag a code immediately. Coolant temps didn't run a bit hotter than normal this time but could hear preignition.

Ok let's recap, starting with the anatomy of the exhaust system from the engine to the mufflers. 1. Front cat/manifold. Picture of degradation above, outlet side. No access to opposite side w/o bore scope. No obvious chunks or rattles when shaken. This section was removed completely and car had restored power. New aftermarket cat installed and connected to rest of original exhaust system. Power loss as before plus some weirdness that I think is explainable, below. 2. 2nd cat pipe. Unable to see any side of cat due to piping bends. This section was removed today. Car ran with aftermarket cat only. Power restored and no weirdness. 3. Resonator pipe with flanged y. Wired with coat hanger. Unconnected. 4. Muffler RH 5. Muffler LH So today I removed pipe #2. New aftermarket cat in place. Power restored. No stalling, flashing CEL, or other strangeness. No knocking sounds. I'm thinking that I have actual preignition when the obstructed part is in place due to increased cylinder temps. And the knock sensor picked it up and flashed the CEL. No codes thrown. I'm not sure that it should have flagged a code for knocking. Just my guess. Now whether the ECU is throttling back timing due to the knock and that is the reason for power loss, is unknown. So in the interest of keeping things simple, I want to focus on the restriction. So far #1 pipe is not the primary restriction. That leaves four other suspects. A. #2 cat pipe. Need a bore scope to visualize. Or maybe there is some other way to diagnose. B. #3 resonator pipe. Maybe there is a rusted baffle that is blocking flow. Have no idea how these things are built, just a guess. C. Either muffler. I kind of suspect the RH due to slightly less pressure felt on my hand at the tailpipe while running at 2-3k rpm. I'd rather not guess and start replacing parts willy nilly. Walker mufflers are $80 each aftermarket. Yes, they are original, 12 years old, and could go at any minute so not a wasted investment. Subaru Sakamoto mufflers are $270 each. The resonator pipe is about that also. I'm going to get a borescope so I can make some kind of educated decision... Love some input on this plan and thanks for hanging with me on this long winded post.

After my brief noisy run with restored power after basically running without any exhaust system at all the other day, we're back to more mysteries. Injected air into mufflers in an attempt to blow out particles, if any, trapped in the center pipe cat. Didn't see any residue at the outlet triangle flange far upstream. Installed new aftermarket exhaust manifold/front cat, no heat shields cuz they won't transfer over, with the new oxygen sensors. Rest of exhaust is original. Ran the new setup. Thought it had more power initially but things went downhill, back to crappy power but maybe just a smidge better. But wait, there's more. Now some new symptoms. During acceleration the CEL flashed rapidly on and off, on two separate occasions and then went out. Stalled twice during idle or coasting into a turn. On one occasion after it stalled, there was some weird shaking while cranking, a bit rough to start, but then it calmed down. Idle seemed intermittently low/rough. Could be due to resetting the ECU to clear a P0031 code that I got while running with both O2 sensors disconnected. Maybe the ECU was confused after initializing with an obstructed exhaust. Still running hot with pre-ignition pinging noises. Knock sensor is original. No codes. CEL only flashed, didn't stay solid. In the past I have had misfire codes on another subaru that were preceded by flashing CEL but they always flagged a code and had a solid CEL on afterwards. Going to drop the mid pipe cat next and run it. No O2 sensors that far back to mess with. I think I need to upgrade my code reader.

Picture is at the right side of engine, looking sideways. Follow the hose at the red arrow. Will go down to engine block, there is the PCV. This is a 2007, so will be a bit different on yours.

I haven't reconnected. My thought is if the cat is crumbling then even if I clear the obstructions with compressed air and solvent, it might leave me stranded in Iowa in the near future. Below is a picture of some ferrous, i.e. magnetic, crud that I found at the upstream oxygen sensor. If this stuff is coming from outside the exhaust system, my concern is a new cat will eventually become plugged.

Ran it with open exhaust manifold. Sprayed the MAF with contact cleaner. Power restored! Video of the loudness

After checking the plugs and compression I reinstalled the air intake snorkel. Didn't leave anything disconnected, afaik, but got P0102 and P0113 codes when I started it. P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) circuit is low P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input Cleared them and they didn't come back on short drive. Still low power as before. Then took the cat off for pics above. Just getting weirder before it gets better. I think on this car the MAF and intake air temp are one sensor on the snorkel hose by the air filter. Looks like I need a new front cat and maybe MAF sensor. Other than P0420 many months ago these are the first codes I have gotten in a while.

Front cat pic. Looks like it's degrading. Can't see other side without bore scope. Some loose material but no big chunks.

Bull pin always works for me. Will usually destroy the boot but you are replacing it anyway. It wedges into the gap between the pinch joint and the control arm. Keep the castle nut on, whack the end of the bull pin with a copper hammer and it pops the head of the ball joint out of the knuckle right out. 1-5/16" X 12" Standard Bull Pin klein-3259 Ordered from the tool barn...

Get a salvage alternator. 95 through 98 is a direct swap in. Flush the power steering with new fluid and then re bleed with wheels off the ground, 6 full turns right to left. Agree about ball joint. Also check both right and left lateral links, the plastic around the bushing can crack and have play and make a popping sound in turns. Moog makes a replacement.

if you're smelling coolant there's likely a leak somewhere. Replace the radiator. I've had good luck with Spectra premium at RockAuto. Cheap insurance.

EZ30 intake manifold vacuum for comparison Normally running vehicle. From idle up to 3500 rpm. Vacuum increases in EZ30, where the EJ253 rises, then drops after 2000 rpm. Going to drop the exhaust.

Chosen engine source: JDMracingmotors of Montreal JDM Legacy JDM 2000-2002 3.0L H6 EZ30 Engine video of compression test on youtube. all over 180 psi parts list from rock auto Stabilizer Bar Bushing MOOG K200635 pack of 2 $7 Front Stabilizer Bar Link MOOG K80693 #20420AA003 pair $27 ac delco oil filter $4 air filter $7 fuel filter $16 serpentine accessory belt ac delco $17 Screw on trans filter beck arnley $5 PCV valve $6 beck arnley fuel injector refurb kit (four seals) x6 $5 ea (from dealer $36) Pre-existing RH fuel rail vapor odor- could be hoses or seals at injector Retain fuel rails from stock, due to JDM having water-dirt contamination from weather exposure. Swap fuel injectors from JDM intake to stock intake. Replace all fuel rail hoses and filter hoses Raybestos 3/8" magnetic trans filter inline at transmission cooler add-on hose ID PCV hose 0.4" valve cover 0.5" head to intake 8mm fuel line 8mm (5/16") evaporator 1/4" power steering return 0.4" 3/8" Dealer parts Trans seal(s) leaking at CV axle right side, left side also? Replace both axle seals and o-rings. leaking oil at trans, suspect from seal(s) retainer ring, o-ring x2 806984040 $2 ea retainer ring, oil seal 806730031 $5 RH verify side retainer ring, oil seal 806730032 $5 LH verify side front differential oil drain plug gasket 803926090 PCV hose to valve 11815AB083 $37 valve cover gasket R 13270AA104 $25 valve cover gasket L 13272AA104 $25 valve cover spark plug gaskets x6 13293AA051 $8 ea exhaust manifold gasket x2 44011AE040 $6 ea exhaust donut gasket 44011AE031 $9 exhaust flange bolt at donut x2 44059AA010 $3 ea exhaust spring at donut x2 44044AA010 $4 ea exhaust flange bolt nut at donut x2 802008270 $2 ea exhaust flange bolt at muffler x2 010510307 $2 ea exhaust gasket at muffler 44011AE01A $3 exhaust flange bolt at muffler 902350001 qty 2 $2 water pipe hose, right angle, top, RH front 99078AA090 $6 water pipe hose, dog leg, top, front, LH 99078AA120 $8 water pipe hose, RA, throttle body, top, RH rear 807607251 $5 hose, water pipe hose, throttle body, top, 21204AA681 $10 hose, water pump bypass, at Tstat, straight, 807615030 $10 hose, water, at oil cooler, right angle, 99078AA110 $8 hose, water, at oil cooler, straight, 807611060 $4 hose, water, at Tstat, right angle, 807611071 $5 HOSE-HEATER,OUTLET, 72421AE02A $15 HOSE-HEATER,INLET, 72411AC020 $15 hose, vacuum, Intake manifold, right side, front, 99071AB361 $4 reuse: hose, vacuum, Intake, left side, front, 99071AB280 $13 or purchase generic hose such as: High Performance Silicone Vacuum Hose - 5 feet - 5/16" ID (.3125"|8mm) - Blue https://www.ebay.com/itm/263495230935?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true parts to refurb torque converter Housing OIL SEAL 806750060 Price:$6.51 Input Shaft O RING 806920070 Price:$0.84 Oil Pump Shaft RING-SEAL,A 31361AA000 Price:$8.74 Oil Pump Shaft CIRCLIP-INNER 805343020 Price:$2.43 Low pressure side power steering hose from hard pipe near airbox to plastic reservior is cracked. Power steering low pressure HOSE-RETURN 34611AE14A two types, either $17 or $70. Unsure which one I have. Replace with Gates power steering return hose. 3/8" ID. GATES 350010 (350020) Power Steering Return Four types of power steering return hose, suction side of reservoir Will keep existing hose for now, not leaking 34611AE23A HOSE-SUCTION $19 34611AE12A HOSE-SUCTION $38 34611AE07A HOSE-SUCTION $20 34611AE08A HOSE-SUCTION $24 CLAMP-HEATER PIPE 72057AA001 $2 gasket, thermostat 21236AA010 $3 reuse existing thermostat and rad hoses (replace at next coolant flush) valve cover hose to air box R side valve cover hose to air box L side 11815AB062 $17 gasket, EGR hard pipe x2 14719AA033 $5 ea donor is RHD: swap intake over (see notes) GASKET-INTAKE MANIFOLD x2 14035AA410 $13 leave head gaskets alone reseal timing cover with three bond 1217H (for 1280B) oil pan pickup o-ring 806919080 reseal oil pan with ultra grey oil cooler o-ring replace with dealer part reseal rocker valve covers with OEM gaskets and sealant recommended sealant three bond 1280B - discontinued by SOA Replaced by THREE BOND 1217H Part Number: SOA868V9610 Alternative: 3M™ Ultrapro™ High Temp Silicone Gasket 08672 Black 3 Oz replace spark plugs x6 with NGK PLFR6A11 $8 ea platinum WASHER,CYLINDER HEAD SEALING 10982AA000 Two on timing chain cover, replaced timing cover, crank pulley, oil seal 806738200 $5 bucket and shim valve inspect. Largely in spec. replace spark plugs transmission rubber mount 41022AE12B seems intact ************** Job notes *************** intake manifold ************** prior to pulling engine- removed intake manifold due to difficulty accessing 4 torque converter bolts. injectors and fuel rails remain attached to manifold. must remove all 6 injector electrical connectors...this is not mentioned in procedure. must also remove LH oxygen sensor mate that is fastened to a metal bracket in order to remove the injectors and leave the harness on the engine. removed bracket first due to difficulty with this step. Intake differences: vacuum line to brake on right side of JDM intake, strange square plug on L side. Could just run a longer vacuum line to the fitting...or swap intake over...I chose to swap. ...notes from subaruoutback.org... Brake booster connection has a nipple on one side and a plug on the other. About half the time I can get the two broke out and swapped. If not I just run a longer hose, and save the one-way valve made into the OEM hose. AC compressor is different. Alt and PS pump are the same. No other major stuff to swap. No need to swap intake manifolds. ...end of subaruoutback.org... *********** engine separation ************** advised to use the special tool p/n 498277200 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kent-Moore-498277200-Flywheel-Stopper-Subaru/372549661330?hash=item56bdb0b292:g:I2kAAOSwrmRcJVqM:sc:USPSFirstClass!37122!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0 Tool is a keeper for the torque converter, attached to the lower bolt hole for the starter. Otherwise torque converter can wiggle off the trans and come with the engine. This part is $130 on ebay. Some have made it themselves. Others have jury rigged something using ty-wrap, wire, or the alternator bolt and washers through a torque converter bolt hole. Part I made from 16 awg sheet metal bent on engine separation. The torque converter was easily pushed back in after the engine came out, but according to FSM, it needs to be around +0.1" offset from the trans bell housing. I measure it to around 0.25". So torque converter coming out. Not sure where the problem is. The oil pump shaft is seated on the converter well and the circlip is seated in the slots w/o obvious damage. Will reuse existing circlip. Possibly the input shaft was dislodged slightly. The input shaft came out when the torque converter was removed (easily). Has an o-ring that is degraded. Will replace. Reinstall input shaft into transmission. FSM states that it should be 0.197 - 0.217 offset from front of trans. I measure it at 0.204 so we're good. Oil pump shaft has a ring seal that is split, intentionally? Will replace. Oil seal will be replaced for good measure. Alternative, from USMB: When you get the bolts out of the TC and its free from the flexplate, take a big screwdriver or prybar and pry it back away from the flexplate. Should move back about 1/4" and disengage the pilot stub which will help keep the TC from sliding out when you separate the bellhousings. When you get the engine and trans separated about an inch, get a bolt that's about 3/4" longer than the width of the upper bellhousing. Get a nut and a fender washer to fit the bolt. slide the bolt into the top corner bellhousing bolt hole, put the box end of a large wrench, about 3/4", on the bolt, point the other end of the wrench towards the center stub of the TC. Slide the washer on, then the nut, then tighten it up. It doesn't need to be he-man tight. Just tight enough to keep the wrench from moving. Now as long as you didn't drag the TC out that far while trying to get the engine loose, it will stay seated properly until you've put the engine back in. images of timing cover internals https://www.flickr.com/photos/dbur971/sets/72157700601187324/ ************ transmission seal retainers *************** R side first Degreased externals. Removed retainer lock. Marked retainer. Removed with channel lock pliers and PVC tool. 7 turns to remove. Tapped out oil seal with rubber mallet. Removed bearing. Degreased. Reinstall new oil seal and o-ring. Reinstall bearing after coating with gear oil. Reinstall retainer 7 turns to hand tight. Used pliers to turn 1-2 more teeth to line up with mark. Reinstall retainer lock 25 ft-lb. L side next Degreased externals. Removed retainer lock. Marked retainer. Removed with channel lock pliers and PVC tool. 7.25 turns to remove. Tapped out oil seal with rubber mallet. Removed bearing. Degreased. Reinstall new oil seal and o-ring. Portion of differential popped out and was easily reinstalled with some wiggling. Reinstall bearing after coating with gear oil. Reinstall retainer 7 turns to hand tight. Used pliers to turn 3 more teeth to line up with mark. Rather tight for last tooth. Periodically rotated shaft during tightening. Shaft not overly light after retainer installed. ****************** A/C compressor ***************** swap old unit onto JDM engine. JDM has lines cut. Will be spare. Existing harness does not match JDM connectors. ***************** alternator ***************** JDM will be spare. Reinstall old unit. ****************** power steering *************** JDM will be spare. Reinstall old unit. Old cradle fits JDM engine. left side oxygen sensor cable cut. swap harness over L side knock sensor missing, harness cut. Swap sensor over. small ventilation hoses on front of valve cover to intake piping L side loose/cracked. Replace. R side seems ok Replace fuel lines on intake as needed Gates 5/16" 27348 Barricade MPI Fuel Line Amazon, 15' $41 Fuel evaporator vapor return line from intake to firewall is rotting, replaced with yellow 1/4" tygon tubing, fuel rated Tygon F-4040-A PVC Fuel And Lubricant Tubing, 1/4" ID, 3/8" OD, 1/16" Wall Replaced PCV valve. Sealed with ultra grey. Note that JDM valve did not seem to be sealed. Torque converter notes: Post submitted to USMB. See separate post of the ugliness. Tapped oil pump shaft oil seal in using a punch to try to gain some increased travel on torque converter. Ended up driving it in too far. Tried to pull it back with a slide hammer but tore the seal. Removed with slide hammer. Bought and installed new seal. Drove it in about 0.05" past lip this time to avoid covering oil access hole at 3pm position. Reinstall torque converter w/o issues on 2nd time. Separation is 0.15". Plenty of space between flex plate and converter w/o impact after engine reinstalled. Install 4 bolts, replace cover. Then install intake manifold. Flex plate: Installed while on engine stand. Used a 3/8" extension to brace flex plate against engine case. Torque to 60 ft. lb. Grease torque converter center stub and flex plate receiver. No bearing here. exhaust manifolds: scotch brite and orbital sand with 60 grit. spray gaskets with copper sealant. Leave flange prior to resonator as is. loose heat shield repaired with extra piece of sheet metal placed between shield and exhaust pipe. new donut gasket placed. front differential gear oil 80w90 @engine swap 3-2019 used walmart brand. Poured in with 1 qt container with hose/nozzle. Added about 1.25 qt. Crank bolt: Method to install in a manual trans does not work (locking brakes). No way to lock the torque converter, just spins. Should have tightened it while on engine stand when installing flex plate. Used a combination of 3/8" extensions and a large bolt to hold the crank pulley vs. the center bolt. Torque to 160 ft. lb. Took pictures of the madness. Might have stressed the idler pulley bearing on the A/C bracket. Engine install: After much trouble attempting to level out the engine on the hoist, which was pretty unsuccessful, install goes fairly smoothly anyway. Engine was listing to the right side and not tipped back to match the transmission. After a lot of jockeying to line up the two lower engine studs on the transmission bell housing, the engine was raised on the hoist effectively tipping it back. It slid in fairly far on the studs, and then a bit of wiggling and pressure at the 12:00 position got the two pins started. Had sanded and greased the pins prior. Install four upper bolts. Can't find the short bolt on the top, so use a power steering bracket bolt instead. Install four long bolts in lower portion of bell housing, plus two nuts on the lowest studs. Opted NOT to reseal trans pan. Will monitor fluid levels. Pan accessible with exhaust installed so will not have to drop exhaust for reseal. First start: cranked a long time w/o firing. Likely no fuel in rails. Cycled ign on and off 5-6 times to build up fuel pressure. Started and ran at low rpm for a short while, some chuffing and shaking/vibration of engine block that lessened. (In retrospect this shaking is likely due to bad O2 sensor wiring on RH, see below). Had coolant funnel installed. Did not get heat in cabin until temp had climbed quite a bit, but eventually had heat. Raced the engine 5-6 times then held at 2k rpm. Was checking trans fluid also so not a classic cooling system burp. Lower hose cold. Eventually cooling fans came on solid and temp climbing to 206. Shut down and capped. Next day topped off coolant, restarted. Heat in cabin came early. Raced engine as directed. Heat in lower hose, cooling fans cycling normally with temp dropping as expected. Shut down. Next start was later than evening, did a test drive with good cooling results, a bit of gurgling. Still fighting trans fluid levels. Auto trans shifted will on short test drive. Also did a burn in on new front brake pads, up to 40 mph with braking not to full stop, 5-6 times. Getting P0031 which is R side heater circuit on front sensor. O2 sensor itself is 1.6 ohms on tinned leads, open on gold leads. Suspect the heater ckt is on the tinned leads, which is normal reading. O2 sensors have 50k and 80k miles each. R side connector has two pins pushed out that are for heater ckt. Push pins back. Restart, now getting P0131 code. Engine idling rough. Swapped a spare O2 sensor on RH. Same P0131 code. Bought two new Denso O2 sensors from rock auto. New sensor on RH has same code. So now presuming there is a fault in the wiring harness. Either pinched something when installing the intake or the donor JDM engine harness had a preexisting fault. Found broken wire in RH engine harness connector, E47 on wiring diagram. Black wire, part of signal pair to ECM. Buzzed out to B21 connector at firewall. Harvest O2 connector from old engine harness and splice into new harness. Turns out that the signal pair is wired backwards from the drawing. Left as is. No more CEL codes. Three independant O2 sensor-related wiring harness problems with JDM donor harness (LH connector cut off, RH heater pins backed out, broken signal wire). Statistically, of all the potential problems with engine swap to have this type of concentration is bizarre. Transmission fluid: Having trouble getting trans fluid level measurement. Seems to be high, then low. Could be fluid residue getting on stick. Have already added about 4-5 quarts. From USMB: The only way I can get a reading is basically vehicle cold, start, shift through all gears on shifter, put in park pull stick, wipe, reinsert, (a few times, to get excess off stick) Then slowly insert stick, then slowly remove and look at both sides of stick holding it in front of the headlight. It should generally be somewhere in the cold range then. Soob says check it warm/hot but sheesh I just see fluid everywhere on all three soobs if I try it that way. Added about 2 additional quarts of wal-mart dex merc. Finally reading at low end of cold level on stick with engine running, after shifting through all gears, while cold. Next cold start still reading low, so added about 1/2 qt. Now reading just above high end cold.